Teton Conditions, 07/08...no noise.

[rideit]

Please post your observations.
Thank you.

www.jhavalanche.org

Check out the 'Summaries' page for the complete rundown.

My obs:
I went out and hiked Targhee in October.
There was tons of snow, and it was very stable.
I rode both west facing (all new snow) and N. facing aspects, which had some older snow, but perfect adhesion/bonding.
Then it got warm, and south facing aspects completely melted off, leaving a bunch of rapidly decomposing snow on north and N.E. aspects.
I have not gone since, due to this situation.
I did not go and measure the crystals or dig a pit, I didn't feel the need to...it is fairly obvious (to me) that we are looking at a repeat of last season in terms of unstable surface snow. I hope to be proven very wrong.
That's all I gots.

[schwerty]

I'll post some thoughts when I hang up the fly rod and it starts snowing!

[SuperGaper]

Just here to cunt this thread up!

[rideit]

Just here to cunt this thread up!

ATTABOY! There's the spirit!

[MuleSkinner]

It should be interesting to see how this all turns about - keeping my fingers crossed that we don't get a persistent weak layer....

[SuperGaper]

And all through the night visions of 8 foot crowns on Cody and No Name danced through our heads!

[MuleSkinner]

I took the brown dog up Cache at lunch - big surface hoar crystals on top on the 1/2 inch on the ground.

[schwerty]

I took the brown dog up Cache at lunch - big surface hoar crystals on top on the 1/2 inch on the ground.

Did you see UAN's pic from yesterday?
If not... http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101393

[homemadesalsa]

Out my window and on the webcam it is warm and windy- I wonder if that surface hoar is getting knocked over and melted down? If not it is getting a wind slab on top of it.

Anyone out today? I have to drive over the pass wed am- anyone want to meet for a short tour? a run in avalanche if it's windy, up the boot pack if not. Shwerty I'll meet you up there and get bindings as well (or somewhere on the way to the airport)?

salsa

[MuleSkinner]

Out my window and on the webcam it is warm and windy- I wonder if that surface hoar is getting knocked over and melted down?

Hopefully.

Schwerty - thanks for pointing that picture out. I missed it yesterday.

[upallnight]

Out my window and on the webcam it is warm and windy- I wonder if that surface hoar is getting knocked over and melted down? If not it is getting a wind slab on top of it.

Anyone out today? I have to drive over the pass wed am- anyone want to meet for a short tour? a run in avalanche if it's windy, up the boot pack if not. Shwerty I'll meet you up there and get bindings as well (or somewhere on the way to the airport)?

salsa

the bootpack was bony yesterday; i'm probably going to check it out later today and make a call whether to head north or south. also, i'll probably swing by to see what happened to those crystals from yesterday.

i always want to see it first-hand.

see ya out there!

[advres]

It's dumping rain down here in the valley, bummer.

[Tye 1on]

It's dumping rain down here in the valley, bummer.

rain/snow mix in Moose, snow at Colter Bay.

[schwerty]

Out my window and on the webcam it is warm and windy- I wonder if that surface hoar is getting knocked over and melted down? If not it is getting a wind slab on top of it.

Anyone out today? I have to drive over the pass wed am- anyone want to meet for a short tour? a run in avalanche if it's windy, up the boot pack if not. Shwerty I'll meet you up there and get bindings as well (or somewhere on the way to the airport)?

salsa

Probably won't get a chance to ski tomorrow but will try and meet up to pass of the binders. Call or PM in the morning.

[mtcham]

Questions for the locals:

My son and I are going to sneak down to Targhee and/or the Pass next week.

Should we bring touring skis for the Pass? It looks like skinning is required off the pass and then to get back to the road, at least this is what it looks like from google earth on the computer.

Hoping you guys get dumped on!

Thanks

[schwerty]

Skinning is not necessary but it will open up many more options. Looks like more snow is on the way!

[rideit]

Anybody been up lately?

[homemadesalsa]

hey all-

Looked like there were PLENTY of folks out today- lot full in Mail Cabin.

