Custom boot liners?

I stopped by the local shop to check out getting some new boots, but the prices are just nuts. My Technica Explosions are still great boots, and don't seem that much different than the new top o the line boots out there, except that the padding has packed down and they're killing my feet.

Any suggestions on how to improve the comfort of my boots? I'm looking at custom foot beds or new liners, I think.

Which should I go with - foot beds or liners?

Any suggstions on what kind to get for my boots?

How do these things work? Are they heat molded? Do you need a certain kind for a certain brand of boot?

Brands? Prices? Places to buy them?

Any info to get me started would be appreciated. Thanks!

If you're REALLY cheap, you can throw in a pair of Superfeet and a layer of carboard under those. It's not the best solution, but it does make your packed-out boots feel a little bit snugger. I managed to extend the life of a pair of ski boots an extra season doing that.

Also, I would avoid the Deep Powder House. Everybody talks about them, but I was having minor problems with my boots (basically the toebox was too narrow and needed to be stetched out) and they insisted on putting in a custom footbed. After they worked on my boots, I spent the rest of the season in so much pain I was barely able to ski.

I feel that any "expert" skier should invest in custom footbeds fit by a top rate bootfitter. After all, the fit of the boot like tires on a car are the only connection you ahve to your skis. The best liner is an injection foam deal, but they are $$$. I got a foamed boot last year for the first time and the dif is unreal.

You're in SLC...do not make a choice before talkng to Earl Middlemiss @ the Sport Loft in SLC (801) 272-3701.

I'm willing to spend a Franklin for comfortable boots, so I think I can forgo cardboard and other ghetto footbed options.

The toe box on my boots is not too big, if anything too small. I'm looking for a molded footbed that maybe kind of cups the foot and toes a bit.

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Originally posted by truth
I feel that any "expert" skier should invest in custom footbeds fit by a top rate bootfitter. After all, the fit of the boot like tires on a car are the only connection you ahve to your skis. The best liner is an injection foam deal, but they are $$$. I got a foamed boot last year for the first time and the dif is unreal.

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Sounds nice. What's a "foamed boot"? How's that work, and how much coin? (I have some idea, just want a expert description and opinion.)

Seriously...talk to Earl Middlemiss @ the Sport Loft 4678 Highland Dr. Salt Lake City, UT 84117 (801) 272-3701....he's the real deal.

spend the franklin on custom footbeds. i used to make the amfit footbeds like surefoot is making. i think they are the best., around 100 bucks and will last forever.

read this -

http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archiv...-customSki.asp

from the website:
And as John Gatchell at Evolution Outfitters told me: "Your ski boots are unlike anything else that you could possibly put on your feet. I mean, golf shoes, tennis shoes, waders...they're not gonna put you in the trees at thirty miles and hour."

IMHO, footbeds are more important.

Caveat: Surefoot actually misized me during boot fitting by a full size... thank heavens I shopped around and other shops sized me correctly. Perhaps it was just that River Run surefoots...

Footbeds should be the first step. More comfortable, better performance, warmer feet, it's a no brainer. Spend the cash on a good set. I won't ever ski without mine. Get a custom set, expect to pay over $150 for a full custom pair without a hookup.

The liner is the next step. Here are some of your options on liners:

Standard - The liner has no special options. It takes a week or so for skiing for the liner to pack out. It doesn't fill negatvie space and olny gets bigger.

Heat moldable - Similar to stock liners, only you can heat up the liner with a hair dryer on steroids that acclearates the pack in phase. Most middle to high ends boots have these.

Hot Form - Made by Technica, this system plugs into a shop adapter that heats the liner up and makes it soft. Better than heat moldable size it gets a better fit, but doesn't fill in much space like a foam would.

EVA Foam - Like the heat moldable liners, but gone to 11. The whole liner is cooked in an easy bake oven(great for reheating pizza btw) for about 15 minutes. The whole thing swells like a marshmellow and then it's stuffed in the boot with your foot. Gives a great fit second to only the injectable liners. Common in in tele boots, at boots, and hard snowboard boots. Lighter than injectable foam.

Injectable Foam - The good shit. This is a liner that replaces your standard boot liner. It comes with out any padding and liquid foam gets shot into the liner while your foot is in it. When the foam hardens and you can no longer feel your feet you are left with a perfect cast of your foot and leg. Some liners only foam the sides and not the tongues. The ones that foam the tongues offer the best fit. These also go in any boot. They add a little extra weight, but with the extra performance and responsiveness you'll hardly notice. Price: > $300

Some boot shops have old liners laying around that they may be willing to part with, you just have to ask if you don't want to spend the bling on something like foam.

edit: forgot info, thanks co!

