Broke Steve Moore's neck with a cheap shot!
No room for this shit..
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Broke Steve Moore's neck with a cheap shot!
No room for this shit..
http://www.foxsports.com/netapp/blob...216206_7_3.jpg
I saw it too and agree whole heartedly. Ironically enough there is this clip of Bertuzzi being interviewed after the incident where Marty McSorely hit Donald Brashear in the head with his stick knocking him out cold. Bertuzzi was saying something to the effect of "It is disgusting. There is no room in the game for stuff like that."
One thing that I always like about hockey was that there was an "honor" in the game where if guys are gonna fight they square off and do it. Cheap shots like that are for spineless cowards. If you want to "get some guy back" for a clean but hard open ice hit then do it within the rules of the game.
I really hope Bertuzzi is tried for assault. The fact this happened during a sporting event is no excuse. I disagree with people who say "fighting is part of the game." It isn't. It may be inevitable in such an aggressive contact sport, but it isn't part of the game.
Quote from Trevor Linden: "If most people knew how upset Todd was by the result of what happened they would have a different view on things." BS. I'm sure there are lots of people who feel regret after they murder someone, too.
I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?Quote:
Originally posted by Unorthodox
Cheap shots like that are for spineless cowards. If you want to "get some guy back" for a clean but hard open ice hit then do it within the rules of the game.
Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.
Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?
Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.
With you on this for sure.
There is a code and most abide by it, Bertuzzi went to far and let emotions get the best of him.
I think he should sit the season given the nature of the injuries, it's not like he gave the guy a couple of lumps he broke his frigin neck.
He should be sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole.
I don't buy that. These guys have been playing hockey since they were 5. They know the code. You don't ATTACK SOMEONE WHEN THEY AIN'T LOOKIN. Chickenshit. Bertuzzi should "know the code". And being a "superstar" and "rookie" have nothing to do with it.Quote:
just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.
I'm as big a hockey fan as they come, and am a proponent of hockey code. That said, I can't believe you're serious. You have to protect your superstars, but you do that by fighting, finishing your checks and even taking a run at a guy.Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
I'm going to guess that you were probably one of the first people jumping up to defend Hextall and his patented two handers 30 feet out of the crease, weren't you?
Bert should sit at least until the begining of the second round of the playoffs - maybe for the rest of the season. He didn't intend to hurt the kid though, just teach him that there is a 'code' in hockey, and a rookie taking a run at a superstar and hitting him with a cheap shot isn't a part of said 'code'.
How can you support an argument that he "didn't intend to hurt the kid," Bertuzzi too a run at him from the blind side, dropped a full-swing haymaker into his temple and then followed through, driving his head into the ice. Year suspension. Simple.
Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.
This punch is the most cowardly form of "enforcement" that the NHL has seen to date, and it is slowly becoming the standard. The league needs to make a statement that you cannot protect your players in a cowardly way. They have been good about allowing fighting to continue, but the cheap shots have got to go. Read this sentence and then tell me what crosses your mind:
Todd Bertuzzi skated full steam cross-ice, wound up and drilled Steve Moore in the side of the head, breaking his neck.
That isn't hockey.
I had the chance to watch ESPN classics last week and a game from the 1964 Stanly Cup was shown. I couldn't help but notice the marked difference between eras. Sure, there was some checking and hard hits back then, but nothing gratuitous like in today's game.
To add onto what Honc said--I think you should look again at what this was supposedly retaliation for. Moore wasn't trying to injure Naslund, from the replays I've seen. If Naslund hadn't been leaning way forward at the time, he probably would have been fine. There's no rule, though, that you have to stay out of someone's way if they're leaning forward and going for a puck that's almost out of their reach--even if it is a superstar and the other guy's a rookie.
Then look at exactly what Bertuzzi did--not only did he land a haymaker on the side of the guy's head from behind, but he was holding his jersey from the back at the same time. And then, of course, he rode him into the ice. And all that after Moore had already fought in the first period. It's definitely bullshit, but I don't know about legal action.
yeah that hit was about the biggest load of crap I've seen in hockey. bastard deserves to sit the rest of the season for certain.
it's one thing to enforce, but another with malicious intent. heard on tv some of the vancouver players had been talking about 'teaching him a lesson' prior to the game. Usually when the other player is laying face down in a pool of blood and not moving- it's a sign to stop beating the crap out of someone.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear....let me try to do a bit better.
I am not saying that what Bertuzzi did was clean, or right, or acceptable within the game of hockey (or life for that matter). I agree that you need to come down on this type of action swiftly, and appropriately.
