Igneous skis, in particular, the FFFs

I am wondering how igneous' ski, especially the FFFs. I searched, and found a couple things, but the best descriptions I got were, sick, they charge, etc. I'm looking for a bit more detailed reviews.

Do iggies typically ski like heads, very heavy and damp, but not very much pop? Or are they a bit more like the b squads, still fairly damp, but livelier and poppier? I thought the 193 m103s were ok, but not great, and I absolutly love the 194 squads, way easier to ski in my opinion. I'd like a slightly softer, longer, wider, straighter squad with less camber. Ok, so maybe thats not a squad at all, but I want something that likes to make gigantic turns, but is still somewhat manageable a BIT slower.

I am thinking about getting a pair of 200cm FFFs, probably in a 250ish flex, and I might ask them to widen up the tail just a hair, or even see how pricey it would be to widen up everything, but the tail a bit more so.

And yes, I know, just email em and they'll answer all your questions, I'm doing that, but I wanted some actual reviews too, so I could compare them to other skis and try to get an idea of what they would feel like.

I have had a couple pairs of iggies and am planning on getting 190 FFF's 240RA as soon as I get the money around
There are a couple of people around the board that have fff's - marshal safetysquad, Natty, ect..
seems like the general consensus is that 240 is the perfect flex
Thats all i have to contribute

damp, stable, think mac truck with jet rockets.

not light, lively, nervous, or twitchy

I have both Monsters (183) and FFF's. Monsters are much more damp/heavy feeling. My FFF's are 190's, 240 flex and they are very damp and extremely stable while staying lively and suprisingly easy to ski. I've never skied Squads, so I can't compare them at all. Even though the Monsters and FFF's ski differently, I love them both for their designed purpose.

Iggy doesn't make the FFF in a 200cm length, so to get them to build you a pair (if their press can even accomodate that size) might be pricey. Also changing the width dimensions might cost you some coin.

So there is a brief answer to your question. Feel free to ask more specifics and I'll try and answer them tomorrow when I'm bored to tears at work.

Edit: Although I'm sure mntlion knows his shit, I have found my FFF's to be my lightest pair of skis. Between Monsters and my Pow + the Iggy's feel like feathers.

I have e mailed them, and was quoted $1200 for the 200cm length, which has me pretty stoked, $20 more than the 190 doesn't seem too bad.

Haven't asked about changing the width though, I'd expect that would be a lot more pricy.

I'm fully aware that they'll be heavy, but there is a huge difference between the squads and the 103s. Thats why I mentioned both those. I realize neither are really pow skis, but I see them being two very different kinds of big burly planks, which ussually all get lumped into the same category. I like damp and stable, but in 200cm I'm thinking stable is a given, hopefully they'll be sorta lively as well.


Ok, heres one thing I'm really wondering, how much of a pintail do they feel like? The specs make em definitly seem like one, but it seems like you can never tell without skiing a ski. I wouldn't mind a bit, but don't want too much of that feel. I'm hopeing more for a plank that floats.

I might feel light (as in deflected in crud etc)

they are lightish on the scales

nice skis LG.

also look at capital?

Not really relevent to the thread, but I have found that if you get centered and really arc the squads they are one of the livliest superstiff skis out there, much more so heads or the legend pros.

So what I was trying to say is that both the Heads and the Iggy's are super damp and stable, but the FFF's don't have the heavy feel to them that the Monsters do. I guess that is what people around here are calling lively. Compared to my Monsters, FFF's feel lighter on my feet, float a lot better, and are actually pretty easy to ski. They also have a lot more camber than my Monsters (probably not needed on a powder ski, but the camber is pretty big).

I know nothing about pintail skis. Are FFF's really considered pintails? To tell you the truth I haven't skied that many skis in my career. This past season was my first season with a quiver and the season before that was my first season on fat skis (103's were my first fat ski). So I guess I'm not the best person to answer this question. Maybe if Iggyskier sees this thread he will chime in as he's skied the 103's and multiple pairs of FFF's and other Igneous skis.

Sorry I can't be of much help...

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Originally Posted by Phill

Not really relevent to the thread, but I have found that if you get centered and really arc the squads they are one of the livliest superstiff skis out there, much more so heads or the legend pros.

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Pretty much what made me fall in love with them. I'm still amazed how nimble they are going from big turn to little turns.

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Originally Posted by SafteySquad

I know nothing about pintail skis. Are FFF's really considered pintails?