My avy class went up the East Fork, found that the T-giving facets are still pretty sparky. That layer was about 40 cm down, and was popping out with moderate CT scores, Q2, and an R4, Q1, which gave us a bit of pause. We did a lot of hand pits, pole tests, etc, and found the T-giving facets to be pretty widespread in distribution. No collapsing or cracking.

The wind was blowing Moderate from the SE, loading a bit to the NW/ N- found a cracky little soft slab on that aspect, but it wasn't widespread.

On another note- I sure do wish folks would be friendlier in the backcountry- sure there are a lot of backcountry travellers, especially before the lifts open fully, but, fer crissakes, at least say hi or excuse us before you cut right above our pit on a steep slope, eh?

[Bart T]

hey salsa, bummer about your encounter.

i finally got registered on jhsnowobs. unfortunately, when i went to post a reply to an account of "tom" getting caught, it posted a whole new thread. so the software seems to still have a few bugs. anyhow, thought the accoutn over there is worth checking out.

[homemadesalsa]

Saw your jhsnowobs comment and the report from Angle Mtn (full story on www.tetonat.com)

There's another pretty striking story in today's JH News and Guide- The best part about the whole story (to me) is, well, #1 that, in spite of beacon in pack and dead batteries etc, he survives- hooray. But then I really appreciate how he calls for better education from his industry. It has no impact if I (an outside avy educator who doesn't ride a snowmachine) call for better education- much better from the inside. Setting up as a deep slab instability year- yikes.

http://www.jacksonholenewsandguide.c...hp?art_id=2515

snowmobiler burial and rescue from Cliff Creek


Jacksonite recounts snow burial
Partners rescue fellow snowmobiler with beacon search in Cliff Creek avalanche.



By Michael Pearlman
December 12, 2007

Jason Blair is a living reminder that the decision to strap on an avalanche beacon when heading into the backcountry can make the difference between life and death.

The Jackson resident was located and dug out from beneath 5 feet of snow after being buried by an avalanche while snowmobiling Dec. 2 in the Cliff Creek area near Bondurant. His quick-thinking partners were able to dig him out in approximately five minutes.

“I was face down and it was an unbearable weight,” recalled Blair, 33. “It was like taking a loader bucket full of snow and dumping it all on you at once. It was a huge relief when they began shoveling.”

Blair was part of a group of eight riders who had
been driving their sleds up and around a slope for more than 45 minutes when one of the riders became stuck halfway up. Blair rode up underneath his companion and parked his snowmobile near a grove of trees on the right hand side of the slope. He walked to the other man’s sled and helped free it allowing the other rider to return to the bottom. He was walking through the snow and had just reached his snowmobile when he began hearing shouts from the bottom of the slope.

“My buddies were yelling ‘Up above!, Up above!’ I looked up and the slide was probably 50 feet above our track,” Blair said.

He was able to start his sled but wasn’t able to climb aboard before being swept off his feet. Blair estimated the slide ran 200 yards and had only a two-foot crown. He stayed atop the debris pile at first, but eventually was swallowed by the slide, which deposited him near the toe of the avalanche between 2 and 5 feet below the surface, conscious but trapped face down.

“When it started slowing down, that’s when I started freaking out,” he said. “It got tight and I couldn’t move.”

Blair was carrying an avalanche beacon, but it was located in his backpack, which luckily hadn’t been ripped from his body during the slide. Blair’s close friend and riding partner Dan Adams said adrenaline was flowing as the rest of the group scrambled to assemble their shovels and poles, with several riders discovering that their transceiver batteries were dead. Adams was one of the first to reach the area where the group thought Blair was buried.

“My first instinct was that I was going to see him, but then I realized how much snow I was running on,” Adams said. “Emotions flew through me right away, I was already thinking about how I was going to tell his wife, Michelle.”

Dan’s brother, Mike Adams, had begun probing the snow while other riders quickly picked up a signal from Blair’s transceiver. On his fourth or fifth probe, Mike’s probe struck Blair’s helmet. Other members of the party began digging frantically, some with their bare hands. They managed to clear enough snow from around Blair’s helmet for him to get air while they completed digging him out.