That said, I don't believe that Bertuzzi was out to injure this kid. The way I see the play is that he grabbed his sweater to try and get him to turn around, took a swing (definate cheap shot) and momentum carried him forward. It certainly was cheap, definately deserving of a suspension, but he wasn't trying to end the guys season or career.
Honc - you are right to say this is a cowardly way to enforce, and to try and protect star players. I will not argure with anyone who says that.
I guess the only point that I was trying to make was that this most likely wasn't a premeditated - lets go out there and try to f*ck this guy up - act.
If they were talking about "teaching him a lesson" BEFORE the game, then it WAS premeditated..
Beating the living shit out of Moore may have been premeditated but there is no way that the intent of that hit was to seriously injure him. Yes it was a cheap shot from behind, but to me it looked like bertuzzi was just getting in the first shot and expected Moore to turn around arms swinging so they could go at it. I mean what are they chances that if you take a swing at a guy wearing a helmut with a gloved hand that you are gonna knock him out with one punch? Then momentum took them both to the ground and Bertuzzi landed on more still expecting him to jump up and start fighting.
If the league didnt have the Instigator rule this would have never have happened like it did, Bertuzzi should be suspended for a long while, but it seems to be more of a freak accident than a premeditated hit to take him out of the game.
Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..
yeah it looked like he was out cold before he hit the ice. Sucker punch in the temple tends to do that to a guy. Sportscenter ran a highlight reel of the most brutal/illegal hits of all time. Not the worst but definitely up there. It wasnt as bad as some of the times that players purposely hit other players in the head or face with their stick, but as far as hits goes, i would put it up there.Quote:
Originally posted by DaveTV
Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..
Ever seen the movie Slapshot?, May's comments were a joke, quoted from that movie. Dont forget this isnt the first game they've played against them since the naslund incident.Quote:
Originally posted by DaveTV
If they were talking about "teaching him a lesson" BEFORE the game, then it WAS premeditated..
Moore's hit on Naslund was cheap, you can't be chasing a puck, see a star player in the corner of your eye, then decide the puck isnt important, and turn to hit the guy blindside when you see he's not looking. That is cheap. Did it deserve retaliation? hell yea. Did he deserve to have a broken neck?, not necessarily but should he have expected that something like that could possibly happen, yes he should've.
There's a thousand ways this could've been prevented, had moore not been on the ice, or had the league given him a penalty or suspension are too major ones that stick in my mind.
If you get in a fight at a bar, and you run and punch a guy, your momentum carries you both to the floor and the guy lands on a broken bottle which kills him did you intend to kill the guy? No way, you intended to scrap with him, but shit happens. Should you be blamed for that shit?
Dude, are you a doctor? Do you know exactly where in this whole mele that one of his vertebrae was fractured? It was an unfortunate accident, but an accident (refering to the injury) none the less.Quote:
Originally posted by DaveTV
Dude, watch the film - it wasn't the PUNCH the broke his neck, he slammed his head to the ice AFTER the punch,(no he wasn't turned around either, all from behind..) Then proceeded to continue pummeling him while he was face down, helpless with a broken neck..
I would say yes.Quote:
Originally posted by 778skier
If you get in a fight at a bar, and you run and punch a guy, your momentum carries you both to the floor and the guy lands on a broken bottle which kills him did you intend to kill the guy? No way, you intended to scrap with him, but shit happens. Should you be blamed for that shit?
Sports has usually been consistant for punishing the act, rather than the consequences. Comparing sports acts to "real life" examples has never, will never, and is never relevant. They're two entirely different worlds.
Bertuzzi is a huge. His listed weight was 35 lbs. greater than Moore's. I don't believe his intentions were to break his back or knock him out. He'll do his 20-25 games and have to watch his back every time he plays Colorado. That will be sufficent.
Viva - Because of the reduced goal scoring and the excellent special teams that most playoff teams have, playoff hockey is very different from regular season hockey. Overall, fighting and "goon" injuries are down from previous decades as well.
A 1964 Stanley Cup game and division rivalry for playoff positioning are extremely hard to compare.
Head down? yes.Quote:
Originally posted by Honc
Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him.
Clean hit? No.
Moore threw a hit to the head of one of the leading scorers in the league. Intentional or not, still a head shot that drew blood, and knocked Naslund out for 3 games.
What Bertuzzi did was stupid. I feel sick for both of them (being a big fan of Bertuzzi). But watch highlights of what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom. He blatantly punched him in the back of the head, knocked him cold. Beukeboom had concussion problems, ended up retiring. Johnson got 12 games. How can you say Bertuzzi should be kicked out of hockey when Johnson only got 12 games for this? I know Moore is pretty seriously injured, but the incidents are comparable......
