Nevegal questions

My older tires, Hutchison Bulldog-Shit 2.1s, had opposition rotation directions depending on whether they were mounted front or rear.

I have Nevegals now... they only seem to give one rotation direction without specification... should I reverse the rear?

Also, the Bulldogshit 2.1s are noticably skinnier than the Nevegal 2.1s and way skinnier than the Nevegal 2.3s... I used the same tubes which were marked for 1.5-1.9... is that going to be a problem at 30-35psi? (kinda pointless question since I am going to go find out right now ;))

Having just mounted up a nevegal on the rear, I feel highly qualified to answer this question.

If they had intended for the user to reverse them they probably would have said so, just like your Hutchinsons and my old WTB whatevers.

I really liked the 2.1 I had on the rear of my bike, I ran it in the normal direction.

those tubes should be fine. i run tubes that are marked 1.5 - 2.1 even with my 2.35 blue groove front tire.

If you're riding XC, a 1.5-1.9 tube will be ok in a 2.1, pushing it a lot in a 2.3. If you're riding anything rocky or getting the wheels off the ground, I would go for a bigger tube with either size. As the smaller tube is inflated in the larger tire, it stretches and gets a lot thinner and more flat prone.

just run them facing the normal way, they roll like shit otherwise. I tried running them backwards on the rear when it was about 1/2 worn out, felt like I was dragging an anchor up hill.

don't flip nevgals unless you want them to roll like shit and break like shit.

I was pretty unimpressed with the nevegals regardless of direction. After all the rave reviews I figured I had to try them but am i the only one who thought they sucked? Worst lifespan of any tire ive tried, i barely ride on cement or rocky terrrain(usually singletrack dirt) and after 2 months the rear is almost toast already. The cornering is pretty pathetic as well, the side knobs are just way to soft it feels like. And the weight is wayyy off the listed weight as well, i think they were listed at like 700 but when i weighed them they were well over 800.....so ya overall they suck, better tires out there in my opionino.

i ride alot of rockey terrain (i mean they are the rockies...), and kenda sticky rubber wear as well as michelin and WAY WAY better than maxxis in my experiance. and they bite and penetrate well in loose and rocky stuff.

also, weight has been +/- 20g of claimed on most/all tires i have seen and weighed.

Quick 2hr fun ride... I put them through paces... (2.3 Stick-E front & 2.1 DTC rear @ low 30s psi)

+'s

They don't slide out on me the way the dogshits did when cornering on loose and hardpack! I'm stoked about that! I noticed a significant improvement in gravel and scree. They brake much nicer on that stuff too. They go over rocks and hold on very well. They deflect less when going over obstacles. The rear had great traction and I only broke loose on some super wet slick leaf covered rocks and roots.

-'s

I guess they do roots a little better than the dogshits but I suppose nothing out there really goes over wet off camber roots that well. I can certainly feel the increased rotational inertia on the climb versus the thinner lighter dogshits.

Jump-to-Conclusion: Definitely worth it, but not everything I thought they would be. Perhaps my expectations were a touch high.

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Originally Posted by cincystar

I was pretty unimpressed with the nevegals regardless of direction. After all the rave reviews I figured I had to try them but am i the only one who thought they sucked? Worst lifespan of any tire ive tried, i barely ride on cement or rocky terrrain(usually singletrack dirt) and after 2 months the rear is almost toast already. The cornering is pretty pathetic as well, the side knobs are just way to soft it feels like. And the weight is wayyy off the listed weight as well, i think they were listed at like 700 but when i weighed them they were well over 800.....so ya overall they suck, better tires out there in my opionino.

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What model did you run?

What PSI did you use?

What is your riding terrain like? If you barely ride pavement and you used up a tire in 2 months, something's seriously wrong. Either you're seriously exaggerating, or the tire is seriously defective. My average rides are about 8 miles pavement + 15 miles dirt/rock/root trail in a loop. I ride that amount or more 3-5x per week, for 7.5 months a year. And I haven't worn out a pair of Nevegals yet.

What tires do you consider "better," because I'd like to try them. The Nevegals are better than any tire I've ever used. Better at everything except rolling speed on pavement.

