One Ski Quiver?

Like to consult the community's wisdom again.

Just passed on my 188 Bros - which I loved for 80% of the stuff I usually ski - to a buddy begging for them and are in the market for a replacement now. Favorably in a 183/184 lenght as maneuverable mountaineering but also all purpose one quiver tool.
With the Bros not opting in that length and my 179s set up for AT skiing too short I'm looking for other options with comparable features (stiff, light, about 100 underfoot, without too much sidecut). Bomber edgehold is a must for the icy steeps. Plan right now is to set them up with an AT binder. Since purchase's probably made for next season suggestions can include 07/08 models.
Me stoneold fart, 5'9'', about 170 lbs, crippled with crump in back, athritis on knees but still going somehow.
Thanks for advice.

Your're Gay!

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Originally Posted by Rascal King

Your're Gay!

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Won't go anal with you, sorry. Thanks for stopping in.

Hicks

I highly recommend the 183 06/07/08 Gotama as a one-ski quiver. Despite the shitty season here I had fun on these sticks regardless of the conditions. The bombinate through icy groomers with almost race-ski like edgehold and stiffness, surprisingly quick edge to edge and they are insane in pow.

You did mention you didn't want too much sidecut. At 133-105-124 it's radius is at 25.9

Demo a pair if you have the chance and you too will be going "OOORORRRGGGRRGGHHHHHH"

180 BD Verdict? Running length is about 5-6cm longer than 179 Bros.
Similar dimensions. Moderately stiff and light too.

Ditto on what Punani said, though mine are the 04-05 (a little straighter and softer).

SuPu and Irul,

Thanks for the heads up on the Gots. I test rode the 183s a couple of days ago upon Skier666's recommendation - very nice ski but they are a tad too short. Measured STRAIGHT (which I admit not having clarified in my first post) they only come out at 179. Couldn't try the 190s yet, maybe need to in case they come out shorter too.

Sar13, thanks, will look at those too.

4frnt makes a very similar ski to the gotama called the VCT\EHP

either a 182 VCT or a 190 EHP
last year it was called the 190 VCT
its a little confusing

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Originally Posted by Rascal King

Your're Gay!

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Nutcracker loves The King... Does The King love Nutcracker???

http://www.magicmakers.com/retail/costumes/nutmouse.jpg

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Originally Posted by pechelman

4frnt makes a very similar ski to the gotama called the VCT\EHP

either a 182 VCT or a 190 EHP
last year it was called the 190 VCT
its a little confusing

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How stiff? Like lets say Explosives? If so that'd be fine.

For me, I'd say a one ski quiver would be:

ak rocket swallowtails
ants
possibly 189 squads, though i haven't skied them yet
maybe some mojo 105s or 103s

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Originally Posted by Hicks

How stiff? Like lets say Explosives? If so that'd be fine.

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I was on the 182s, which I found too short, but just about the right stiffness for what I wanted. I might relate them to a 5-6ish on Marshals scale maybe?

The 190, which Id probably reccomend for you given the size ski you want and the large twin, supposedly flexes stiffer than the 182. I cant comment on it for sure, but I would speculate it would be a solid 6, or possibly even a 7, on marshal's scale.

The VCT i was on, had a much more even flex than compared to the 180 buddahs I had for a season. If I had to guestimate, since I have neither ski anymore, Id say the 182 VCT flex is somewhere between the explosiv softer tip and stiffer mid section.

Also worth mentioning, is that Im pretty sure the VCT\EHP is lighter than the equivalent gotama.


another ski to consider is a 183 mojo103. If youre interested in one, pm me as I have a pair Im considering selling, although shipping costs might be prohibitive to Eurozone.

I don't know too much about the VCTs, but they sound like they would be a good fit.

I'm not sure how much you are looking to spend, but a 185 Wailer 95 might be the perfect fit. It is "only" 95 in the waist, but it should do everything well. If you choose to go longer, then the 188 Wailer 105 would be the ski. Depending on how stiff you want them you could get them flexed at either 2 or 3.

Another option on the softer side would be the 185 Rossi Scratch BC/Sickbird. I would probably put the flex somewhere between a 4-5 on marshal's scale.

The 190 VCT I flexed (sadly didn't have a change to ski it), felt quite a bit like old Goats. Similar flex and even widenss, though the twintip tail wasn't as square.

Actually, i don't know shit about 98% of these boards, but do know that my 05/06 Rossi B3's, about 94-95 underfoot, is one light, stable, fun mo-fckn ski in the 185. Flex felt soft by hand, but on the snow they seem to hold great. Just 2cents, ask some of the smart mags if you end up considering them...

I also have not skied enough of these skis to do a fair comparasion, but I know I would EASILY choose my Explosive 190 as my only ski. If I were a bit more "casual" in my style or were to ski mostly smaller stuff or slower I could imagine my Mantra 184 as my only ski too. The Mantra is a less exciting ski, but actually a great easy going all round ski which still offers performance when you ask it to and has a nice floaty feeling considering the dimensions.

