Really good technique shown here. Not strictly avalanche awareness related but still really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3xLshmNnk
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Really good technique shown here. Not strictly avalanche awareness related but still really good
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM3xLshmNnk
that is a good find, thanks lee!
Summits Jong!!:fmicon:
Someone should do a whippet self arrest video.
Yea, we need to have a video that shows how to whip it out........:rolleyes2 :rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by splat
Sorry, couldn't resist.....
I nominate DEVO.
Bump
thought I would post this for those of us who don't carry whippets/ice axes... have had to do this several times to prevent high speed collisions with hard stuff.
http://www.skinet.com/skinet/videos/...156886,00.html
Just thought I'd add my but... Here's me performing the ice axe self arrest on Mt Cook (Aoraki) under actual dangerous conditions. You can clearly see the drop off to the glacier below.. Good practice!!!
http://www.remoteadventurer.com/inde...=41&Itemid=102
Enjoy :)
that vid is great. it was the one that i used, along with freedom of the hills when i taught myself how to self arrest.
its amazing how many people own an axe, but don't actually know how to use it
i really don't recommend falling on your ice axe with the head directly underneath your shoulder unless you want to get a nice, sharp jab from the adze. move it up just a little bit higher next to your head and make sure to turn away from it. i also don't think he mentioned levering up on the spike end of the ice axe to get the pick to dig in even more. and lastly, if you aren't wearing crampons, use your feet to kick into the snow to stop yourself even quicker.
Thanks Lee - good vid!
Thanks for the post!
at the risk of a threadjack
at what point is carrying an ice axe useful to a backcountry skier?
thx
Climbing an icy slope or in any situation where you might want to arrest a fall.
- or - pissing off tourists in puffy jackets in the gondola
- or - a sign of virility in apres-ski to impress the cougars, doo0000d
For me, climbing on firm snow (even if the firm snow is under 3"-6" of soft snow) and slope angles above 40-45 degrees. (At lower angles too, if the surface is really icy/slick). Sometimes this may only be for the last 10-20 feet of an ascent, but having one along can take alot of the pucker out of that last little bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by acinpdx
With a ski pack on (awkward, top heavy with skis sticking out that can easily push you off your stance if you turn quickly) it probably makes sense to have one out even in some situations where it might not feel necessary when climbing without skis.
So do you typically always carry one with you in the BC during tours? I think that may be the question, as I would hope it would be apparent when out in the field when you need to get it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcf3
Seems as though some dies here in CO every couple years because they did not know how to self arrest or have an ice axe with them.
I should start carrying one when I go to Vail due to all the extreme in bounds skiing...and cougars...:eek:
BUMP.... great find.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubbers
i would think its more of a life over limb situation, you might have it pushing against you but the worst you would get is a bruise. The force applied with your arms plus the weight your upper body is far greater than any you could apply with just your arms. If you were to hit a rock whilst sliding it could deflect sideways into the side of your head and cause much more damage.
Wtf is this shit! GTFO imposter! There's only room for one hotcarl around these parts,cockgobbler....:FIREdevil:the_finge:
I was trying to find the photos of the guy that tryed to self arrest with ice axe and put the shaft diagonlly thru his thigh.
My ice axe saved my life when I was young and stupid (yeah, yeah yeahh). I thought I'd commerate my friend (and Homer LEGEND) Yule Kilcher's (RIP) famous walk across the Harding Icefield from Seward to Homer in the 1930's with my own walk over the same basic route. Yule (the grandfather of Jewel, BTW....yeah THAT Jewel) did it in corduroy pants with almost NO gear except for crampons and a decent rope. I had ALL this shit with me...transponder, high-tech hardshell boots, gore-tex up the ying-yang, nice little bivy sack; nice pad; MSR this MSR that, and my SAVIOR: an old Chouinard ice axe.