+++++++++++++++++

Summit, did you play with PSI? Did you play with cornering techniques?

i just ordered a 2.1 dtc to replace my old standard 2.1 irc mythos in the rear.

looking forward to something new and hopefully a bit better in loose hardpack
will add comments to this thread or that other one in a couple weeks

stoked to get on em

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

i ride alot of rockey terrain (i mean they are the rockies...),

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Yeah they only called them that because they hadn't gotten to the sierras yet.:D



I agree with him though......I can't stand nevegals for around here.


They work just fine on true harpack but suck in loose LOOSE dusty conditions.

I recommended them for hop because of where he lives but I won't ride them here.........no big channels.

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Originally Posted by uncle crud

Summit, did you play with PSI? Did you play with cornering techniques?

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Nope... what do you recommend?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kidwoo

They work just fine on true harpack but suck in loose LOOSE dusty conditions.

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so whatcha reccomend for those conditions in an xc-am'ish 2.1 to 2.3 size?
preferably less than 800g

edit: front and\or rear

theres a nice nevegal cut you can do, it involves siping the knobs inbetween the sideknobs and the center knobs and another sipe, ill get more info and pass it along,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pechelman

so whatcha reccomend for those conditions in an xc-am'ish 2.1 to 2.3 size?
preferably less than 800g

edit: front and\or rear

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Look for big channels.

Like this


http://www.maxxis.com/intellicms/_ex...hf_ust~228.jpg

http://www.maxxis.com/intellicms/_ex..._dh~237~80.jpg




Nevegals make the classic mistake of putting a knob in where you want dirt to be collected and held. Instead of grabbing dirt, you lift up on those knobs between the center and sideknobs and slide across the top of them........those intermediate lumps don't let the sideknobs do their job.

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Originally Posted by Summit

Nope... what do you recommend?

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For the single-ply version you will need at least 35 psi in the rear, and more if you load the rear tire in corners, or are heavy. I weigh 165 with all my gear and I run 35 psi rear, 33 psi front on the single-ply.

You mentioned a squirmy feel. I've found as a general rule that if a tire feels squirmy, the first thing to do is bump up the PSI to firm up the casing. A single-ply tire relies on air pressure to keep it firm. Some tires are really sensitive to air pressure. On my 29er SS I have a Nevegal front, Maxxis Ignitor rear. The Ignitor feels fine at 33 to 35 psi, but if it gets below 33 psi it feels like it's made of mush, doesn't corner well, feels like it may roll off the rim. Even the drop from 33 psi to 31 psi is really noticeable. I have found that on the rear wheel, the single-ply Nevegal is sensitive to bumps of at least 3 PSI but not less.

The 2-ply DH version of the Nevegal lets you run lower PSI but not a lot lower, the Kenda DH casing isn't as thick or firm as a Maxxis, and nowhere near the car tire firmness of an Intense.

For cornering technique, I find that the flatter your tire (the more it is close to being perpendicular to the trail), the less cornering traction the Nevegal has. It likes to be cornered with good angle, engaging the side knobs. This gets more true as you bump up the tire PSI and make it really firm. At firm PSIs, the tire will skate sideways when cornered flat.

+++++++++++++++++++++++

kidwoo's comments also show that tires can work with or against you depending on soil / trail conditions. I don't see very much of that powdery deep dusty dirt that works well with Maxxis High Rollers & Minions. The Minion DH F front and High Roller DH rear is a good combo and the best I used before trying Nevegals. I guess our loose stuff around here is more loose rock and larger granule dirt.

Or maybe I just corner like a girl and need the Kidwoo Cornering Sauce. :D

I'll try bumping the pressures and leaning

I really got away from leaning with the Dogshits because they had such tiny side knobs and wanted to roll off the rims at the slightest... well... they wanted to roll of the rims no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Summit

I guess they do roots a little better than the dogshits but I suppose nothing out there really goes over wet off camber roots that well.

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ride fast at the roots, stop pedaling, and roll up them. pedaling will just make the tire slip.

MAXXIS MINION DHF IS THE BEST TIRE 3V3R!!!!!!!
ALL TRAIL SURFACES BOW TO THEIR SUPR3M3CY!!!!!







Soory, it had to be said. I got aroused just looking at that picture.
Big nevies slip, little nevies pinch flat. All Minions pwn.

nice microburst.