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Ski Monkey: informative post!

What category to the Garmont G-Fit liners fit into? They are heat moldable foam iirc.

You forgot to mention that foam liners can knock up to 1lb of each boot in some cases vs a normal liner.

Around here a lot of places will do custom footbeds for ~$90 and they do a damned good job.

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Originally posted by xboat
spend the franklin on custom footbeds. i used to make the amfit footbeds like surefoot is making. i think they are the best., around 100 bucks and will last forever.

read this -

http://www.sportsguidemag.com/archiv...-customSki.asp

from the website:
And as John Gatchell at Evolution Outfitters told me: "Your ski boots are unlike anything else that you could possibly put on your feet. I mean, golf shoes, tennis shoes, waders...they're not gonna put you in the trees at thirty miles and hour."

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Used to work under the "Gouch" before he went to Evolution, great guy, great bootfitter.


Gotta chime in and reaffirm, what's already been said, spend some time, find someone who is willing to sit down and explain it to you and expect to pay $125-$150 for your footbeds. Go somewhere that you have access to, and can go back to.
I prefer, Full-cork Superfeet, but it's what I'm used to. Amfits are good to, just a little different.
Start with a footbed and if needed save some Coin and move up to liners.

2P-
Had mine done at Surefoot at the Canyons last winter....very happy with what I got and they take care of any other boot related issue you have, fit-wise, after the footbeds are made...guaranteed fit. Shell probs, liner probs all serviced within the cost of the footbed.

I've got some Intuition liners in my boots, very happy with them. I think they'd fall in Ski Monkey's EVA Foam group, but I'm not sure. They heat 'em up in an oven for 20 minutes or so, and then you actually put a little toe box over your toes, and then slip on a nylon hose (yeah, pantyhose) up to your knee. Then they cram you into the hot liner, you stand there, work the boot a bit, etc., and eventually you're set. My biggest problem with them is that they are so frickin warm that, regardless of outdoor temps, my feet are sweating and you can smell the liners from a block away (ask someone that was at Retallack during the Summit, my boots singlehandedly funked up the entire boot dry room).

www.intuitionliners.com

Hey Lumpy, sorry I missed you leaving yesterday, I was a little out of it. Everything taken care of?

end hijack.

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Originally posted by Ski Monkey
Hey Lumpy, sorry I missed you leaving yesterday, I was a little out of it. Everything taken care of?

end hijack.

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Great service as usuall...no prob on the exit formalities, you looked pretty busy.

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Originally posted by xboat
twoplanks - on a totally unrelated note, would you please send me an email, thanks!

wiwsp at yahoo.com

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Email sent.

Hey planker. I've been where you are at. I purchased a pair of Thermoflex moldable liners a few years ago. I still have them, and still use them. Very warm. Great fit, and are lighter than the standard boot liner. I also use footbeds. I wouldn't ski without them. Footbeds and the liners should set you back $200-250. But here is another option for you.

Danny's shop here has Technica Icon ALU HotFoam (custom molded to your feet, and you can plug them in your car lighter to heat them up while driving to the slope) for $350CAD. Danny will ship them to you as a gift so no duty is paid. Call 819-425-8985. Ask for Danny, Dereck, Serg, or Louie (dude le skibum)

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Originally posted by Big E
My biggest problem with them is that they are so frickin warm that, regardless of outdoor temps, my feet are sweating and you can smell the liners from a block away (ask someone that was at Retallack during the Summit, my boots singlehandedly funked up the entire boot dry room).

www.intuitionliners.com

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Put a Downey sheet in each boot when you're not wearing them. Not only will it cure that funk, but your feet will smell Downey Fresh!

As for custom boot work:

Footbeds first. It's the most important thing you can do.

Last year, my stock liners packed out. So it was time for new ones since the boots were only a year old. I went the injectable foam route and WOW! The fit has been incredible. They are $$$ though. Also, according to Atomic (who sells foamable liners with some of their boots) there are two kinds of foam. From what I recall seeing on their website, one is super stiff for racers and the other is for us mere mortals.

Proper fitting boots are crutial.

It depends on your skiing style and prefrence as to what liner you may want.

If you tour alot and are out in some prety cold temps, the Intuition are the liner. Very light (noticablly) and warm.
As far as your feet sweating on multi-day trips, use antipersperant for your feet (works for your armpits). And of cource sleep with your liners in your sleeping bag.

If you are doing lift laps, the injectiable foam that Ski Monkey described is the ultimate fit. (not sure on the warmth of them though). They are also very noticablly heavier. You MUST go get them fitted by someone who really knows what they are doing, they are a tricky liner to properly work.