Sorry I can't be of much help...

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Ok I think my question as to the liveliness has been answered, even though I didn't phrase it all that well. I am hoping they are "lively for a big huge plank of a ski" and thats what it sounds like they are.

I just don't know about the pintail thing. The EHPs definitly ski like pintails, and the specs of the FFFs aren't all that different (if wider) but numbers aren't everything in determining how a ski skis.

And you guys have definitly been a help. I'm getting more determined to save up for these.



One more question, how long did it take you guys to get your skis once you ordered them?

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

One more question, how long did it take you guys to get your skis once you ordered them?

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Mine came from Marshal, so I can't help you with this question, sorry...

Edit: So what exactly do you not like about the pintail geometry? Maybe if you explain which attributes of your EHP's you don't like I might be able to say if they will be a problem with the FFF's.

these are all questions for you to go over in detail with your chosen custom ski manufacturer. The ratio of internet people to custom builder input on your skis should be about 1:40.

my capitals where 2+ months to "make"

ski bee's full customs where 2-4 months from planning to skiing.

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Originally Posted by SafteySquad

Edit: So what exactly do you not like about the pintail geometry? Maybe if you explain which attributes of your EHP's you don't like I might be able to say if they will be a problem with the FFF's.

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I just felt like there was no support there. I was always struggling to try and stay forwards on them, especially after landing hucks I could not get out of the back seat. They worked all right if I could stay completely on top of them and maintain perfect form, but even then, I found myself breaking at the waist sometimes to try and get my weight even further forwards. I have since remounted them about 1.5cm farther forwards, which seems to be better, but have only skied them in corn as such, and not in powder. Maybe it was just the mount, I don't know. Maybe it was also because of the EHPs turned up tail, and the FFFs will have a square tail, so it won't be an issue.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

these are all questions for you to go over in detail with your chosen custom ski manufacturer. The ratio of internet people to custom builder input on your skis should be about 1:40.

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Yea, I have been sending some emails back and forth with them, but I just wanted some varied reviews, especially comparing their feel to other skis I might have tried. When investing this much money, especially in something 200cm that might not be so easy to resell, theres no such thing as too much info/research.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

especially in something 200cm that might not be so easy to resell

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Ski them once and then I will give you $500 w/o binders :FIREdevil

yeah they'll be easy to resell.

Just remember the cardinal igneous blunder people make is letting ego decide their flex #, unless you're a huge powerful skier you don't need anything more than 240 and probably a lot less.

i thought you were a tiny guy leeeeeeeeroy.
like 5'8 160'ish?

youve got no business on a 250 200cm iggy FFF.
pretty much no one does.

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Originally Posted by pechelman

i thought you were a tiny guy leeeeeeeeroy.
like 5'8 160'ish?

youve got no business on a 250 200cm iggy FFF.
pretty much no one does.

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Having skied with him, I can say I think he will be just fine. Now all he needs are bigger feet so I can try them out next season.

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Originally Posted by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo

Having skied with him, I can say I think he will be just fine. Now all he needs are bigger feet so I can try them out next season.

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marshal disagrees with you
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=igneous

ETA, the discussion above was for 190cm vs the 200cm foolishness here in this thread

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Originally Posted by pechelman

marshal disagrees with you
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=igneous

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And he may be right, I can only speak from my experiences skiing with Leroy. It's his money, why anyone cares how big and burly a ski he spends it on is beyond me.

i could care less

correct me if im wrong, but he asked for advice and an opinion with regard to the FFF, and I gave it.
my advice and opinion is based on what other people who have had 1st hand experience, and lots of it, have said in previous threads

i thought this was a public forum intended to share these ideas
i thought this was better than the whole "search function" post

I have to disagree with the 'lively' feel that has come out of this thread. Actually, they are the absolute opposite of that. My 189 Squads are extremely lively and easy to ski in comparison with my 190 FFL's. That said, I did comfortably and happily ski my FFL's for multiple seasons as my primary quiver ski, which is why I own 2 pair. And will never sell them b/c they are a nostalgic awesome ski. That said, I got on them one day this year, they kicked my ass, and I am just happier skiing my 'easy' Squads. I love my Iggies but I would say they fall way more on the 103 side of the spectrum than the Squad side. FWIW

edit to add: a lot depends on sidecut. my FFL's were WAY easier to ski than my old FGS, which had a bunch more sidecut and just didn't like to let go of a turn once put on edge. The FFL's, once you figure them out, actually allow you to end a turn early, throw it sideways if needed, etc. I think the FFF's have a fairly similar sidecut to the FFL?

