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particularly the Trab Stelvio Freeride and Duo Freerando. The wide-for-Trab Freeride is new this year, and the Freerando was changed for 06/07 with a little extra width and the split tip and tail.
Anyone ski either of these? Thinking about lighter touring skis that don't compromise descending. Looking for some real world feedback. Thanks.
Todd, just get some 201 Asteroids and call it good :tongue:
I have tried the Stelivio from my shops demo fleet, but havent gotten around to the Freerando (We have the orange topsheet one, I believe thats this years). I hadnt really known too much about Trabs until this year as my shop started to get some in and to my surprise they are quite fun to ski and tour with.
I toured with the Stelvios for a couple of days about a month back and they certainly surprised me and I defiently did underrate them. At 84 underwaist they, for me, were that great midfat, bit stiffer, all mountain ski that were stiff enough to just let loose and take big and fast GS style turns and also narrow enough to really have fun in the really right trees. Aswell at 84 underfoot they floated quite well, but could have used a bit of softening up to really maximize the float potential.
So the the days that I skied them (about 10 in total) I went through the common ice, hardpack, crud, and powder.
Ski: 178 Trab Stelvio
Me: 180 pounds, 181 cm, agressive skier
Touring: Considering my main touring that I do is just 2-3 day long yoyoing trips and since Im used to hauling my Seths these were really nice to haul uphill. They werent the lightest of the light of course, but considering this is a wood-cored ski they werent that bad off. I was able to haul them quite a few more time up than I would have with my Seths and the performance on the way down was quite nice. They do have a good weight to performance ratio whereas with other ski that are a lot lighter you start to sacrifice performance and durability (ie. Goode Carbons, Dynafit skis).
Hardpack: You can just rail on these things. Coming from a racing background these things felt a lot like a wide gs ski. I never felt squirrely on them at high speeds and never really encountered much tip chatter except on really cut up areas and one some ice.
Ice: Never really took them on super high speeds on the ice, but did get quite fast at some parts. Like on hardpack, they can hold an edge really damn well and dont chatter too much. I mean for a non-racing, non uber stiff ski you can only excpect it to chatter some as with almost all skis on the market these days so Id say they held their own as far as chatter goes.
Powder: With 84mm in the gut these werent the worst powder sticks. I tried them on about 15-20cm of fresh and they obviosuly didnt float me to the top, but they did have enough float to keep me high enough to really be able to charge with them. Did enounter a few moment of tip dive, but that happened in flatter terrain so it was probably just that.
Trees and Bumps: I love skiing the trees and the tighter the better. They werent too wide so they have a good edge to edge which is great when encountering tighter trees and bumps and yet they arent super narrow that if you were to enounter some soft stuff in the woods you could cruise through it. Not my favourite tree ski, but it did a good job
Overall I think this would be a great ski to compliment a powder ski for any quiver. Its a great midfat, on the stiffer side all mountain ski that can perform well in all terrain so when the conditions arent ideal and arent calling for the powder whores these are great to take all over. Also would be a good touring ski as it isnt too heavy and also would be a good springtime ski when it starts getting a little warmer.
I skied the 178 and found them just right. Go for the 185 if your planning on doing more powder and open alpine-like terrian, but I think they would be too long for some of the tighter tree terrain.
I have the Duo Freerando.
Unfortunately though, I have no snow!
But I can tell you that they seem to be beautifully made, and the skin tip & tail attachment system (which can be fitted onto any brand of skins) seems very secure.
Here's a review by someone who has both the Freerando and snow (nice combo!):
http://www.turns-all-year.com/skiing...23421#msg23421
Trab Freerando is $$$$.