“When his helmet was exposed, I had to clear an airway,” Adams said. “He literally gasped for air, he had snow in his mouth and his nose.”

Blair suffered only bumps and bruises from the incident, but said he’ll never again ride without making certain his transceiver is strapped to his body and his partners are equipped with transceivers as well. He’ll also think twice before rushing to assist another stranded rider, he said.

“That backpack could have easily ripped off of me,” Blair said. “Luckily I had eight guys that had their s--t together, and they dug me out. When you strap on your helmet, you have one thing in common. You all want to come home at night.”

Adams said the incident was an eye-opening experience that’s still emotional, more than a week after the avalanche. He was reminded that its important to be familiar with avalanche safety gear and for groups to have a plan for how to coordinate a rescue if someone is caught in a slide.

“Its amazing how things slow down and your mechanical skills become a task,” Dan said. “You have to know that you’re responsible for people’s lives out there.”

Dan said he’d like to see snowmobile dealers take a more active role in encouraging avalanche education, even suggesting a requirement that riders take an introductory avalanche class before being issued registration stickers.

“It’s not something that’s going to be forgotten, and it’s a catalyst for me to get the word out,” Adams said.

Blair’s slide wasn’t the only recent avalanche incident in the region. On Saturday, two snowboarders from Lander triggered a slide on the east side of Angle Mountain on Togwotee Pass. According to an account of the incident posted online, one of the men was completely buried but managed to punch his arm through the snow and clear an air pocket around his face, eventually freeing himself with his one free hand. The other rider was not buried, but suffered cuts and bruises and a sprained ankle.

On Tuesday, the Bridger-Teton National Forest Avalanche Center rated the avalanche hazard at the mid- and upper-elevations of the Tetons as moderate. “Areas of older, hard slab up to four feet deep persist primarily on easterly to northerly aspects,” reads the advisory. “More substantial triggers such as large groups or snowmobiles may be needed to initiate these slides.”

[MuleSkinner]

I ripped out a small pocket sat. at Targhee. 4 of us were sent over to Sacajawea to start setting up for the opening on Monday. We were skiing down into the waterfall/mail creek traverse trying to cut it up. I was 3/4 down the slope traversing across when it ripped out. I was able to dig in and slide down on the bed surface. The bed surface was all facets. We got out of there and then a few other patrollers came by to check it out - estimated the crown to be 1 to 2 feet. Looks like it slide on that rain crust.

Sorry for the late reporting. Definitely still some sketchy layers out there.

[kokomas]

we all got kinda lucky at jhmr, i guess a decent number of people were skiing cirque and expert chutes last week in the days before the morning of Dec 20 when patrollers triggered a big slide. i heard from an employee it was triggered by only a 2lb bomb submerged in the snow (in an area that had been bombed previously) which i guess is not a huge charge. be careful out there, in the resort too...

http://www.jhavalanche.org/summaries.php

"On Friday the 20th the patrol at Grand Targhee Resort explosively triggered a seven foot deep slab avalanche outside of the boundary of the resort on a southeast aspect of Peaked Mountain. The Targhee Patrol later reported the depth of the crown of this slabs to be 5 feet in depth. The bed surface of this slab was the Thanksgiving layer. On the same day the ski patrol at the Jackson Hole Mountain Resort explosively triggered a four foot deep hard slab in the Expert Chute area on the Thanksgiving layer. The area where this hard slab failed had not yet slide and has a northeasterly exposure."

[schwerty]

Did anyone else find that last BUNCH of storm snow, lee slopes included, to be bonding well and generally not very reactive?

[homemadesalsa]

Hey all-

Just back in town from a very long week in Mass. Sounds interesting out there- hope to get out today and find some snow.

Rideit there is a note over on the jhsnowobs.org site about someone finding a skie pole in their car that they think you might have left there

Found Pole
By mike de toro (fallsafe83001@yahoo.com ) : 12/28/2007

if i picked you up from victor carrying a swallow tail to the pass you left gear in my car,or if anyone know who does mtn. tours in Peru & live just outside victor it''s that dude

[rideit]

Thanks, Salsa, that was me!
Nice!