I second the 180 verdicts. I've been riding on these for almost 2 seasons now. Solid and secure in high consequence lines in the high country and just about as fun as any other ski I've skied in the powder at high speeds.

189 Seths w/ NX21.

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Originally Posted by Hicks

SuPu and Irul,

Thanks for the heads up on the Gots. I test rode the 183s a couple of days ago upon Skier666's recommendation - very nice ski but they are a tad too short. Measured STRAIGHT (which I admit not having clarified in my first post) they only come out at 179. Couldn't try the 190s yet, maybe need to in case they come out shorter too.

Sar13, thanks, will look at those too.

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That's the prob- the 183s are exactly the same length as my 181 1080s. I tried the 190s recently and I probably would have bought them instead. They bomb even harder and faster and they rode more like my 185 Iggy FGS in terms of running length.

Hitme, finally hit the answer on the head. The Mantra is a GREAT one ski quiver option. Hicks said he wants something with a longer running length then the 183 Goats, well, the 184 Mantra is certainly that. I know there are some gripes about how turny or hooky they can be sometimes, but in my eyes, that makes them even better AT ski; You'll be able to ski a wide variety of terrain on them, they are still stiff enough to get mach-looney, and they'll float well too.

I have set up a pair of 184 Mantras (05-06) with some freerides and have absolutely loved the decision.

I second that option.

186 legend pro is better 1-ski quiver than the mantras IMO. MUCH better on harder snow, also great in soft stuff obviously.

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Originally Posted by leroy jenkins

For me, I'd say a one ski quiver would be:

ak rocket swallowtails
ants
possibly 189 squads, though i haven't skied them yet
maybe some mojo 105s or 103s

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Aren't all those skis' tails a little stiff to be tailgunning all the time?

188 m103? Do those come in a 183?

I skied Summit's 183 04/05 (?) Goats on Naxos yesterday in some pretty heavy 8" deep stuff. It was weird switching directly from my Lotuses to those, so I didn't really have time to get used to them, but what I did notice is that they felt really damp, which I liked. No chance to try them on hard pack so take this FWIW to you.

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Originally Posted by Deep Days

188 m103? Do those come in a 183?

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they do indeed.

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Originally Posted by Pechelman

another ski to consider is a 183 mojo103.

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How about the DP Wailer 105? I don't know how they ski, but they are going to be stiff and light.

i'd suggest a pair, actually.

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/1...esliderve3.jpg

I'm sorry. It had to be done.

Have a look at next years Watea 94 or the 192 Watea. I belive it to be the evolution of the Atua. 186 94 waist and about a 22m turning radius and square tail.

I picked up a pair of the 192 Watea's (134-101-124 25m radius) and love them. I skied my Super Stiff Bros and the 193 iM103 and didn't feel at home on either ski. Since the first run I havn't found a single condition or situation that I didn't love the skis. Even with the higher side cut you can still arch huge turns or short radius. I've stood on a few hard packed steeps and they hold an edge no problem. They hand flex soft, but I have no hesitation straightlining anything I would and did on my 103 Monsters. Where my stiff skis would kill me after a couple hours in the trees these are wonderful and I am not toasted by the end of the day.

For next season I want to either mount this set with Dukes and then get a pair of the 94's to mount with Dynafits. Or just get another pair of the 101's and mount then with Dynafits. My idea is that if Spirit 3's with a few mods feel stiff enough to be my one boot for in-bounds and touring then have the same alpine and touring ski so that things always feel the same. No messing around with skiing things that feel different.

http://www.freeride.se/img/content/normal/1837.jpg

Thanks guys for all your input so far. Quite a few options left to check out.

The 183/184 ballpark is mainly for the really tight spots and sometimes ridiculously crappy conditions we get here, otherwise I could have just continued skiing on the 188 ss Bros.

Shirk, I hear you but did you try the Wateas in such spots and how much of a bitch are they to slog around on a long bootpack climb? Mountaineering will be a major emphasis (and I'm twice your age so call me 'Daddy':p )

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?
S.O. told me the 07/08 Mantras come wider underfoot and stiffer, true? If so that could be what I'm looking for.

I have too many skis back home just collecting dust so streamlining my quiver makes perfect sense.

Hicks, how about the trusted Atomic Sugar Daddy in 183...

As for the new Mantra, well it's wider but the construction is the same... So should not be "stiffer"... Of course the few extra mm in wideness might make it a bit stiffer.

Or as shirk said, the new 94 Watea would be swell ski... Not a full twin like the Atua.

Also Blizzard Argos or Big Akira might be good options (w/ Blizzard branded Dukes).