FreeRando price seems in line with other touring-oriented skis:
http://bentgate.net/duofrskbyski.html
http://bentgate.net/aceskisbyg3.html
http://bentgate.net/snwoskbyvo.html
http://bentgate.net/bc82skbygo.html
http://bentgate.net/redap74skbym.html
http://www.life-link.com/dynafit_skis.htm
http://www.bdel.com/gear/ethic.php
Oh yes, that's a great idea. :cussing: Are you in town now? Stop by sometime and we'll force some beer on you.Quote:
Originally Posted by MT
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Interesting to hear the feedback on Trab skis. Thanks. My main touring skis will be the 188 bros (stiff flex), 8.7 lbs for the pair with a strap but without bindings. I have some dynafit comforts that will go on those, and that should be a very interesting setup. I also have this weird idea that I would get a kick out of a super light setup (at least comparatively super light, not rando race super light). For long tours and tours with more modest slopes, that could be fun. Anymore I get a kick out of diversifying what, where, and how I ski.
I will be in town for a while. Don't you already have some carbon surfs for a lightweight setup?
A stick of warm butter has more torsional rigidity than the carbon surfs. I just tend to push right through them. Seriously, waxless base Fischer Outtabounds have more substance. For a lighter skier or someone who is only using them for finesse pow harvesting, they would be a better fit. They tour nicely; I'll give them that. Anyway, mine are for sale (or I might give them to the bro-in-law in Cooke).
Sounds like they are pretty stiff. Maybe you could sell them to The Professor. Oh wait, I forgot, he's down at The Classic right now rolling another game :)
If we just get enough dang snow to have a sustainable base, I'd be too busy skiing (in-between billions of working hours) to worry about refining the quiver or experimenting with ultralight gear. Besides, if I were more he-manly about the whole thing I would just start touring with the LPs and beat my desk jockey lungs and legs into submission. What's that Greg Hill quote? "What the strong mind commands, the weak body must obey."
Top.... someone tell me about the Duo Sint Aeros, other than being a 4lb ski. :O
The Duo Sint Aero looks great in my basement ski room!
Unfortunately, the view out my basement windows is not so great right now . . . but supposedly an actual snowstorm is on the way (well, maybe with sleet, freezing rain, plain-old rain too), so I might actually finally mount them up and ski on them soon.
I just mounted a pair of Stelvio Freerides with Dynafits and had them out for 3 days in a combination of sidecountry and resort. First time on Dynafits so I didn't push the envelope much but I will say that the Stelvios have a great feel. They don't handle on icy groomers as well as my Atomics but I didn't buy them for skiing groomers. They are doing 2 weeklong tours in the Alps with me in March and April, Ullr willing.
Anyway, I'm going to do a multiday hut tour with them next weekend and will post a more detailed review afterwards. So far, I am impressed.
Saw a few of the stelvios around cham. Damn do they look nice, firm flex, but heavier than I thought they'd be.
Professionals who make a living touring on skis are choosing to buy both the FreeRando and the Stelvio FreeRide.
Bruce Tremper, liked 'em so much he paid $600 for 2 used demos (1 FreeRando and 1 Sint Aero) and than bought another FreeRando for his wife. He can get virtually any ski for free, but he paid for the best all around backcountry ski he's been on. He demonstrates the extended column test here, you can also see more of the FreeRando in action by checking out his photos on the UAFC site.
Lowell Skoog bought a pair off the rack at Marmot. He called the skin attachment system "the slickest system I've seen" and described the FreeRandos as "The skis are really light...The thing that impressed me most about the FreeRandos was how easily they turned."
Find his full review here
Lou Dawson also likes the FreeRandos. For truth in advertising, Wildsnow tested weight 1336g, Advertised weight 1350g!
The Stelvio, while new, is generating excitement in the guiding community. AMGA president John Bicknell of the Colorado Mountain School; Henry Beyer, the membership director of AMGA; and Phil Segal, of Tahoe Guide Service; have all purchased the Stelvio. Phil called and left a message describing the Stelvio as "An excellent ski. Excellent edge hold, nice light weight, great all around ski."
