Ever had your max heart rate measured?

And if so, how did it differ from what the standard formulas estimated it as?

I'm asking because I'm planning on doing Outside's Shape of Your Life program this summer as training for a trail marathon in early fall. All of the cardio is based around heart rate training. Last summer I took AC's heart rate monitor out on a few runs out of curiosity. My average heart rate during a 1-1.5 hour run was around 180. All the MHR formulas put my max at ~195, which would mean that I was running at 92% of my MHR for over an hour. As much as I would like to believe that I am really badass, I'm guessing that my actual MHR is just higher than the formulas predict.

If I'm going to take the time and effort to really train I want to do it right, any suggestions?

I did mine on a treadmill during a VO2max test. My max HR was 205. I can't recall the standard calculation but I was 25 at the time.

Your estimate of your Max sounds too low. You should be close to passing out when you're at your max HR. For obvious reasons make sure you're in a safe area when you try to put out the necessary effort to get a true max HR and also make sure you have someone close by to give you a hand if needed.

You're probably more badass than you give yourself credit for. That said, I think you'd know if you ran for 1-1.5 hours at 92% max HR! I think my legs would have been lunchmeat if I tried that.

I had HR measured once while doing a VO2 max test on a treadmill. My calculated Max HR came out pretty close to what the various standard formulae predicted for my age. But that was a much more sophisticated device than a portable HR monitor.

Does this program you're doing offer a VO2 max test? I think you'd dig that as well as get some neat info about yourself.

Do a search on AC's HR monitor and see if it's know for its accuracy. You may find some useful comments from other users on how to best use that particular model for a given situation.

Have fun and happy trails!

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Originally Posted by Viva

That said, I think you'd know if you ran for 1-1.5 hours at 92% max HR! I think my legs would have been lunchmeat if I tried that.

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Yeah, I figured that it was pretty much unpossible that I was actually at that level for that long.

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Originally Posted by Viva

Does this program you're doing offer a VO2 max test?

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Heh, no. Shape of Your Life

Her monitor is a Polar B3 which seems to have a pretty good reputation.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

For obvious reasons make sure you're in a safe area when you try to put out the necessary effort to get a true max HR and also make sure you have someone close by to give you a hand if needed.

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Wait, is there a way to do this besides the standard treadmill test? That's all I found googling.

although it will be a different reading, do a max HR test on the bike and then estmate from there. your running MHR will be a few beats higher than your bike MHR.....or is it the other way around......shit now that is going to bother me.

The last time I measured mine it was around 193

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Wait, is there a way to do this besides the standard treadmill test? That's all I found googling.

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The standard treadmill test is basically working to exhaustion in a very controlled environment. You could theoretically replicate that on a hill that started gradually then got steeper and steeper so you put out more effort.

Just when you start feeling like you'll pass out is about when you've reached your Max HR.

if you do this right, you'll feel weak like a kitten and almost sick.

This leaves you with the problem of getting down the hill. which is why i recommended having a partner around to help you get down.

and fwiw, it is probably better to exercise around your lactate/anarobic threshold then around your max HR if you're training for long distance type events. There's a bunch of info on this in these forums and other forums.

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Originally Posted by Vinman

although it will be a different reading, do a max HR test on the bike and then estmate from there. your running MHR will be a few beats higher than your bike MHR.....or is it the other way around......shit now that is going to bother me.

The last time I measured mine it was around 193

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On bike HR is usually a little less then on treadmill HR because biking is not as weigh bearing and you have to put out less effort to put out equivalent power. I don't know if the MAx HR's will be different on bike vs on treadmill.

there is no reason to stress yourself to that level in training for a marathon anyway.

While I've never had it measured, I generally hit somewhere between 202-206 on hard climbs (i.e. the top 100 yards of puke hill). According to the generic formula, my max should be 187. Obviously that's not even close. So I base my HR training zones off 205 as my max.

MHR on the bike and MHR on the TM will definitly be different. So DTM you can prolly do a bike test add 3-5 BPM and be pretty close to your TM/running MHR.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

and fwiw, it is probably better to exercise around your lactate/anarobic threshold then around your max HR if you're training for long distance type events.

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That's the plan, but the training is all based around working in various HR zones determined as a % of MHR, so accurately knowing my MHR is important. The standard formulas obviously weren't giving me accurate results, hence the post.

The basic formula 220-age=MHR is fairly accurate, but falls off the more fit you are IMO. Another formula MHR=217 - (0.85 × age) is slightly more accurate.

It is possible to run sustained at 92% MHR, but the margins become razor thin. I completed a sub-3 marathon averaging ~92% MHR where my threshold for total blow-up was about ~93-94%. For me, this meant averaging 172bpm with a MRH of 186. I had already determined for myself through training that any sustained time above 175 would kill me.