Always footbeds. I prefer the amfit, weighted fit (stand on machine), over the non weighted footbed. Surefoot stores carry these, and they do last a lifetime.

Never comprimise when it comes to ski boots (NEVER)

Quote:

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Originally posted by Lumpy
2P-
Had mine done at Surefoot at the Canyons last winter....very happy with what I got and they take care of any other boot related issue you have, fit-wise, after the footbeds are made...guaranteed fit. Shell probs, liner probs all serviced within the cost of the footbed.

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I'll second that. I got footbeds at the same store and they are the bomb. They have a lifetime guarentee, so if they break down Surefoot will just make you new ones free. I also have to advocate the Thermoflex liners from Raichle/kneissl (Can also be gotten from Dynafit). So, so comfy. It's like putting on bedroom slippers. Best thing I ever did for my feet.

How much are surefoots?

Everyone is right on with the footbed advice. There are many manufacturers out there. I have Surefoot and really like them. I put them in when I purchased my boots (spent almost 2 weeks working with a fitter to find the right boot and customize the bed).

I love my shells and someday will replace the lining (probably next year as they are starting to pack out) but for now everything is great and I believe it's due to the custom foot beds.

Here are some links for you to check out:

Foot Dynamics

Custom made insoles and liners

Superfeet

Sole custom footbeds

Surefoot

Edit: added link

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Originally posted by 13
How much are surefoots?

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$185 retail.

Adding another voice to the chorus...

Get custom footbeds, and, especially if you ski more than 20 or so days a year, I think you'll find foam liners worth the coin. Skis are cool, but boots matter way more, and the footbed is the most important part.

I've had very good experiences with Surefoot, beds and liners. They will keep tweaking things as the liners pack out, as your feet change (and they do!) and they are everywhere.

I've had full-cork footbeds (done with an un-weighted molding process) by a race-specific shop in the town of Jackson. I forget the exact name of the shop. Custom footbeds make a huge difference.

ZipFit liners (the ones with the leather inside, not the slightly cheaper velour-ish stuff) are great. Heat molded cork/something compound, thinner than stock, heat molded with areas for injecting (aunt) flo around the heel pocket and perhaps elsewhere to take up some volume and fit those areas better.

Got mine done at Superior Ski by Steve Bagley (generally considered to be a serious heavy hitter in boot fitting) last year. They felt not-so-great at first. Didn't feel terribly "fitted" and I could definitely feel the texture of the snow more. They got a lot better after a few days of skiing, as Steve told me they would and now I love them. I really like getting more feedback (roll off the treble, I know) from the snow, although it took a few days to get used to.

I've heard some negative experiences with foam injection. It's also a one-time process, which scares me.

I've had Thermoflex liners and loved those too. I got the ZipFits two years ago because I had heard some good things about them and my old thermoflex liners were too big for the new shells.

PS. I have my Lange Comp 120 Freeride boots coming in from my rep next week. <--- Psyched!

Yep, Bagley's evidently THE guru to see. Several troller buds won't go to anyone else.

I didn't have anyone special do mine--just the regular joes at Lifthouse. But I've been very happy with customs. Can't wait to use them again...

absolutely wearing out my old zipfits- need new something pronto... izzat zipfit bootguy from park city? local shop dudes had a hard time with him or somthing cuz I got static when lookin last year, I'll try again I guess- depending on cost the tech alu warmform dude_le_skideal sounds good too as I have technica shells... been gettin away with top shelf store bought footbeds for many 60+ day years- maybe my feet are average enough- whatever keeps you out there and the best fit is one you never even think about it...

Thank you very much for the reminder. I am going down to the garage right now to pullout my customer footbeds out of the old Langes. I will say that those helped my feet so much and you know the feet problems I have. The footbeds did the trick back in the day. I aslo have Superfeet from like 10 years ago. They worked for a while and then I got customs and I loved my feet again. The Superfeet are now in my Vans. :D

Just as an opposing opinion, I had a lousy experience w/ Surefoot. Never got it right, different person every time I went. I will say that they stand by their warranty, after 2 years of back and forth with them and several lost toenails, I finally had it with them, and managed to sell the boots back to them at about 80% of what I paid for them, enough to cover the deal I was getting on brand new boots. Can't complain about that.

Any thoughts on which fit solution would work best for an AT boot? My Lowa Strukturas are packed out and I need to be able to climb safely and comfortably (sans skis) wearing these boots. Any AT specific recommendations or opinions?

Thermoflex. Good and light.