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Originally Posted by pechelman

youve got no business on a 250 200cm iggy FFF.
pretty much no one does.

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dude, shut up! I know there are a lot of vultures waiting in the wings for these to come back on the market "twice skied/once drilled" for a cut rate price :FIREdevil :FIREdevil :FIREdevil :FIREdevil

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Originally Posted by SafteySquad

So what I was trying to say is that both the Heads and the Iggy's are super damp and stable, but the FFF's don't have the heavy feel to them that the Monsters do. I guess that is what people around here are calling lively. Compared to my Monsters, FFF's feel lighter on my feet, float a lot better, and are actually pretty easy to ski. They also have a lot more camber than my Monsters (probably not needed on a powder ski, but the camber is pretty big).

I know nothing about pintail skis. Are FFF's really considered pintails? To tell you the truth I haven't skied that many skis in my career. This past season was my first season with a quiver and the season before that was my first season on fat skis (103's were my first fat ski). So I guess I'm not the best person to answer this question. Maybe if Iggyskier sees this thread he will chime in as he's skied the 103's and multiple pairs of FFF's and other Igneous skis.

Sorry I can't be of much help...

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IMO, they aren't really pintails. They just have a lot of taper (20mm), which IMO is what makes them ski so well. It allows you to control the ski a lot more. The tail doesn't hook up as much and you can throw the skis around while still maintaining the ability to carve.

Last season my quiver was 183 M103s and 190 FFFs 240 RA. If there was soft snow, I brought the FFFs. They were more lively than the heads (not saying they are super lively, just more so than the heads) and were (completely serious) just as fun on hardpack. The FFF are pretty light for their size, super stable, fun to ski, but weren't super damp like the heads. Just different skis. Float is obviously better on the FFFs.

Don't know what else to really say about them, but what you already know: they are sick. Construction is amazing, stability is amazing, love the feel, they are pretty, they float well, they do fine on hardpack (ice excluded). This last pair took about 5 weeks to get to my door. The first pair I ordered from igneous took about the same. The capital pairs I ordered took about 11 weeks to arrive.

question in general for you iggyskier

you say you dont think iggy FFF's have pin tail geometry, yet the wasit\tail width difference is only 7mm total, which is to say, that its only 3.5mm wider in the tail than it is at the waist on one side of the ski. Thats roughly only the width of an edge. This fact, in and of itself, makes this ski a pintail on paper. (imo)

So, this brings me to my question.
How do you feel the large tip sidecut effects your perception on how this ski skis (ie not pintail)? For ref, the tip is 27mm wider than the waist.

im not arguing with you here or saying youre wrong, im just interested in this particular design topic, especially since I just designed some skis for pmgear that could be considered pintail by some, and not by others.

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Originally Posted by pechelman

question in general for you iggyskier

you say you dont think iggy FFF's have pin tail geometry, yet the wasit\tail width difference is only 7mm total, which is to say, that its only 3.5mm wider in the tail than it is at the waist on one side of the ski. Thats roughly only the width of an edge. This fact, in and of itself, makes this ski a pintail on paper. (imo)

So, this brings me to my question.
How do you feel the large tip sidecut effects your perception on how this ski skis (ie not pintail)? For ref, the tip is 27mm wider than the waist.

im not arguing with you here or saying youre wrong, im just interested in this particular design topic, especially since I just designed some skis for pmgear that could be considered pintail by some, and not by others.

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No offense taken. For me, pintail has always meant that the narrowest point of the ski was the tail (aka pontoons). I could be wrong, but that is how I have always looked at it. So the tip, to me, plays no role in affecting my perception on whether or not this ski is pintail or not. For me, it is the overall dimensions and the location of the narrowest part of the ski (in this case, although not by much, the waist) that determines it. To me, the FFF just has a lot of taper. I can see, though, how a ski like the FFF could be considered as pintail.

Regarding how they ski (hopefully I am answering your question correctly), the difference between the tip and waist (145 to 118) plays a huge role in how they ski. The taper of the ski and the tiny increase between the waist and the tail (118 to 125) allows the ski to track straight and not hook up. it also allows you to throw the tail of the ski out when you need to slash speed. It is what makes them so great in powder is that you can control the skis a lot more.