Like I said, I was young at that time and thus had the blind, perceived infallibility that comes with youth. The second day out, I was still having problems with my new crampons that would trip me up at inoppurtune times....the inoppurtune time in question being on what seemed a fairly simple traverse beside a crevasse, with good footing and plenty of distance between me and the damn yaw of that crevasse. Good footing until I trip on my fucking crampon and down I go on the ice. Wasn't sliding too fast at first so I wasn't too worried....until I started sliding faster, and faster. I thought I'd be able to arrest most of my speed with my crampons, but they had other ideas...they were flailing on the ice like silly popsicle sticks. I knew if they DID dig in, my slide might turn to an all-out tumble, which would be far worse. Ice AXe!! Somehow, it was as if I'd just remembered my ice-axe that was looped on my right hand like some souvenir, and luckily I wasn't strapped in with my poles, so my hand was free. At the time, I didn't know proper self-arrest, so I just jammed it into the ice with everything I had. I think I screamed something out loud like "NO, Mother FUCKER !!!". I stopped. I still remember those first few seconds of stillness...my life started again in those seconds. A feeling of rebirth, almost. That was the first. I've had many since then. But you always remember your first near-death. You really can hear your heart beat in those silent times between death and life, or maybe it's just that you think you should, so you do.
I had stopped about a dozen feet from the edge....a dozen feet from death. I was wearing the skis on my backpack, but I don't think they would have stuck to do any good at all, not in THAT thing. I remember actually kissing that Chouinard that afternoon...the best 40 bucks I ever spent on a piece of used equipment. It takes up a special place on the bulkhead of our boat now, still ready to use...but its main use is to remind me that you don't always get a return trip in life, so you might as well enjoy every moment.
I never did finish the complete walk that Yule did. I guess I didn't really have to. My way to commerate his life (he was 85 then and STILL homesteading) was just to be out there on that icefield, looking at the same stars he did as he walked...surrounded by the same spectors of huge blue ice that will kill you in an instant if you let it, and hoping that I could carry my way through this life with at least half the grace that that old homesteader did.
I've practice ice axe arrests a lot--never had to do one for real. Turns out it's a lot easier to actually arrest than it is to throw yourself downhill headfirst on your back to practice.
in my opinion an axe and poons are essential for big or exposed steeps, especially if you are dropping blind, axes aid in climbing of snow and ice, (plungeing is often the only way to find purchase climbing on steep snow), getting through cruxy sections of a descent, transition from skiis to poons if some shit goes down, makeing anchors/crevasse belay...and hopefully not for a self arrest -- which may not be possible.
I just finally got around to ordering the BD whippet. Have always had axe & crampons, but luckily I've never had to arrest.
Has anyone here ever had to arrest with a whippet? I did some digging (where I found this thread) here and elsewhere and only found axe arrest instructional vids. I did find this though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahhnJOSUn14
Obviously not intentional, but at least it's a data point. I presume that whippet technique is still basically the same, get both hands on the pole spaced apart, weight on the pick, etc.
Does anyone have any stories to share with a possible fall & arrest with a whippet, how the whippet held up? Any adjustments? When I get it I should just go practice of course, but was curious if anyone had any other data, tips, etc.
that video is beyond painful to watch. hmmm, pay attention much? his wandering skis tell me he should be practicing making pizza and french fries across the street on polecat.
rog
rog - how steep is that line? hard to tell if that was hard to arrest there or not - them gopros fuck me up with le angle
I'm with you, ouch.Quote:
Originally Posted by icelanticskier
It took him less than the first half of his first turn to completely fuck shit up... maybe, just maybe, he shouldn't be in there in the first place.
To contribute to the conversation, I carry an axe when climbing/skiing stuff that is steep and/or exposed because I tend to get puckered much faster climbing than I do with skis on my feet and it makes me feel better to have it.
I've never had to self arrest outside of practice but have definitely relied on both pick and shaft placements to hold me to the hill in off-balance situations where I may have tumbled if I didn't have it.
Never skied with a whippet, but there's been one on the not-so-urgent wtb list for a couple years now, so maybe someday.
Is how he fell really that important regarding whether whippet was a tool effective in a arresting fall?
Clearly it's an option better than not having one but less so than an axe.
You might want to search for straightchuter's posts regarding them for more useful input?
Nope.. just an observation that i happen to agree with, which is why I classified that the remainder of my post, for whatever it was worth, was actually intended to add to the discussion at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Dick.