Also, MHR measurements can vary depending on what type of machine- treadmill, bike, rowing machine- they are conducted on.

So you are likely just a badass.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

While I've never had it measured, I generally hit somewhere between 202-206 on hard climbs (i.e. the top 100 yards of puke hill). According to the generic formula, my max should be 187. Obviously that's not even close. So I base my HR training zones off 205 as my max.

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Actually puke hill would be a great place to check the MHR. Rest at the base of the climb so you can put out maximal effort and not have too much fatigue. Then make sure you put an honest effort in so that you can't possibly pedal another stroke when you get to the wasatch crest.

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Originally Posted by LeeLau

Then make sure you put an honest effort in so that you can't possibly pedal another stroke when you get to the wasatch crest.

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Wait... it's possible to ride to the top of puke hill without putting in absolute max effort? ;)

The formulas are probably quite accurate for a large percentage of people BUT will leave a significant percentage with not that useful numbers. As was mentioned that significant percentage is probably often the fittest bunch. I've known some very fit people who can't get near their estimated HR and have very low resting HR. They can still have very high VO2 uptake.

The max test is worthwhile (like you said) to give you a real number to base training on. If you get interested in it take a look at the Suunto HR stuff. They measure epoch to come up with training effect zones. Different way to do it and tell you some different stuff. Can be pretty interesting.

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Originally Posted by L7

The formulas are probably quite accurate for a large percentage of people BUT will leave a significant percentage with not that useful numbers. As was mentioned that significant percentage is probably often the fittest bunch. I've known some very fit people who can't get near their estimated HR and have very low resting HR. They can still have very high VO2 uptake.

The max test is worthwhile (like you said) to give you a real number to base training on. If you get interested in it take a look at the Suunto HR stuff. They measure epoch to come up with training effect zones. Different way to do it and tell you some different stuff. Can be pretty interesting.

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Does your max go down as you get fitter though? I thought it was more that your resting HR goes down and your recovery rate increases. My resting HR has gone down about 5bpm in the past 6 months, but I haven't thought about if my max changed since this summer.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

Does your max go down as you get fitter though? I thought it was more that your resting HR goes down and your recovery rate increases. My resting HR has gone down about 5bpm in the past 6 months, but I haven't thought about if my max changed since this summer.

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No. But you'll be able to exert yourself the same or even more at a lower HR because stroke volume (the volume of blood ejected by the left ventricle per contraction) becomes greater with increased cardiac fitness.

Has anyone tried to simply measure their pulse during an activity? Just stop, measure for 10 seconds, multiply by 6. Never tried it, but it ought to be fairly close to actual HR.

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Originally Posted by Viva

Has anyone tried to simply measure their pulse during an activity? Just stop, measure for 10 seconds, multiply by 6. Never tried it, but it ought to be fairly close to actual HR.

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I've hit 230 doing that measurement.

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Originally Posted by Viva

No. But you'll be able to exert yourself the same or even more at a lower HR because stroke volume (the volume of blood ejected by the left ventricle per contraction) becomes greater with increased cardiac fitness.

Has anyone tried to simply measure their pulse during an activity? Just stop, measure for 10 seconds, multiply by 6. Never tried it, but it ought to be fairly close to actual HR.

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Yeah, I've noticed that. It's gotten to be more work to get up to 65-75% or so than it used to be.

That works - they do it in spin class (and other cardio classes) on a regular basis. It's just easier to look at the number on my watch... I'm lazy. I know I've trained harder since buying my HRM this summer - otherwise I start feeling like I'm working hard, when it's really just that I'm hot, tired, lazy, whatever.

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Originally Posted by Viva

No. But you'll be able to exert yourself the same or even more at a lower HR because stroke volume (the volume of blood ejected by the left ventricle per contraction) becomes greater with increased cardiac fitness.

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And there is the possibility of increased mitochondrial efficiency within the muscle fibers themselves.

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Originally Posted by haydukelives

there is no reason to stress yourself to that level in training for a marathon anyway.

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Sure there is. More training effect per mile/time invested.

I'm not speaking of continuous effort at that level, but up to 20 minute intervals sometime like 9,10 weeks into the program/training cycle.

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Originally Posted by cantunamunch

And there is the possibility of increased mitochondrial efficiency within the muscle fibers themselves.

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I imagine so, but that wouldn't create selective pressure for increased stroke volume. The opposite, in fact, would it not?

As I recall, the entire heart grows as a result of long-term strenuous excercise, but the left ventricle experiences a disproportionate amount of this growth.

