Lukas Oldenburg

[Rideski]

LARIMER COUNTY – The Sheriff's Office says a skier buried by an avalanche was hospitalized Sunday.

The Larimer County Sheriff's Office and other organizations responded to an area known as the Hot Dog Bowl, southeast of Highway 14, around 2:30 p.m.

Before rescue crews arrived, the skier's friends were able to dig him out and resuscitate him. He was airlifted to Medical Center of the Rockies. His name and condition were not immediately released.

The following organizations responded: Larimer County Sheriff's Office Emergency Services, Larimer County Sheriff's Office Emergency Services, Larimer County Search and Rescue, Poudre Canyon Quick Response Team, Jackson County Ambulance and Air Life.

[GoldenBear]

can we please be careful. It is obvious that the snowpack is shitty and we need to play it safe with all this snow. WTF were they thinking.

[MrZach]

can we please be careful. It is obvious that the snowpack is shitty and we need to play it safe with all this snow. WTF were they thinking.

Luckily, they were thinking about avy safety/victim recovery - otherwise there would have most likely been a fatality. From Powderbuzz:

As many of you know there was a slide at Hotdog today. I just got off the phone with a friend who confirmed that it was his group who was hit by the slide. The group was traversing at treeline underneath the large open bowl that faces east (or northeast). The entire bowl slid from the ridge and was estimated to be three feet deep. One person was burried. He was found in a few minutes and was then dug out. He was not breathing and didn't have a pulse. He was revived with CPR and ultimately evacuated by helicopter and is still in the hospital.
This is all I know right now, I'm sure more info will become available in the coming days. I declined an offer to ski with these guys last night, so I'm feeling "it could have been me" right now.

The victim is currently at Medical Center of the Rockies and is still on a ventilator, but is looking good (per a member of the party).

I hope you come out OK, Luke!

[Lurch]

They made a bad decision going out yesterday but it looks like they were on the ball with recovery and CPR.

[smitchell333]

Scary stuff. Hope the guy is OK.

Cameron has a couple areas frequented by the Ft Collins crowd. I've seen a steep windloaded bowl gangbanged by 10 or 12 skiers on a day with considerable danger when we were just touring in the trees due to the danger.

[soylent green]

Hot Dog bowl slides before anything else at Cameron. (Pintail gully might slide more.) Its a knob at the head of a wind tunnel valley that loads into a large terrain trap. The avalanche path runs several hundred feet into some old growth. The ski run is 6 turns tops. That thing always makes me think twice. BTW for all who think the Monkey bowls are always safe look at this from Saturday.

[summit]

A good reminder that CPR and first aid is part of the backcountry safety toolchest for when everything else goes to hell for whatever reason...

Statistically, that guy's survival is an anomaly because of his burial depth.

[murph]

Report is up on CAIC under Accidents.

[Ireallyliketoski2]

Wow, lucky, glad that everyone is doing OK.

This also illustrates the importance of traveling in a group of at least 3. Since CPR isn't usually enough to actually restart a heart, it's important to have someone to go for help while the other can continue with the CPR.

[berko]

Went up there today to check out the slide. Sorry no pics.

Sobering amount of snow in the depo zone. Especially for, as solyent green says, such a short run. My pit showed an 8" fist hardness slab on top of ~10" of sugar. Columns either failed immediately or with wrist taps.

Wind was howling today.

[summit]

This also illustrates the importance of traveling in a group of at least 3. Since CPR isn't usually enough to actually restart a heart, it's important to have someone to go for help while the other can continue with the CPR.

This is a very good point.

CPR doesn't restart the heart. CPR is to sustain the brain and recharge the heart while waiting for advanced measures (electrical defribrillation, pacing, various cardiac drugs, etc) to restore functional rhythm, pressure, and cardiac output. Suffice to say, CPR buys time.

If they truly come back to breathing on their own without an AED or ALS measures, what you may often see is just the act opening and maintaining the airway solving the problem. Also, less commonly, but more commonly than CPR leading to a save, rescue breathing will bring the person to a better state (the heart was still going even if imperceptible to the rescuer). This is a more commonly seen save with Triple-H Syndrome often seen in avalanche victims who are not breathing for reasons other than trauma.

Ultimately, this is all part of your CPR training as far as implementation. I agree, a group of three is a better idea, but please note that one-rescuer CPR sucks ass (so does 2 rescuer CPR, but it sucks less). I think that 3-4 is the perfect BC group size for many reasons.

[goldenboy]

A couple of thoughts...

1- I don't think that enough people who spend a fair bit of time in the bc have enough medical training. Everybody does their avie courses, but few do a wilderness first aid or WFR.

2- The CAIC report was kind of hard to understand (1st draft), but I got the idea that everyone was still skinning up, not skiing down. Anybody else get that idea?

[6.ways.till.sunday]

I heard on the news he is still in unconscious.
good thing they had they're beacons and such.
could have been over right there.

[summit]

A couple of thoughts...

1- I don't think that enough people who spend a fair bit of time in the bc have enough medical training. Everybody does their avie courses, but few do a wilderness first aid or WFR.

2- The CAIC report was kind of hard to understand (1st draft), but I got the idea that everyone was still skinning up, not skiing down. Anybody else get that idea?