;)
about 45-47 degees depending on how the snow has stacked up. so, average, but not that steep by east side george standards. and VERY straight forward view it all line. a walk up with an ice bulge that requires a whippet and or an axe/tool. about a 1000 vert to the mid apron.Quote:
Originally Posted by NoPostholio
i'm a big whippet fan. between one whippet and my beloved BD neve pro alu crampons, that combo is great for climbing/skiing anything that will hold snow of most any kind. never had to arrest before, but man o man what a nice climbing aid a whippet is.
rog
agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayPowHound
rog
Huge fan of the whippet. Great for climbing steeps and to lock gear off as you stomp a transition platform.
I have had to self arrest with a whippet before. Dropped in to Pipeline in GG last year with 4 inches of wind drive atop ice crust. Lost it on the fifth turn - tele (baseball) slide. Buried the sucker in and went into the arrest position... stopped with a couple meters.
Recovered and finished the run... the climb back out sucked, but the whippet was great for that too.
The angle spur atop the whippet helps quicken the breaking during the fall but remember feeling the jerk of it catch, however i had the wrist strap on.
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Did you boot back out from above the ice bulge? Such a classic line. RogQuote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
The comments in this TR were pretty good. It does bring up my followup question...one whippet or two? Man. It seems so conditional. Louie seemed like two saved his bacon, but I could also see if you had only one you could put more into it. I dunno! But flipside, if you drop your only whippet you're hosed. D-Roc had very good results with one.Quote:
Originally Posted by d542east
Brings up yet another question, should you ski with the wrist strap on a whippet pole, violating an old b/c rule about pole wrist straps?
Louie also hinted that he wasn't aware of any instructional videos or suggested best practices out there for whippets. They seem like a very cool invention that has some implied usage method and certainly some fans out there, but no real agreed upon use like the well tested axe. Or at least documented or easily findable for this moron (pointing at myself).
My overall reason for posting all this is that I ordered one, and didn't want to assume anything about its use in arrest.
I think I would agree with everyone on here for the ascent benefits, they seem very rad and a no brainer.
you'll be stoked you got one. One or 2? I went with 1 cuz it suits my purpose just fine which would include steep (up to about 55
degrees) on firm snow on lines up to about 1500 vert. I've never been tweaked by exposure and just the one gives me plenty to dig in on ascents with or without crampons. If I thought I needed a 2nd one I'd probably just get a short mountaineering axe/tool. I pretty much always wear my wrist straps. Losing a pole from dropping it isn't my idea of a good time. Rog
FWIW, I have two. I don't always bring both, but if I'm anticipating some serious sketch I'll take both. Other times I'll only bring one. It may just make me feel better to have two, but that's gotta be worth something. Never used them in a serious fall, but I've punched them in pretty quickly at the beginning of a slip.Quote:
Originally Posted by SILENCER
The no straps rule is for avys, right? IMO if you're worried about avys the snow conditions are such that you probably aren't worried about a screaming slide. So I wear the straps.Quote:
Originally Posted by SILENCER
No doubt someone will find problems with my thinking.
Rog.... yea booted with cramps out... the bulge was just to big at the time.... I wonder if I could just v -thread and rap with an AT rope to access the remainder of the run
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well, so often so long as you cut hard/high skiers left just above the bulge, you can usually hit a right ramp which cuts down the size of the drop to 6-8 feet, or makes it just one part air part contact traverse turn to lower skiers right. if hucking the bulge you wanna make sure you stick the landing as it's still quite steep, very narrow with high rock walls on both sides with a runout zone that melts out to a boulder field pretty quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Roc
classic, pipeline is prominent skiers left line.
http://www.bmclark.org/T4T/gg0511/headwall2_small.jpg
http://www.bmclark.org/T4T/gg0511/pipeline_small.jpg
http://www.bmclark.org/T4T/gg0511/pi..._ice_small.jpg
ice bulge closeup
http://www.bmclark.org/T4T/gg0511/pi...lose_small.jpg
http://www.bmclark.org/T4T/gg0511/pi...pano_small.jpg
i've hucked the bulge on tele gear as i knew my skis wouldn't come off on landing:)
rog