Squatch, you're just a studmuffin'. That is all.

I should really take some time out and review the current literature on excercise-induced cardiovascular changes. I'm going on memory here and could be totally full of it.

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Originally Posted by cantunamunch

Sure there is. More training effect per mile/time invested.

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Also, with more training and improved fitness, it ceases to be stressful.

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Originally Posted by cantunamunch

Sure there is. More training effect per mile/time invested.

I'm not speaking of continuous effort at that level, but up to 20 minute intervals sometime like 9,10 weeks into the program/training cycle.

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Also develops your reserve speed and endurance.


The plan is looking like this: 1) Find hill 2) Strap on HR monitor and run balls out up said hill until complete bodily failure 3) Look at watch and scratch number in the dirt before passing out

:D


Actually, I found something that sounds pretty good. Basically you warm up, then run flat out on a level course for 3 minutes. Follow that with 10 minutes of fast walking or gossip jogging before going flat out for another 3 minutes. Repeat one more time. Your MHR is your heart rate just before you finish the last 3 minute interval. Sounds good to me and sure beats paying for a treadmill test.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

The plan is looking like this: 1) Find hill 2) Strap on HR monitor and run balls out up said hill until complete bodily failure 3) Look at watch and scratch number in the dirt before passing out

:D

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Conveniently, my HRM will let me scroll through average and max HR in the previous session once I hit the stop button. Easier than trying to remember things as I'm about to pass out.

While I think every body is different it seems from my experiences that the formula caclulations are relatively accurate. The reading I have done seems to say that you max heart rate is more contingent upon your age than anything else, including you level of fitness...i.e. out of shape over wieght person would have roughly the same max heart rate as someone of average wieght and average fitness. I think that using the formula is a good guideline but you also have to know how your own body acts and especially for the Shape of Your Life workouts you will need to adjust the levels of the workouts to fit yourself. Also their method of getting the LT by taking a average heart rate over a 30 minute workout sets a good benchmark. It migh not be 100% accurate of your LT but its close and the idea of the workouts is to test yourself over time at that same level and see if your fitness improves. So as long as your benchmark is a benchmark you can measure your progress.


p.s.
i am in week 1 of month 3 on the shape of your life and it is a great workout plan.

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Originally Posted by altagirl

Does your max go down as you get fitter though? I thought it was more that your resting HR goes down and your recovery rate increases. My resting HR has gone down about 5bpm in the past 6 months, but I haven't thought about if my max changed since this summer.

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No if anything you MIGHT get your max to go up slightly but like Viva said get more work out of a given heart rate. What I meant is I've known people with a genetically low max heart rate but when really fit had very low resting rates. They couldn't get their heart rate up that high but still put out the work.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Actually, I found something that sounds pretty good. Basically you warm up, then run flat out on a level course for 3 minutes. Follow that with 10 minutes of fast walking or gossip jogging before going flat out for another 3 minutes. Repeat one more time. Your MHR is your heart rate just before you finish the last 3 minute interval. Sounds good to me and sure beats paying for a treadmill test.

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The whole idea of taking your heart rate up slowly is a big part. Plan A will probably end up no where near max as it will come undone with lactic overload first.

The more tests you do the better you'll get at them just by virtue of pacing up to that max output.

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Originally Posted by Viva

Has anyone tried to simply measure their pulse during an activity? Just stop, measure for 10 seconds, multiply by 6. Never tried it, but it ought to be fairly close to actual HR.

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This is what we do in swimming. We take pulse counts during and after every set. Our test for MHR is 8 times 5 minute swim on 8 minute intervals Maximum effort measuring distance and pulse after each swim. Results recorded each time.

The formulas are way off in my case. I am reasonably fit but not like a lot of people I know who have a lot more time to exercise.

After a bout of tachycardia a couple of years ago I went to a cardiologist. He gave me two nuclear stress tests. At age 47 I rean on his treadmill at the steepest incline for 30 minutes with a steady HR of 209 and blood pressure that never got higher than 130/90. After the second test, he just told me I was abnormal and he didn't have a machine that could stress me. He had no explanation for why my maximum heart rate was so high when my normal resting HR was below 50. But he said I was safe and that I didn't need to come back. I can't run fast anymore but that has more to do with wear ad tear on the bones and joints than my ability to use oxygen. I am fine in the skin track--not the fastest and not the slowest.

If ya'll haven't looked at DTM's link to "Shape of your Life," you should. I too am doing this once ski season is over, so we'll be working on this together, which is a huge help. I love the fact that this program has so much to offer and explains so much in detail as to why you are doing what you are doing...and I also love that it has a lot of plyometrics and strength training.

Good goal for sure to complete.