Hucking on Dukes

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

OK....lots of information here on Dukes. Yeah, it feels bomber. Yeah it has a DIN to 16. Yeah, it has a low stack height.

One thing I haven't heard much of yet (possibly due to still early season conditions) is how does this thing huck? Would anybody have any qualms about launching big on a pair of Dukes?

I'm not asking because I'm about to launch 8 bazzilion footers in the BC miles away from any help if something went wrong.

I'm asking because it's more of a quiver question. If I were to get a pair of Dukes, they'd go on a pair of skis that could possibly be used in a big mountain comp depending on the conditions of the venue. And with a big mountain comp comes...hucking.

So....with a DIN to 16, I'm not worried about a prerelease. But is there any chance of insta-walk happening with a bad landing? Say you land totally hottubbin backseat tailslap...will this thing stay in alpine mode? What if you land way to far forward.....will the alpine mode lock hold without launching you over the tips? Any issue of pre-release concerns? Something I'm missing?

I'm thinking of putting a Duke on a potential competition ski. This ski would be used a TON in bounds, sidecountry, backcountry, and it would be used in comps. Am I crazy for thinking about doing this?

[dirtybryan]

I'm not a huck master, but to me I think it comes down to fact there is still a lot of plastic on these things.

[Bizarro-Squatch]

^^^
That is the only failure point. I suppose you could shear the pin where it tours...again you're talking about plastic failure. As for the alpine lock, the method is pretty huck-proof. the materials are the only point where it might break down.

R, have you fondled a pair? The boot in the binding keeps the switch from flipping (you have to get out of the binding to change from walk to ski). It is possible to break the plastic rails the binding engages on in ski mode, and maybe shear the pin that allows the toe to pivot, but that's it, afaik.

edit: I've heard some talk that you have to turn up the din a notch or two to get "alpine" release values. So if you set things at 15, it may only be 13ish.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'm not a huck master, but to me I think it comes down to fact there is still a lot of plastic on these things.

That's what I'm worried about. Having a blown up the heel pieces on a pair of Z12's last year, I'm very cautious about plastic bindings these days.....hence my questions.

R, have you fondled a pair?

Just very briefly in a shop. Didn't really click a boot into it and look closely enough at the mechanisms. My first impression on my quick fondle was "hmmm...maybe this is as good as everyone says it is". But then I started thinking about plastic....and remembering the feeling in my stomach for not using a burly binding when the dust settled and realized I had destroyed the Z12's on my comp skis with about 2 hours before my KW Finals run....and am having second thoughts of course.

I really want Dukes...because I hate my old Freerides on my current BC setup. And I know the ski I want to put the Dukes on, and it happens to be the same ski I'd compete on. And I'm not going to buy two pairs of skis (i.e. one with Dukes and one with some burly comp binding) 'cause that's just freaking ridiculous.

[Toby]

One thing I haven't heard much of yet (possibly due to still early season conditions) is how does this thing huck? Would anybody have any qualms about launching big on a pair of Dukes?

Maybe. They have a lot more plastic than I was expecting, which kinda pissed me off at first. But they seem solid once they're mounted. I'm actually pretty impressed with the engineering that's gone into them. E.g. the brake slides on rails when you swap it out, and when it's screwed in it adds to the solidity of the heelpiece.

So....with a DIN to 16, I'm not worried about a prerelease. But is there any chance of insta-walk happening with a bad landing? Say you land totally hottubbin backseat tailslap...will this thing stay in alpine mode? What if you land way to far forward.....will the alpine mode lock hold without launching you over the tips? Any issue of pre-release concerns? Something I'm missing?

No chance of insta-walk unless you rip out the heel track or explode something in the toe and then slide backwards (they'd have to be very broken for this to be able to happen). Or maybe if you ripped the heel rails that the heel track slides on. No idea about the pre-releasing, time will tell. People have mentioned it tests lower than it's set (in the heel?) but IIRC that might be a forward pressure issue??

I'm thinking of putting a Duke on a potential competition ski. This ski would be used a TON in bounds, sidecountry, backcountry, and it would be used in comps. Am I crazy for thinking about doing this?