Drew Hardesty of the UT Av center, bought a pair of Stelvios earlier this season. He sent the following thank you email: "Mark - the skis are great. They skiied the powder like a dream. Floated and were quick. Thanks so much. Drew"
The most encouraging comments about the Stelvio FreeRide came from the owner of PineNeedle Mountaineering in Durango "It has a really wide sweet spot. everyone who has demoed the skis, from beginner to expert, has bought a pair"
And in Skiing's backcountry ski test (ironically a primarily alpine mag was the only periodical test to take the skis out for a tour in addition to a day on the lifts), the Stelvio rated "The lightest and ablest downhiller. The extra-fat tip is great for breaking trail and won't dive in powder"
Bottom line, if you're looking a for a high quality touring ski capable of handling all conditions, check out the skis that high level professionals are paying to get on.
please ........ :eek: :rolleyes2
... and, BTW, I wrote a review here after demoing the stelvios. But it's clear now that I was not able to appreciate them because I am not an high level professional
The thing I don't understand is they are supposed to ski great, CONSIDERING THE LIGHTWEIGHT. In the Couloir test, the ski right next to it, the Kongur (old 10ex) is lighter (according to them) and doesn't have any comments about how they are good for the weight, just that they are great all around.
I guess I don't understand the big deal with the Trabs if there are mass produced skis that ski better in funky conditions and are lighter.
I think they are a pound lighter than my TM:X (now Kongur) due to the difference in materials. The shapes are almost identical - I would take the Couloir stats with several grains of salt.Quote:
Originally Posted by nate s
I've had a few more days on my Stelvios and still like them quite a bit. I am a professional alcoholic and semi-professional malingerer but only an amateur skier.:biggrin:
They list the freeride at 6.6 lb for 171, anyone have actual weight for the 185? If they really are a lb lighter than the Kongur it would make sense but I think it has got to be less than that, if at all. Wildsnow.com lists the 177 Kongur at 1573g or ~6.9 lb. Seems that the larger size stelvio would be atleast that. It seems the 184 knogur and 185 stelvio would be a wash.
To me, it's a hard sell if the weight savings isn't there.
this is probably fairly accurateQuote:
Originally Posted by nate s
Freeride
6.6lb = 2996.4 gm/pair for 171cm
2996.4gm/pr / 2ski/pr = 1498.2gm for a 171
1498.2/171 = 8.76 gm/cm
Kongur
1573gm/ski / 177cm = 8.89gm/cm
extrapolating using those numbers
Freeride
185cm * 8.76 = 1620.86 gm/ski
Kongur
184 * 8.89gm/ski = 1635.21 gm/ski
sounds like its the difference of whether or not snow sticks to the skis topsheet.
I am not a drug dealer so don't have access to a sophisticated scale. On a $25 digital crapper scale, my 184 TM:Xs with Diamir 3s and brakes weigh 10.00 pounds. My 185 Stelvios with Dynafit Comforts and brakes weigh 7.75.
Since Comforts weigh about 35 ounces less than a pair of Titanal 3s, it seems that my weight savings is almost entirely in my bindings.
End of pseudo-scientific study! I love both skis but it appears you should buy the Stelvios for the way they ski, not for any great weight savings.
On an unrelated note, my wife doesn't even look surprised anymore when she sees me in the bathroom with 2 pairs of skis and a notebook!
The Stelvios aren't supposed to be that light. My 178 05/06 Freerandos, on the other hand, only weigh 6lbs2oz a pair, which is pretty good.
For light get the Trab FreeRandos. With the clear graphics showing the structural layers, they might not be as pimp as the Stelvios with the wood veneer, but saves weight & they perform. I have last year's Freerandos in 185cm & love 'em. 6lbs4oz a pair on the post office scale.
The view out my basement windows is now . . . white!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
And the Duo Sint Aero is mounted.
And I've even skied on them!
Unfortunately though, it was very brief - dawn (literally) patrol at Pico on Saturday, and I had time for only 1470' vert since I had to drive to NH to teach a ski patrol mtn travel/rescue class. (Plus I didn't want to totally exhaust myself the day before the L-L MRG/S'Bush rando race.)