I agree 100%. IKAR recommends everyone have BLS training. I don't understand why Avi I courses don't have an extra day for CPR/WFA cert that already trained persons could opt out of.

2. I got that impression as well (that they were still ascending). I found it interesting that CAIC didn't give the burial depth.

could have been over right there.

Depending how this turns out, that might have been Cheaper-Faster-Better. Hopefully he pulls through without becoming a veggie.

[murph]

They were still skinning up. The burial depth was roughly two meters.

[summit]

They were still skinning up. The burial depth was roughly two meters.

that's what the newspaper said for burial depth... do you have a more authoritative source?

[Rideski]

I don't think that enough people who spend a fair bit of time in the bc have enough medical training. Everybody does their avie courses, but few do a wilderness first aid or WFR.

Agreed. I had some training long ago, and it might come to me in a pinch, but certainly not on the tip of my tongue.

Sobering to see this so stinkin early. I hope he pulls through.

[Trackster366]

that's what the newspaper said for burial depth... do you have a more authoritative source?

He heard it from me, and I was one of the two who dug him out. Bottom of his boots were roughly 5-6 ft down and he was buried upside down in a crouched position.


-L

[summit]

He heard it from me, and I was one of the two who dug him out. Bottom of his boots were roughly 5-6 ft down and he was buried upside down in a crouched position.


-L

L,

First, I really hope that your buddy pulls through.

Second, good job on your rescue and patient care. As I mentioned above, it is amazing that your buddy is alive. It greatly due to your rescue efforts.

Third, may I please ask you some questions? I completely understand if you don't want to answer some or all of these:

Was he breathing upon recover? Did he have a palpable pulse? Was there snow in the airway? Was there any trauma?
How long before ALS arrived?
What was the consistency of the debris you had to dig through?
Did you experience warning signs prior to the avalanche?
What equipment did you guys have?

Best Wishes

[Trackster366]

L,

Third, may I please ask you some questions? I completely understand if you don't want to answer some or all of these:

Was he breathing upon recover? No

Did he have a palpable pulse? No

Was there snow in the airway? No

Was there any trauma? No

How long before ALS arrived? maybe an hour - hour and a half

What was the consistency of the debris you had to dig through? Fairly fine, not set-up
Did you experience warning signs prior to the avalanche? No

What equipment did you guys have? Beacons, Probes, Shovels on everybody

Best Wishes,
-A

Glad to answer any others...trying to keep the heresay minimized

[summit]

L,

Thank you for answering my questions!

Did you feel your avi safety gear performed adequately?
What amount of medical training did your group members have?
What medical supplies did you carry? Did you feel it was adequate?
How and when was outside help summoned?

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Aside: This accident seems like a perfect example of why we've all been saying 1.8m in-shovel-handle-probes are not a suitable piece of avi safety gear. If these folks had been stuck with such a short probe, it would have been essentially useless.

[Rideski]

Hey Trackster, good luck mang. You may not know Summit is in the "helping fallen comrades biz"*, hence his inquisitiveness; it's all honest curiosity.

(*or whatever his real title or job description is)

[Trackster366]

L,

Thank you for answering my questions!

Did you feel your avi safety gear performed adequately?

Certainly, we were on top of his position with a minute or two. The only difficult thing was how deep he was buried. closest we could get was 2.0M before we started digging/probing

What amount of medical training did your group members have?
I have had formal CPR training before. The other guy involved is a former ski patroller with previous EMT certification

What medical supplies did you carry? Did you feel it was adequate?
I don't know if we could have used any medical supplies, I only carry a small backpacker one. The most crucial things we had was a down sleeping bag and multiple handwarmers that we used to keep him warm. We had extra clothes and gloves as well. We used most of our extra clothes to stuff into the sleeping bag to pad him and keep him warm. The extra gloves helped because I managed to lose one of mine in the recovery process and got a pretty good case of bite on 3 of my fingers. The sleeping bag was absolutely key, why did he have it in his pack? who knows...but I would put money on the fact that that is the main reason why he's still alive.

How and when was outside help summoned?
After he was revived and in "stable" condition, we both moved him down the hill into the trees away from the slide area and out of the wind. Once I was confortable with our position, I stayed with the victim while the other guy skiied out. I wanted to keep busy while waiting for help, so I pulled the victim down as far down the trail until I was too tired. Once the other guy reached the parking lot, he got a volunteer to bring a tarp up from the back of my pickup, and he flagged down 2 cars who went to call boxes. Guy with the tarp met me about same time the helo was overhead and it wasn't too much longer until rescuers were on scene.

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Aside: This accident seems like a perfect example of why we've all been saying 1.8m in-shovel-handle-probes are not a suitable piece of avi safety gear. If these folks had been stuck with such a short probe, it would have been essentially useless.

Hope thats clear enough for ya, been a long day.

[Ermine]

Glad to answer any others...trying to keep the heresay minimized

No more questions from me, and I know it's a PITA, but didja fill out one of these and send it in?

http://www.avalanche.org/~research/guidelines/
(Avalanche accident reporting form)

[Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo]

here is an article for anyone who hasn't read it yet, http://www.coloradoan.com/apps/pbcs....TOMERSERVICE02

edit: I didn't read this with all of Tracksters responses, so the article may be pointless.