I hope you do. I'd feel more confident on mine if you couldn't blow yours up.

[Toby]

I really want Dukes...because I hate my old Freerides on my current BC setup. And I know the ski I want to put the Dukes on, and it happens to be the same ski I'd compete on. And I'm not going to buy two pairs of skis (i.e. one with Dukes and one with some burly comp binding) 'cause that's just freaking ridiculous.

Be good if you could put inserts on the ski and switch between Dukes and Jesters (if they're any good). Maybe less failure potential (not saying the Duke has lots, just sayin').

[dirtybryan]

Not that I've ridden them, only fondled, but for me I tend to break bindings only after I've already come out of them and the binding gets mashed in the crash. I.e. boot releases and then my boot then comes back down on the binding in the crash. Thats how I see myself breaking a weak point. Thats the reason I gave the sort of "well its plastic" because now everywhere is pretty much vulnerable in this scenario.

[Bizarro-Squatch]

Be good if you could put inserts on the ski and switch between Dukes and Jesters (if they're any good). Maybe less failure potential (not saying the Duke has lots, just sayin').

Trust me, you don't want to do this.

[addict]

FWIW, I broke a few fritchis, prolly from the result of hucking. The thing that I repeatedly broke (besides about 5 pairs of brakes) was the bar under foot. When I hucked on them, the ski would flex, the bar under my foot would then bend. The plastic held up ok, the titanal (not to be confused with titanium, titanal is a titanium alloy AFAIK) kept bending, one severely so.

My old plastic toe wing sally DR9 equipes the same thing. The metal broke from heel torque, the plastic held up. I think the duke high density plastic will be solid, but the bar that runs under your foot will be what takes a lot of strain. Make sure your comp ski doesn't like to flex AT ALL underfoot.

I think I might have 916s and dukes on 2 pairs of the same ski (one beat up) myself, though being both touring/hucking orientated I'm not sure......

[laseranimal]

Be good if you could put inserts on the ski and switch between Dukes and Jesters (if they're any good). Maybe less failure potential (not saying the Duke has lots, just sayin').

that'd be a bunch of inserts as the Jester/Duke are two different patterns

[Toby]

^ Heh. Whoops.

addict, flex should be OK as long as the plastic isn't bent too much. The heel can slide on the heel track while locked down, which will limit longitudinal stresses on the track (i.e. it won't be putting pressure against a fixed heel piece). I'm imagine the ski had to flex an awful lot before the track bent enough to affect its integrity.

Didn't you break your Dukes laseranimal? I'm sure someone mentioned it recently, thought it was you. If so, what happened?

[addict]

addict, flex should be OK as long as the plastic isn't bent too much. The heel can slide on the heel track while locked down, which will limit longitudinal stresses on the track (i.e. it won't be putting pressure against a fixed heel piece). I'm imagine the ski had to flex an awful lot before the track bent enough to affect its integrity.

Yep, but the fritchis move in much the same way, prolly even to greater degree, yet they still bent. Dukes seem stronger from my ltd experience with yours, but the proof will be in the hucking.

[StroupSkier]

I'd take the Freerides off you old AT setup and put the Dukes on them and a pair of 916/920s on the new ski.

I'm sure the Dukes are more bomber than Freerides or any other AT binding out there, but I don't think putting them on a competition ski is a good idea.

While I have yet to mount mine up, the locking mechanism is still made of plastic, which over time will wear down to the point of failure. While it may be inconvient to have the binding in insta-tele mode in the backcountry, I would think the potential injury risk would be by far less there than sending a 40 footer in a comp and loosing the ski on impact.

Maybe I am wrong, but I just don't trust plastic.

[marshalolson]

i'd say that aside from pure conjecture, its really just too early to say.

give me 10-12 more " of base, and i'll let you know though

[squirrelmurphy]

Sounds like you're asking for trouble you don't need putting dukes on comp skis. Replace freerides with dukes, save hucking 40' to hardpack for 916s.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Sounds like you're asking for trouble you don't need putting dukes on comp skis. Replace freerides with dukes, save hucking 40' to hardpack for 916s.

yeah I kinda think I'm asking for trouble too, which is kinda why I started this thread.