Good point fridge - I had totally forgotten about the Johnson / Beukeboom incident.
The NHL needs to punnish the act, not the concequence, and I am fairly certain (or at least hopeful) they will do that in this case.
But that's not what happened. They were both going for the puck, Moore knew Naslund was there and didn't change his path. You don't have to get out of the way for people in this game. If Naslund had been keeping his head up he woulda been OK.Quote:
Originally posted by 778skier
Moore's hit on Naslund was cheap, you can't be chasing a puck, see a star player in the corner of your eye, then decide the puck isnt important, and turn to hit the guy blindside when you see he's not looking. That is cheap. Did it deserve retaliation? hell yea. Did he deserve to have a broken neck?, not necessarily but should he have expected that something like that could possibly happen, yes he should've.
Keep your stick on the ice and your head up, kids!
True dude!!!! Moore layed a CLEAN hit on Naslund.....verified by the fact that he was never fined or disciplined for the clean hit he laid on him 3 weeks ago. Why didn't the Canucks go after Moore last week in Denver? Instead they waited until a BLOWOUT to try to enact some revenge since the game was long over. Nice job by May also, taunting Aebuscher after he scored the two goals to make it a "close" game at 5-2. Fucking punk. Scoreboard prick....Quote:
Originally posted by Honc
Moore didn't even throw a cheap-shot at Naslund, he stepped up at center ice when Marcus had his head down and laid a clean hit on him. I am all for teaching this kid a lesson, but have Bertuzzi drop his gloves and pummel him like a man.
Lets hope Bertuzzi is out atleast the rest of this season and that the Canucks get hammered in the first round cause the idiot took himself out for the season. Or better yet, they run into the AVs and get swept in 4 games while Moore watches on from the bench and laughs.
Good luck getting anywhere in the post season with Tommy Salo as part of your dynamic goaltending duo. He's been brutal since he got hit in the head by Belarus.
Naslund did have his head down, but Moore still hit him in the head. The Nhl always talks about how it has to protect its star players. Did you watch the World Juniors this year? Dion Phaneuf layed a devastating hit on a Czech player (shoulder hit him in the face). Phaneuf gets 5 and a game. Now, international refereeing (sp?) is different..... Even if it looked clean, it was still (now I'm repeating myself) a head shot that knocked out a leading scorer for 3 games, and drew blood. It doesn't look like much of an elbow, and thats why there wasn't league action, but there should have been a penalty called in the game.Quote:
Originally posted by Dexter Rutecki
But that's not what happened. They were both going for the puck, Moore knew Naslund was there and didn't change his path. You don't have to get out of the way for people in this game. If Naslund had been keeping his head up he woulda been OK.
Keep your stick on the ice and your head up, kids!
edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.
If you know anything about how cervical fractures happen and I do. From watching the tape it looked to me like his neck was slightly flexed and the impact was to the top of the head as he hit the ice. This is the classic mechanism for cervical fractures. Its called axial loading. The same mechanism that causes fractures during spearing in football. IMHO there is no way the punch caused a cervical fracture. I was most definitely the impact on the ice along with the added 245 pounds of body weight of someone drivnging his head into the ice that caused the fracture. I just looked at the tape again and it looks like he was knocked out from the punch but I doubt the punch caused the fracture.Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
Dude, are you a doctor? Do you know exactly where in this whole mele that one of his vertebrae was fractured?
I heard this on AM radio yesterday think i'll throw this out there.
"if Moore was given even a 1 game suspension without pay, would this have occured???"
I thought it was a interesting point, since obviously the Canucks felt that they were wronged when the NHL ruled that it was a clean hit and did not punish Moore. But how many times did the guy have to fight?? (didnt watch the game but heard he dropped the gloves 2 times before Bertuzzi hit him). Also shame on Canucks manager(s) or whoever said there was a "bounty" out on Moore. Watch out this is going to be ugly for a while.
Amen.Quote:
Originally posted by fridge
edit-None of this matters anyway, it's what Bertuzzi did that matters right now. Since that hit on Naslund I've watched Moore play a few times, and I don't especially like the way he plays, but he still didn't deserve this.
They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.
I don't like Moore's play much either, but I guarantee that his career prospects outside of hockey are pretty bleak.
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.Quote:
Originally posted by Honc
Amen.
They gave McSorley a year. Should they do the same to Bertuzzi? He didn't give out a 2-hand but the effects appear to be worse. I think that the league has to take a firm stance.
There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.
Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.
Just for the record here - McSorley's NHL punishment was one year, but he "retired" at the end of the 2000 season resulting in the actual suspension to be 23 games.