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

ride fast at the roots, stop pedaling, and roll up them. pedaling will just make the tire slip.

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I want to watch you ride the trail I'm thinking of... :biggrin:

I have to say that I agree that Nevegals are not very good for the deep rocky conditions that we have around here. I've used Weirwolfs for the last several seasons and truly loved them, but have replaced them with the Prowler XT. Sick!!!! IMHO.

flowtron, if you just give them a chance, Nevegals will brush your teeth for you, floss for you, and given enough good vibes they'll even wipe your arse for you. They'll get you the hottest AND brainiest women, make the 98-lb-weaklings cry, and bring peace to all nations. They'll also eliminate world hunger and global poverty.

Really, I don't understand what you have against them!

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Originally Posted by uncle crud

flowtron, if you just give them a chance, Nevegals will brush your teeth for you, floss for you, and given enough good vibes they'll even wipe your arse for you. They'll get you the hottest AND brainiest women, make the 98-lb-weaklings cry, and bring peace to all nations. They'll also eliminate world hunger and global poverty.

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Yet despite all that....... they still corner like crap in loose dirt......which is usually one of those characteristics you look for in a tire.

Flow's got those indentured servants from sweden for everything else.


flow goes fast

flow knows

I try to stop being the Nevegal cheerleader, really I do. But even on my ride for the 4th when I put the Maxxis 2.35 "freeride" singleply on my trail bike for a nice long ride that has a super-varied techie descent including some soft loose dirt sections, I found myself wishing I had the Nevegals. I guess I corner like a little girl.:biggrin:

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Originally Posted by uncle crud

I guess I corner like a little girl.:biggrin:

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Not necessarily.

Look at this video

Three parts.....mine, my buddy john, and then Karl

John rides nevegals and Karl rides rides more like I (try to) do and karl and I usually agree more on tires. There's a section with a double in kind of a flat area with a left hand turn (rut). Watch how john just kind of sticks to it and watch how karl smacks into the thing (after a short manual) and then catches. We usually all ride about the same speed but go about it differently. Despite my ranting, it's just as much about if you like to belly out turns or square them off. Tires with a deep groove are easy to recover once you start drifting. Tires like the nevy with that intermediate knob tend to just keep sliding. I started skiing because it feels like smacking berms and recovering:)

http://www.kidwoo.com/images/movies/...20Training.wmv

Quote:

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Originally Posted by uncle crud

I try to stop being the Nevegal cheerleader, really I do. But even on my ride for the 4th when I put the Maxxis 2.35 "freeride" singleply on my trail bike for a nice long ride that has a super-varied techie descent including some soft loose dirt sections, I found myself wishing I had the Nevegals. I guess I corner like a little girl.:biggrin:

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No sweat. Like woo said, different strokes for different folks.
Plus, once you ride a particular shape and tread for a while, its generally tough to switchto something else and dig it right off the bat. I tried a bunch of different rubber this spring in a fruitless effort to see if I could ween myself from the Maxxis teat to no avail. I would usually end the ride kinda bummed I didn't have my DHFs, having suffered flats, dumb crashes and even rolled a tire right off the rim w/out popping the tube in one case.
We sell a lot of Weirwolfs, Nevegals and Minions at my place of work, people rave about all of them, but the most common complaint is Nevegals pinch flatting.

thanks for those comments, kidwoo & flowtron. kidwoo, I'm downloading the movie now.

As a general cornering thing, I try to carve my turns -- is that what you mean by "belly out," kidwoo?

I ski the same way. I'm not keen on high-speed smearing of turns on snow or on dirt. I like feeling hooked up, so that I can change direction in a moment without having to redirect everything radically.

That big gap between the center knobs and the edge knobs on a tire like the Minion sits right where I usually corner. So it makes me drift, which I don't like. Or I have to corner more upright, or leaned WAAAAY over to finally engage those side knobs. But I can see how a drift & square turn technique might prefer the Minion. It is Sam Hill's favorite tire, right? He is the drift-meister. But then, he could probably ride snot-slick roots on a bald tire.

I know the Nevegal singleply is prone to pinch flats. But strangely, on my July 4 ride, I got a front tire pinchflat with the Minion singleply. The trail had sharp rock water diversions, and I pronged one of the rock edges with the front tire.