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Moment Skis: Jib, Rocker and Melee
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Those look pretty sick!! I can't quite tell from the pics, but are the edges a full wrap?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
iggyskier
Those look pretty sick!! I can't quite tell from the pics, but are the edges a full wrap?
The first Moment skis were full wrap edges but the ones pictured are not and the future skis will not be either. After a lot of testing we have found a new way of making our edges 3/4 wrap and allowing them to be stronger than the full wrap.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
The first Moment skis were full wrap edges but the ones pictured are not and the future skis will not be either. After a lot of testing we have found a new way of making our edges 3/4 wrap and allowing them to be stronger than the full wrap.
pretty cool. I imagine bending and attaching the edges to the base material with such a tight turn in the tips and tails would be a bit of a pain as well (if they aren't pre-bent).
Again, skis look awesome!
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In the photo on their website on the 'about' page. the one that shows all the cores sitting on the shelf, you can see base material on top with edges applied that only come down to the length of the sidewall and then stop.
Is that how all of the skis are made?
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So when are the first Comi Kazis going to be ready?
About to pull the trigger on the preorder.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
iggyskier
pretty cool. I imagine bending and attaching the edges to the base material with such a tight turn in the tips and tails would be a bit of a pain as well (if they aren't pre-bent).
Again, skis look awesome!
Thanks for the kind words.
We do bend our own edges and yes it is a pain with our square tips but that is not why we changed our edge style. The way that edges come from the factory and are layed up in a ski they act like a wedge if something hits them. So if you have a full wrap edge and the tip of your ski hits a tree, box, or rail the edge pushes in on the ski and makes small cracks which leads to water getting into the ski which then leads to delams. I know that a full wrap looks nice and pretty, but its just not as strong.
There are also other issues that come up do to full wrap edges on park skis specifically. Take a look at K2, its why they need rivets because their tips delam due to the full wrap. If you look at an Armada ski they solve this problem by making a 4 piece edge. It allows the tip to expand and contract when the tip gets slapped down after a huge air. K2's cant expand and contract as well thus resulting in a delam.
Shear forces add up when you slap your skis down against hard surfaces.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
TahoeHuckerSchmucker
In the photo on their website on the 'about' page. the one that shows all the cores sitting on the shelf, you can see base material on top with edges applied that only come down to the length of the sidewall and then stop.
Is that how all of the skis are made?
The edge goes farther than the sidewall and the effective edge, up and into the curl of the tip and tail.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
leroy jenkins
So when are the first Comi Kazis going to be ready?
About to pull the trigger on the preorder.
Comi-Kazi's are going to be done by the end of July.
Pull that trigger! Some have already sold. Limited quantities available for 07/08....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
Shear forces add up when you slap your skis down against hard surfaces.
Heh.
Sweet looking boards, and I've yet to hear anything but praise about how they ski. Thanks for the pics.
<ponders new ski purchase vs. staying happily married>
Why the squared off tips?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Lexi-Bell
Why the squared off tips?
We do our square tips for a few reasons:
1) To be different
2) We think it looks cool
3) Old racers used to do it to their skis with a file...helps reduce drag...take a look at downhill skis, almost no tip.
4) We joke that it makes it easier to do nose and tail grabs.
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Also, I just got this image via email....Melee's and pink Moment Beanie. Model not included.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...2/DSC_0024.jpg
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^^ OK, she's hot. I'm thinking I'm ordering some Comi's for next season at Mammoth. Anyone want to buys some 190 esplosiv's w/ freeride 140's?:FIREdevil
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^^^if you like 190 explosives, step up to the comi-kazi
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
Comi-Kazi's are going to be done by the end of July.
Pull that trigger! Some have already sold. Limited quantities available for 07/08....
fucking sweet news.
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the melee looks sick melee.
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More pictures of our new model...this time with the Reno Jibs.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y45...2/DSC_0015.jpg
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just out of curiosity, has anyone skied the rocker or melee and can give some feedback?
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What ski was mr. orange riding at Kirkwood this spring? They looked about 110 under foot and versatile in the park.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
Thanks for the kind words.
We do bend our own edges and yes it is a pain with our square tips but that is not why we changed our edge style. The way that edges come from the factory and are layed up in a ski they act like a wedge if something hits them. So if you have a full wrap edge and the tip of your ski hits a tree, box, or rail the edge pushes in on the ski and makes small cracks which leads to water getting into the ski which then leads to delams. I know that a full wrap looks nice and pretty, but its just not as strong.
There are also other issues that come up do to full wrap edges on park skis specifically. Take a look at K2, its why they need rivets because their tips delam due to the full wrap. If you look at an Armada ski they solve this problem by making a 4 piece edge. It allows the tip to expand and contract when the tip gets slapped down after a huge air. K2's cant expand and contract as well thus resulting in a delam.
Shear forces add up when you slap your skis down against hard surfaces.
I dont want to argue your point, as I see where you are coming from...But Ive never ever delamed a K2 twin, (even long after my rivets fell out.)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ottime
What ski was mr. orange riding at Kirkwood this spring? They looked about 110 under foot and versatile in the park.
The Ruby is 110 underfoot and a lot of guys at kwood use it in the park.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
japollner
I dont want to argue your point, as I see where you are coming from...But Ive never ever delamed a K2 twin, (even long after my rivets fell out.)
It doesn't happen to every k2 that is ridden by every skier, but I honestly have seen it several times. I'm glad your k2's stayed together.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
Thanks for the kind words.