I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.
George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.
Quote:
Originally posted by fridge
What Bertuzzi did was stupid. I feel sick for both of them (being a big fan of Bertuzzi). But watch highlights of what Matt Johnson did to Jeff Beukeboom. He blatantly punched him in the back of the head, knocked him cold. Beukeboom had concussion problems, ended up retiring. Johnson got 12 games. How can you say Bertuzzi should be kicked out of hockey when Johnson only got 12 games for this? I know Moore is pretty seriously injured, but the incidents are comparable......
No. Not close to comparable. We're talking about a broken fucking neck here. Whether he was trying to seriously injure Moore is irrelevant. It was the ugliest, most gutless act the NHL has ever seen, resulting in a severe life changing injury. The punishment should be the harshest ever handed out by the league. The rest of this year and all of next, minimum.
What was galling to me was he was on top of him while he was face-down, continuing the pummeling while the guy was helpless and unconcious with a broken neck - had to be dragged off like he was an animal..
The blind side sucker punch was bad in itself, but that's not the whole of it. The action of slamming an unconscious persons head into the ice with all of your weight on his neck, then continuing to beat him in his own pool of blood is far worse than any single stick swinging incident. This wasn't just a quick hit, it was a series of ugly actions by Bertuzzi.Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
You can't punnish based on the result - you have to look stictly at the action. I am not sure if this is worse than McSorley's slash on Brashear, besides McSorley used a stick, Bert used a fist.
There is already pretty good precident in place that says a sucker punch to the back of the head is worth 12 games - and that came from an incident where someone's career WAS ended.
Bert will get more than 12. If I was a betting man, my money would be on 20.
And yes, you can and should punish based on the result.
The result and the actions are tied together. That's what happens when you do something of that magnitude - you break a person's fucking neck. If you shoot a person in the head, they die. Cause and effect are tied into one.
edit: If McSorley jumped on Brashear after knocking him out, and started beating him, then the incidents would be comparable.
Hey Canuk I respect your opinions especially because you are a hockey fan.Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
Good luck getting anywhere in the post season with Tommy Salo as part of your dynamic goaltending duo. He's been brutal since he got hit in the head by Belarus.
IMHO When Bertuzzi sucker punched him and deliberately drove him into the ice and punched him again,
I think his emotions got the best the best of him, I dont care what any one says I will always believe his act was premiditaded & he had the intent to hurt. Bertuzzi punched & drove the kid into ice, that is the bottom line. He's screwed and so is his team as they are not as strong with out him. Its too bad that such a stud has such little brain. I like Bertuzzi and I almost feel sorry for him. I just hope everyone learns from this.
FYI: Salo was not brought on to start. he will play behind David Aberischer.
I think this is what the Avalanche needed to play in the next level.(Red Wings) we will see tonight against EDM
Aw...shucks. Thanks Honc. It's one of my all time favorites as well. Will Ferrell's GWB impression is a classic.Quote:
Originally posted by Honc
I'd like to take a quick time-out from this hockey debate to acknowledge Canuk's sig. That sketch is arguably the funniest SNL bit I have ever seen.
George W. offers the job of 'Secretary to the Interior' to his Chi-Chis waiter. Priceless.
Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.
Bertuzzi's actions are clearly punishable, but is he the only one at fault? the league breeds this shit. i wasn't at the game, but accounts from Avs players and Granato is that Crawford stood in the box laughing during the incident. Granato was going off on him from over the glass when he saw his "body language". i'm sure Crawford changed his tone when he realized the severity, but regardless he apparently got a kick out of Bertuzzi's sucker-punch.
the coach shares some responsibility if he's reinforcing this kinda shit.
Hmmm... I do see your point, though it wasn't Beukebooms first or second concussion. The next time Lindros gets laid out, his career probably will end, but it won't be due to a one time incident. It will be because he's had a bunch of them.Quote:
Originally posted by Canuk
Duph - we are comparing a fractured vertibrae (which we do not no the severity of - I am sure there are a number of maggots here who have suffered a fractured vertibrae and still ski hard) with perminent brain injury. I think that the comparison is fair.
edit: Yeah jibij, that's a really good point. The Canucks as a whole should also be punished with a stiff fine or something. As well as severe punishment for the individual who carried out the act.
And agreed Canuk, 88 should 86 his career before he ruins his life.
Well, one thing's for certain... this will take away some attention of the av's - red wings rivalry. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot more quick whistles on the ice over the next few weeks and into the early rounds of the playoffs as the refs and league try to assert a little more control. Any word on Moore's condition?