The larger tips are great because, while the ski won't hook up, when you lay the ski over it will carve. I actually thought these skis carved just as well on hardpack as the m103. The bigger tips make them a lot more versatile than you would expect. I think the little bit of sidecut in the tail does help to maintain the carve when you lay the ski over. If that wasn't there (and it was something like 145/118/110) I don't believe it would carve as well.

Hopefully that answered your question.

interesting to note the difference in types of pintails.
perhaps skis like the pontoon could be called true pintails, whereas skis like the dp120, ehp, fff, and big daddy could be called something like "heavy tapered pintails" or something.

either way
great response and you answered my question!
It sounds like we have a lot of the same design philosophy with regard to sidecut on wider skis.
how would you feel if your FFF's were rockered or had a long shovel, ~5mm narrower all over, and just a TAD more tail width (~1mm)?

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

yeah they'll be easy to resell.

Just remember the cardinal igneous blunder people make is letting ego decide their flex #, unless you're a huge powerful skier you don't need anything more than 240 and probably a lot less.

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I'm not getting these based on ego. My last six pairs of skis were as follows, Ak rockets (jumping up from 175 85mm waisted skis) ARVs, ANTs, EHPs, 193 m103s, and 194 Squads. With the exception of the ARVs, I was pretty afraid of every single one of those skis owning me before I actually skied them. After trying the m103s and squads, I came to the conclussion that the "no mortal can ski those" talk is bullshit. I really think certain kinds of skis are hyped up WAY too much. No ski is hard to ski once you get it to its happy place, speed wise. If you like to ski fast more than billy goat, why not get skis that have a faster happy place?

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Originally Posted by pechelman

i thought you were a tiny guy leeeeeeeeroy.
like 5'8 160'ish?

youve got no business on a 250 200cm iggy FFF.
pretty much no one does.

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5' 9" and 150, and thats the whole reason I want hudge skis, is because people keep calling me tiny and it hurts my feelings. ;)

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Originally Posted by pechelman

marshal disagrees with you
http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...hlight=igneous

ETA, the discussion above was for 190cm vs the 200cm foolishness here in this thread

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That thread was also about flex 265 skis. My only concern is float. I have been told squads are just too damn stiff to float, and that makes sense, although I've only had mine in corn, and some grauply manky stuff. I pretty much want my FFFs as stiff as they can be while still allowing the tip to flex in pow. I'm now thiking a bit softer, 240 seems to be $ from what I'm reading, so something around there.

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

dude, shut up! I know there are a lot of vultures waiting in the wings for these to come back on the market "twice skied/once drilled" for a cut rate price :FIREdevil :FIREdevil :FIREdevil :FIREdevil

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Don't count on it. I am a huge believer in the idea that you buy a ski that fucking scares the shit out of you, and ski it till you're a good enough skier that you can own it.

I didn't think this thread would turn into a dickwaving contest, but I should have known. These are huge skis, and I am psyched

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Originally Posted by pechelman

question in general for you iggyskier

you say you dont think iggy FFF's have pin tail geometry, yet the wasit\tail width difference is only 7mm total, which is to say, that its only 3.5mm wider in the tail than it is at the waist on one side of the ski. Thats roughly only the width of an edge. This fact, in and of itself, makes this ski a pintail on paper. (imo)

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Ok, I'm not iggy skier, and I haven't skied the FFFs (obviously) but I think theres a lot more than just the tip/waist/tail widths that make a ski feel like a pintail. I think the flex of the tail, and shape of the tail (camber wise, not width wise) determine a whole lot. EHPs go noodly in the tail, and also have a turned up tail, so they feel like a pintail. Its also more than just the numbers because the EHPs numbers seem to be measured in weird spots. The 118mm measurement is definitly not right at the tail, because they start tapering a good 5-10cm before it.


EDIT: I think I've gotten the info I need out of this thread. The FFFs are not super lively, but it sounds like they won't have that "I'm skiing with anvils on my feet" feel of the m103s if you ever try and ski them slow or hop turn them. It also sounds like they don't really feel like a pintail when you ski em, although my very last question, is who opted for the swallowtail, and who didn't? I probably won't get it, but I'm curious.

I had 183cm m103s and (briefly) those 265 flex 190cm FFFs, now hopefully with a happy home at huckwheat's friend's place.