We do bend our own edges and yes it is a pain with our square tips but that is not why we changed our edge style. The way that edges come from the factory and are layed up in a ski they act like a wedge if something hits them. So if you have a full wrap edge and the tip of your ski hits a tree, box, or rail the edge pushes in on the ski and makes small cracks which leads to water getting into the ski which then leads to delams. I know that a full wrap looks nice and pretty, but its just not as strong.
There are also other issues that come up do to full wrap edges on park skis specifically. Take a look at K2, its why they need rivets because their tips delam due to the full wrap. If you look at an Armada ski they solve this problem by making a 4 piece edge. It allows the tip to expand and contract when the tip gets slapped down after a huge air. K2's cant expand and contract as well thus resulting in a delam.
Shear forces add up when you slap your skis down against hard surfaces.
Nope dude..... The edges only act as a wedge if you are not properly installing them on the ski... You have to take into account the height of the edge flange when you are preparing our laminate scheme. I.E. that mm or so needs some place to go.... preferably you take it out of the core. Take a thicker hardbound book. I.E, a physics book and slam it down on a hard surface, pay attention to how the top covers moves relative to the bottom. The edges really dont have anything to do about it. The problem lies in the amount of sheer force that your resin system can handle.
This is compounded by the inconsistnacys of your wet out when pressing.
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Skis look great. Congrats on getting things up and running.
My only peice of advice would be to tell us why your skis rock and leave the negative comments about other companies off of public forums. I will basically stop listening to reps who trash other companies. This is very unprofesional and I have not purchased/supported companies(reps) who use this tactic.
Just my 2 cents.
Again I am super pumped to see indie skis that look as sick as your products. Good luck and thanks for the passion!
Oh and flame away for those who disagree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Melee
There are also other issues that come up do to full wrap edges on park skis specifically. Take a look at K2, its why they need rivets because their tips delam due to the full wrap K2's cant expand and contract as well thus resulting in a delam.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gunder
Nope dude..... The edges only act as a wedge if you are not properly installing them on the ski... You have to take into account the height of the edge flange when you are preparing our laminate scheme. I.E. that mm or so needs some place to go.... preferably you take it out of the core. Take a thicker hardbound book. I.E, a physics book and slam it down on a hard surface, pay attention to how the top covers moves relative to the bottom. The edges really dont have anything to do about it. The problem lies in the amount of sheer force that your resin system can handle.
This is compounded by the inconsistnacys of your wet out when pressing.
Thanks for the point. I just want it to be known that the way we layup our edges on Moment Skis is the same way the rest of the industry lays in their edges. We do account for the edge in our sidewall thickness since that is what is above the edge, not the core.
As far as your textbook analogy goes we use top of the line epoxy.
Regardless of what brand of ski is used if you are a park skier and hit your edge spinning off a box/rail too fast your edge can and very likely will get hit inward towards the ski. It is not a perfect triangular wedge but it is forced in. This causes cracks in epoxy which lead to delams.
My point was that by eliminating the edge from the tip and tail it allows for a much more durable and pliable surface to be hit, the base, fiberglass and tip/tail material.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
jetski
Skis look great. Congrats on getting things up and running.
My only peice of advice would be to tell us why your skis rock and leave the negative comments about other companies off of public forums. I will basically stop listening to reps who trash other companies. This is very unprofesional and I have not purchased/supported companies(reps) who use this tactic.
Just my 2 cents.
Again I am super pumped to see indie skis that look as sick as your products. Good luck and thanks for the passion!
Oh and flame away for those who disagree.
I am sorry and completely understand your point. My purpose of bringing up k2 was not to bash them, I think they are a great company and make great skis. I just wanted to talk ski design. I also gave praise to other companies in the sentences following:
Quote:
If you look at an Armada ski they solve this problem by making a 4 piece edge.
Bashing other companies is not and never will be our tactics. Sorry for making it look that way I just like using examples.
Thanks for the kind words.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
mc_roon
Yup, thats the graphic for 07/08.
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What's the thought behind the very narrow slit in the Comi-Kazi's swallowtail? Or is the picture not to scale?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
alpinedad
What's the thought behind the very narrow slit in the Comi-Kazi's swallowtail? Or is the picture not to scale?
The swallow tail is about 1" wide.
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So only about 25mm of the 145mm width of the tail? I.e., there's still 120mm of surface area?
It seems to me that such a narrow space wouldn't let much snow through -- the same way that you get more float with your skis closer together than further apart. And, of course, any swallowtail compromises rigidity and possibly durability. But I'm a lawyer, not a ski designer. So I'm curious what the rationale is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
alpinedad
So only about 25mm of the 145mm width of the tail? I.e., there's still 120mm of surface area?
It seems to me that such a narrow space wouldn't let much snow through -- the same way that you get more float with your skis closer together than further apart. And, of course, any swallowtail compromises rigidity and possibly durability. But I'm a lawyer, not a ski designer. So I'm curious what the rationale is.
Our intention with the Comi-Kazi swallow tail is to maintain sidecut and running length, while allowing the ski to pivot better in the powder. Due to reduced stiffness and surface area it allows us to have a ski with a softer tail.
We have skied many many days on the Comi and know how it reacts. We are hoping by doing this to the Comi-Kazi we will get more float and still be able to maneuver it like the Comi.
Also, we have created a tail which should be extremely durable and we do not foresee it to be an issue.
Thanks for the interest and questions.
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with the reno rocker, isn't there 1.5 cm of rocker in the tips and 1 cm of rocker in the tails?