Reading through all the Duke reviews you come across a lot of comments along the lines of "the Duke is really as burly as a 916", or "the Duke really is equivalent to a solid alpine binding" and similar crap like that......but really....is it? In some cases, I guess yes it is, but in other scenarios......I guess we'll have to wait for Marshal to get some deeper landings

[snoboy]

If you are asking this question - then isn't the answer "Don't do it!?" If you have any doubt in your mind about the binding isn't that going to f&*k with your head in comp?

You would have to rip up the heel track, plus the toe track or the walk/ski mode mechanism to get insta tele wouldn't you? The toe locks down as well, I think.

[squirrelmurphy]

Even then though, i saw pictures (maybe video too?) of your Kodak huck in the Kwood comp last year. Nothing about that said soft landing.

Just out of curiosity, this comp ski is a 192 bro, no? 195?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Even then though, i saw pictures (maybe video too?) of your Kodak huck in the Kwood comp last year. Nothing about that said soft landing.

yeah there were photos here of that, and it's in powdork's crash compilation vid of the KW comp that's on youtube, and it snuck into Linescore as well. It was definitely not soft

Just out of curiosity, this comp ski is a 192 bro, no? 195?

It would either be a 192 or a 188. And either ski I would theoretically use in a comp depending on the conditions.

[lemon boy]

$.0002:

If you're going to do a bunch of comps then likely the duke shouldn't be on your comp ski and you should have a dedicated comp ski/binding.

If you're just doing one comp a year then putting them on ,makes sense b/c you'll likely be using it a lot for what it's intended and only once for anything at the edge of their design. Besides, they're more likely to blow up on a finale air than in the billygoat portion of your performance and finale airs are prone to breaking shit anyway. And you of all people are likely to rehearse some finale airs anyway and already know if they're not up to par well before the comp.

[ptavv]

Having broken a pair of Nx21s, and then gone out and hucked some small-to-medium cliffs on my Dukes on my first in bounds day, I can say they feel completely bomber.

I've had them come off once (not while hucking). The release was smooth and necessary.

I've landed way way in the back seat (and broke my thumb doing so) and they stayed on. All in all, I feel 100% confident on my Dukes after 4 BC days on them and 1 in bounds day. Not a lot, but I haven't seen or felt anything that would shake my confidence.

All the speculation that the plastic rails can break is pretty ridiculous IMO. The heel cup for Nx21s rotates on a metal rod that goes through two plastic eyelets. There is plastic in every binding (although 916s are pretty damn burly) and a possible way for them to fail.

I think the chances of shearing the plastic plate that the Duke locks into are damn near zero though. It's heavy duty injection molded plastic, and it's not hollow. It's got plenty of structural strength to not fail from the stresses. The toe pin in the Duke shearing? Far less likely than the Nx21 failure I mentioned.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

$.0002:

If you're going to do a bunch of comps then likely the duke shouldn't be on your comp ski and you should have a dedicated comp ski/binding.

If you're just doing one comp a year then putting them on ,makes sense b/c you'll likely be using it a lot for what it's intended and only once for anything at the edge of their design. Besides, they're more likely to blow up on a finale air than in the billygoat portion of your performance and finale airs are prone to breaking shit anyway. And you of all people are likely to rehearse some finale airs anyway and already know if they're not up to par well before the comp.

good points in there for sure^

just doing 2 - 3 comps this year.

I think I'm leaning towards putting them on the 188's. Reason being, unless conditions are extremely bulletproof, in all likelihood I'd compete on the 192 Fats. Plus the 188 is more of a touring ski anyway (when compared to the 192) so that alone is a reason to mount Dukes on the 188's.

[Buster Highmen]

AXIOMUS MAXIMUS: In software, never, ever install the first version.

Whether that can be extended to touring bindings to be used in comp situations, is left to the reader as an exercise.

[Odin]

My binding needs a firmware revision!

[The Dad]

Tell you what, Ty. I've got a pair of 188s being mounted with Dukes as I type. You're welcome to give them a whirl, including hucks.