There was no comparison. The m103s skied like a damper and heavier Explosiv, but still manageable. The FFFs were way too much for me. I sold the m103s because I like Explosivs more. (I've gone through many skis for exactly that reason; still haven't found anything I like more than the Explosiv for everything-but-powder conditions.)

FWIW, huckwheat said his friend who was getting these FFFs was something like 6'6", 250#.

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Originally Posted by pechelman

interesting to note the difference in types of pintails.
perhaps skis like the pontoon could be called true pintails, whereas skis like the dp120, ehp, fff, and big daddy could be called something like "heavy tapered pintails" or something.

either way
great response and you answered my question!
It sounds like we have a lot of the same design philosophy with regard to sidecut on wider skis.
how would you feel if your FFF's were rockered or had a long shovel, ~5mm narrower all over, and just a TAD more tail width (~1mm)?

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yeah, it is getting harder and harder to really agree upon what is what.

Regarding camber.....my favorite topic. I have been building my own skis recently and what I want to mess with most is camber. The FFF have a fair bit of camber and the tips are surprisingly small. If I could change one thing on that ski, I would rocker the tips. Doesn't have to be huge. The tip rocker mold I built has approximately 2cm of rise over 25cm, plus a 5.9cm high tip. Hopefully this will improve the float of the ski a lot but because the rocker isn't huge, you won't loose contact area when you drive the ski.

The FFF could be narrower, although I think the width is great. Is the ski going to be a flat tail or twinned? If there is a slight twin, adding even 3-4mm to the tail would still allow the ski to slash outwards. If it is a flat tail, I still think it would do great with a tiny bit of added tail width.

Leroy - go without the swallow tail. Particularly if you are looking for a ski that will be long. Adam will tell you this too. It makes the skis feel shorter. Both pairs of iggies I've been on had flat tails and I would go that way. The tips are so big that you don't need to have the tail sink as much. The taper or pintail design (whatever we want to call it) will do this for you.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I had 183cm m103s and (briefly) those 265 flex 190cm FFFs, now hopefully with a happy home at huckwheat's friend's place.

There was no comparison. The m103s skied like a damper and heavier Explosiv, but still manageable. The FFFs were way too much for me. I sold the m103s because I like Explosivs more. (I've gone through many skis for exactly that reason; still haven't found anything I like more than the Explosiv for everything-but-powder conditions.)

FWIW, huckwheat said his friend who was getting these FFFs was something like 6'6", 250#.

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Hmmmm.
I'm pretty much basing my ideas of the flex of Marshal's recomended skis thread,

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Originally Posted by marshalolson

RELATIVE FLEXES:
9 - titan pro / Squad / supa stiff bros (270)
8 - LP / Monster / explosiv / dp #3 / capital stiffs (260)
7 - big daddy / stockli dp (250)
6 - ANT / extra stiff kingswood / stiff bros
5 - mantra / ak swallowtail / dp #2 (240)
4 - gotama / soft bros / reg. kingswood (230)
3 - yellow ak rockets / sugar daddy ?
2 - PR / lawnchair (200 or less)
1 - sanouk/made'n
0 - green ak rockets

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Does anyone completely disagree with these comparisons?

Although I like the Ak rocket swallowtails, they are a touch too soft, no one really refers to them as a burly ski, however people are saying there is no way I should go over a 240 for the FFFs. I'm confused.

I guess I should send another email to parris asking him how much softer the tips and tails ussually are.

One problem with the relative flex scale is that it doesn't factor in the effect of a wider ski at any given flex. A 70mm groomer ski can be really stiff yet ski easily, since there's less of it resisting the skier's force. But if you add 50mm of width to that 70mm plank, it's going to be a lot harder to bend under that same skier's force.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

One problem with the relative flex scale is that it doesn't factor in the effect of a wider ski at any given flex. A 70mm groomer ski can be really stiff yet ski easily, since there's less of it resisting the skier's force. But if you add 50mm of width to that 70mm plank, it's going to be a lot harder to bend under that same skier's force.

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I definitley agree with this statement. The overall shape and girth of the FFF makes the ski extremely stable at speed without the need for a super stiff flex. I think with the extra 10cm on this ski you don't really need the extra stiffness, but that's just my opinion. I've never skied with you and don't know youre skiing style, just want you to be happy with these planks.

I would opt for no swallow. Like Iggyskier said, the skis don't really need the tails to sink more, they ski just fine as is.