Impressions thus far:
- Absurdly light for its dimensions.
- Skin system is very secure, and skin can be peeled off from either from the tip or the tail.
- Turn initiation is super quick and easy, more so than I would expect from the sidecut radius.
- Skis very well in a few inches of fresh powder on top of groomed and skis very well on freshly groomed (what is up with all that Pico grooming right after a storm?), but then again probably anything would, so sorry I don't have more details to report so far.
Finally got out on the Trab Duo FreeRando.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan S.
Setup details: length = 164cm, bindings = Dynafit Comfort, boots = Scarpa Matrix w/ Flexon tongues, me = 148 lbs.
Comparison ski = my old 162cm BD Mira.
Both days were on the same terrain - long flat approach (both there, and back again) for multiple laps (7 first day, 8 second day) on about 600 vert, around 25 degrees at the top, then flattening out.
Both days were untracked powder, though on the first day we were sometimes crossing over semi-covered tracks.
Overall, the skis performed flawlessly, though of course the conditions were quite nice. But the impressively low weight for the dimensions was a great plus on the long flat approach, the float seemed to be exactly what I needed for the conditions, and sidecut seemed just right. Thinking back to my Mira, I’ve sometimes felt that the Mira’s tail hooked up in a weird way - had no such problems w/ the FreeRando, although then again I’m not sure if these were the conditions I would have felt that.
The skin attachment system worked very well: super quick to get on-off, very secure, and offers the option of peeling back the skin from either the tip or the tail.
Pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/jshefftz/DuoFreeRandoDay1
http://picasaweb.google.com/jshefftz/DuoFreeRandoDay2
Two more outings to report on the Duo Sint Aero.
Setup details: length = 164cm, bindings = Dynafit Comfort, boots = Dynafit TLT Evo (3 buckles, basically an updated TLT 4S/Pro), me = 148 lbs.
Comparison ski = closest skis in the quiver would be 160cm Atomic TM:11 (mainly just for racing now) and 170cm Atomic R:9 (w/ Diamirs, mainly a lift-served setup now).
First add’l outing:
- Skinned up for two laps on a 600' slope that has pretty solid pitch all the way (for the east), measured at 25 degrees.
- Conditions were freshly groomed and skis were perfect. Turn initiation was very quick. Almost felt like my slalom race skis! Stable at higher speeds when I backed off the edge angle.
- Skin attachment system is great: goes on/off easily, super secure, and can be peeled back from either the tip or the tail.
- My presentations for the avy course weren’t until the afternoon, so the lead instructor let me and another assistant instructor go out for some lift-served runs.
- The slope I had skinned up before was now quite slick. Skis felt great. So great that I almost went over to the junior race coach to ask the coach if I could try a run in the slalom practice course! (Figured that would just be too weird though even to ask with the funny-looking skis, odd little bindings, and big ski patrol jacket...)
- Also skied several runs in a tight icy mogul field. Skis performed quite well here (not that I plan to make a habit of taking this setup for lift-served skiing in moguls...)
Second add’l outing:
- Skinned up a long route of snowshoe trails (first tight & rolling, then steep, then open & rolling), then skied a backcountry gladed, then skied some lift-served glades and open slopes.
- Glades were deep wind-packed powder; open slopes were perfectly groomed powder. Pitch was upper-intermediate at most.
- Skis did quite well given their 73mm and the conditions. (That is, my brother-in-law on tele gear a bit more narrow than my setup had gone on at length warning me how the deep snow was so dangerous and it was ideal conditions for tearing a knee, etc, and my snowboarder brother-in-law had told me how he got stuck in the powder, etc.)
- Obviously a wider ski would have been ideal, but they were still fun to ski on in the conditions, although I had to be careful with my technique.
- The skinning on such a super-light setup was obviously a joy! Basically it’s like having a rando race setup on the ascent but a much more versatile setup for the descent.