As for the length, I skied some pretty tight and messy conditions in Verbier the lest few weeks and its amazing how much easier a 184 Mantra is than a 190 Explosive. Its not that the longer ski is that hard to ski in these conditions, but when swapping back and forth it is very evident how much more relaxed you can be on the shorter (and slightly less agressive) Mantra. I would myself never choose a ski based on this "easyness" (I'm VERY willing to pay the price of some more work in these situations to gain some things in other areas) but it is still interesting to notice the difference.

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

skis I guess you would like:

scott santiago pure
rossi squad (check 'em for cheap on ebay)
DPS wailer 105 or lotus 120
armada ant

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Originally Posted by HitMe

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

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The importer I was chatting with, said that the core and all are the same, just the few mm wider. So flex "should" be the same... Naturally the few mm will make the ski a tad stiffer, and the effective stiffness will at least be there (same stiffness, but the wider ski will "feel" stiffer when skiing).

Though, mebbe the rep. was full of it... Pagin' Sqauretail:D.

Hemas, already got 180 Heli Daddys which are Sugars with the kicked up tail cut off. Skis pretty short too and like a wood core ski better but will give it another shot interimly. Will check out your other suggestions.

HitMe, hoped they just beefed it up underfoot, increased sidecut is not what I'm actually looking for. Jump turns on steeps, not carving capabilities.

Verbier, regular Pures aren't beefy enough underfoot and Ants flexed too soft for my taste. Will look into your other proposals.

Old Titan Pro... Learn to live with the 193 lenght :fmicon:

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Originally Posted by HitMe

Regarding the 07/08 Mantras, they are supposedly slightly stiffer and 2mm wider underfoot and 3mm front and back (so slightly turnier). I have not skied the 08, but from my general experience I think the character of the ski will stay pretty much the same. A few mm give or take will not do much for float in pow. Flex changes is just as important. My prediction is that slightly stiffer and slightly wider will make pow float feel similar but make hard snow performance slightly better.

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I skied the 06/07 Mantra in the morning and the 07/08 in the afternoon about two weeks ago, both in the 184 cm length. As you already guessed, the difference between them is hardly noticeable. The 07/08 felt ever so slightly more stable at speed compared to the 06/07 but that might have been more of a placebo effect than anything else...


My day-to-day ski is the 05/06 Mantra, mounted 1.5 cm back. I forgot to check if the mount point is different between the different model years or if it stayed the same.

Hicks, Hemas, PeterK:

About mounting, I have mine 2cm back and it works like charm. I have tried the 184 also mounted 1cm forwards, on the line and 1cm back. For pist skiing, particularly slow on small hills, on the line is nice. For all round use, I would say anywhere from 1 to 2cm back is best (based on 305mm boots).

About sidecut: It is indeed +3, +2, +3 so there is more sidecut, but 1mm more is nothing in practice as PeterK also indicates. Remember that the Explosive is a full cm narrower in the top with about the same waist as the Mantra. Now we're talking noticeable difference.

Regarding stiffness: If memory serves, Squaretail wrote in an earlier thread the 08 is slightly stiffer because the wood core extends slightly more forwards (but the construction as such is the same). Other sources have been saying the same stiffness though, but even if the construction (incloding core length) is exactly the same, 3mm+ up front should mean around 5% stiffer.

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Originally Posted by Hicks

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?

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This years and all past have been foam.

Next years version which is already on bdel's euro website is being advertised with a wood core (as are the rest of their lineup).

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Originally Posted by Hicks

Thanks guys for all your input so far. Quite a few options left to check out.

The 183/184 ballpark is mainly for the really tight spots and sometimes ridiculously crappy conditions we get here, otherwise I could have just continued skiing on the 188 ss Bros.

Shirk, I hear you but did you try the Wateas in such spots and how much of a bitch are they to slog around on a long bootpack climb? Mountaineering will be a major emphasis (and I'm twice your age so call me 'Daddy':p )

Weightwise the Verdict looks interesting but doesn't have a wood core, right?
S.O. told me the 07/08 Mantras come wider underfoot and stiffer, true? If so that could be what I'm looking for.

I have too many skis back home just collecting dust so streamlining my quiver makes perfect sense.

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I certainly didn't find them to be too heavy. The 94's will be lighter obviously. I havn't read all of the Ski Weight thread but maybe the 08 weights are in there already. The 101's are wood core with a great feel. Maybe check if you can demo a pair of there in your euro land.

There should be a bunch of demo tents set up at WB here shortly so I'll try and demo them for you.

Many worthy suggestions to look into, thanks a bunch guys. :yourock:
Will let you know what I ended up on but that'll take a while I guess.

Edit: might add Kingswood midfats to the list in a 185 length.

I haven't skied them, but I'm hearing fantastic things about the 185 Black Diamond Kilowatt. 127-95-116, 24.5m radius. 3.5 kg/pair in 175. Wood core.

Lou Dawson's review here.