There has been some great discussion in this thread though, good stuff guys.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

Although I like the Ak rocket swallowtails, they are a touch too soft, no one really refers to them as a burly ski, however people are saying there is no way I should go over a 240 for the FFFs. I'm confused.

I guess I should send another email to parris asking him how much softer the tips and tails ussually are.

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Ask Natty.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

I'm not getting these based on ego. My last six pairs of skis were as follows, Ak rockets (jumping up from 175 85mm waisted skis) ARVs, ANTs, EHPs, 193 m103s, and 194 Squads.

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I still don't think you've read and digested exactly what I said. I didn't say you're getting the skis based on ego, I said that the classic blunder on iggys is to get the flex # based on ego.

ESPECIALLY with iggys, the wider you go the softer you should get them. Even if you were to get 210s there is NO WAY that you'll be overpowering them or thinking that they're "soft" (note...I do not per se agree with the flex rating from the big list, for a variety of reasons that probably don't have a lot of bearing here). They are enormous skis and the only sin you can make with them is getting them too stiff and even though you don't, trust me: some 270rf 200cm SMFs can own you in ways a set of 194 squads can only dream at.

I own 1pr in 250 that are short (190) and skinny (79) that are fine in that incarnation. 1pr in 235 that are longish (195) and thin (88) that are fine in that incarnation. I weigh about the same but have no delusions of the grandeur of my skiing. I could totally ski 200 FFFs but if I ordered some they'd be at most 210s. They still ski like a lot of mass without being "own your ass stiff."

i'll chirp in here, real quick.

leroy, there is aboxolutely NO reason to get an FFF over 240. unless you are a big person that will ONLY be hucking and straightlining big lines. it is just not needed as an everyday fat ski. igneous even in softer flexes are so torsionally stiff compared to other skis that the longitude flex as listed on the list is very decieving (as lemon boy insinuated).

i ski'd a pair of 230# FFL's almost every day inbounds banging bumps and hard pack this season, (got them in a trade, i would prolly get them in like a 245-250 if i was to order a pair of FFL's) and though they are now closer to 210# and bent and genereally hammered, they still hook up and totally hold an edge at high speed. you can see the tip flapping at top speed, but do not feel it in your feet at all, and they do not deflect in any manner.

i ski'd the 240#'s FFF in every condition snow and never once felt like i wanted a stiffer ski. and i have 60#'s on you.

they only reason you EVER see iggy's ski for sale is cause someones ego wrote a check their body couldn't cash.

my suggestion is to talk to adam or parris and get whatever flex they recommend, even if it seems softer than you'd really want. if you trust that they are the nicest skis on the market, trust that they know what flex makes sense, but in a 200 FFF i'd think 230-240 would make sense.

Pintail is a geometry term invented by Dynastar in the mid-late nineties. It simply refers to a ski with more than average taper, designed to hook up in the tip and let go/slash easier in the tail. Generally any ski with 12mm or more taper is considered a pintail geometry.

The 20mm taper on the FFF definitely qualify it geometrically within this category. But that is not an overwhelming determinent of how it will ski so much as it is with retail skis that are all built relatively cheaply/similarly. What really makes ski tails let go too early IMO is lack of torsional rigidity in the tails, something that is clearly not an issue with Igneous skis from all that has been said. That stiffness is probably how they get away with that shape that seems unusually tapered.

Also while we're on the topic if you had to say what RA 190cm FFF was closest to brand new 189 Squads what would it be?

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Originally Posted by skimasterflex

Also while we're on the topic if you had to say what RA 190cm FFF was closest to brand new 189 Squads what would it be?

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I'd say 240-250...but even if stiffness is the same between a Squad and Iggie, it's still a VERY different feeling ski. Squads - snappy, powerful, return a lot of energy. Iggies - damp, powerful, don't really want to return that energy and just want to motor. Kinda like the Squads are a rodded-out sports car and the Iggies are a 3/4-ton diesel truck.

Advice taken.

I'm now thinking I want the 200cm FFFs in the Round Alpine flex #240, with no swallowtail. I'm maybe thinking about asking if they could make the tip more around a 230-235, for some good float.

I just have to work out the minor details with them, like asking whats the difference between the standard maple core, or the maple ash blend, and see what other woods they offer for the topsheets.

That, and save up enough money to actually pay for the things.

Thanks for all the info everyone.

-"Pintail is a geometry term invented by Dynastar in the mid-late nineties"


Dynastar invented the term "pintail" ???? Wow , hahaha , you learn something new everyday.