WWMD: Which New Powder Ski?

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11-16-2006, 10:59 PM
skinnyskier

WWMD: Which New Powder Ski?

I want a pair of reverse-camber powder skis bad. But which ones? The local shop has a few ARGs coming in, plus plenty of Pontoons. I've put down a deposit, so I get my choice. So, options: ARGs, Pontoons, use my deposit for something else and order Lotus something from DP?

No way can I demo the ARGs-I don't think the two pair headed for the shop will last all that long. I read all the applicable threads, including:
ARGs
Pontoons
DP 120s
The shop owner skied the Pontoons last winter so he's pushing them over the ARGs. Not so many people have skied multiple different Spat-ish shapes.

Specifics- I'm in Seattle and I tour locally, but ski lift-served mostly at Whistler. 5' 11" and 170#. I don't ski all that fast by maggot standards.
11-16-2006, 11:14 PM
GBB

I hear Praxis skis are SICK nasty.
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=praxis
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ghlight=praxis

There is a little bit of info on them I think.
11-16-2006, 11:17 PM
Z

DP 120s. Fo shooooo.
11-17-2006, 12:29 AM
peeforward

how much are they selling the ARG's for? just curious. best of luck. i'm weighing the same options...
11-17-2006, 12:32 AM
Tri-Ungulate

Dude. You know you want the Lotus. Too bad you don't tele or you'd know how they ski by now.
11-17-2006, 12:33 AM
arem86

I want a pair of ARGs so bad...I hear they are amazingly light for the size they are and the ski that you get. And the sidecut underfoot sounds like a nice feature for getting back to the lifts. I'd wait 'till they come in and check them side-by-side, hand flex them (for what it's worth) and decide from there.
11-17-2006, 12:37 AM
skinnyskier

Shop wouldn't go below list = $800 on the ARGs. Probably could get a deal on Pontoons but not ARGs. Good for you if you're getting hookups for a ski with an initial run of 40 pairs. I guess that puts ARGs within $100 of Lotus 120s via Marshall.
11-17-2006, 12:40 AM
wren

ARGs are supposedly more versitile than Pontoons. Great in the deep stuff (as are pontoons) and also great in the cut up stuff, similar to spats and 138s. Plus the huge tips slap together. I cancelled the order on my pontoons and am getting ARGs. Unfortunately I won't be able to give my own review for about another week or two.
11-17-2006, 01:07 AM
Tri-Ungulate

Waitaminnit - now that I think of it didn't you already ski on the Tablas in CH? I know you didn't like the Surreals especially with the problems you were having with those naxos, but I can't remember if the version 2 Tablas were there as well. That guy Bjorn was on them, but was there a pair mounted with AT bindings too?
11-17-2006, 01:17 AM
leroy jenkins

Don't forget the 4frnt EHP 193s, and the Salomon reverse camber somethings that are supposed to come out sometime, someday.

And why the DP 120s, as opposed to the 130s? It seems like if you're going that far, just go all the way.
11-17-2006, 01:27 AM
iggyskier

Between those three....

lotus, then ARG, then pontoon.

EHP would be sick, as would an igneous FFF :D
11-17-2006, 12:40 PM
skinnyskier

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tri-Ungulate

Waitaminnit - now that I think of it didn't you already ski on the Tablas in CH? I know you didn't like the Surreals especially with the problems you were having with those naxos, but I can't remember if the version 2 Tablas were there as well. That guy Bjorn was on them, but was there a pair mounted with AT bindings too?

I never rode the Tablas. After the factory-tuned Surreals tossed me off that cat track:mad: , I was sticking with my R:Exs.

As an early season purchase, the EHP 193s are not happening. Plus I shop-flexed the 190s and they are reasonably stiff. If the 193s are significantly stiffer, then they're stiffer than I need for powder skiing.

I think ARGs... The topsheet is cooler than the Pontoon, anyway.
11-17-2006, 12:46 PM
ubertele

ARG's fo Shizzle.
11-17-2006, 02:56 PM
Professor

Quote:

Originally Posted by skinnyskier

The topsheet is cooler than the Pontoon, anyway.

You can never go wrong picking skis based on graphics :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2: :nonono2:
11-18-2006, 01:44 AM
johnnyskied

Praxis skis are for REAL!!!!

I skied a pair of the praxis prototypes last season and I was highly impressed...so impressed that I purchased a pair this season!!!! They put the Spatula's to shame....if the spatula's were a car they'd be a doge Viper....fast, heavy and no handling....the Praxis would be a Carrera GT; super fast, stable, light, turn on a dime or you can point em straight down the mountain @ downhill speeds and be super stable!!!!! They are much easier to handle in non-powder and groomer situations than the spatula's as well!!! In my opinion you cannot purchase a better pow ski, I highly suggest looking into a pair....There is info on this site if you wanna pair....I do believe they are selling real quick too!!!!
11-25-2006, 07:50 PM
Jasonskis420

I agree Praxis is by far the best constructed and thought out design this year
11-25-2006, 08:03 PM
marshalolson

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasonskis420

I agree Praxis is by far the best constructed and thought out design this year

ha ha ha ha. nice blanket statement.

anyhow,

praxis: most bang for the buck
pontoon: ...meh...
EHP: prolly more ski than you need if you are not a super fast skier.
ARG: might as well just get praxis - its the same ski, better made, for less money.
lotus: you have read my reviews. they rock.
11-25-2006, 08:12 PM
XtrPickels

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

ha ha ha ha. nice blanket statement.

anyhow,

praxis: most bang for the buck
pontoon: ...meh...
EHP: prolly more ski than you need if you are not a super fast skier.
ARG: might as well just get praxis - its the same ski, better made, for less money.
lotus: you have read my reviews. they rock.

Marsh, was I wrong in thinking the praxis had no sidecut underfoot? Doesn't the ARG have a little somethin somethin to get you back to the lifts/traverse?
11-25-2006, 08:15 PM
robokill1981

$800 for ARG's or just a bit more for some DP's?

Shouldn't even be a contest. Get yourself some 120's or 138's.
11-25-2006, 08:29 PM
marshalolson

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtrPickels

Marsh, was I wrong in thinking the praxis had no sidecut underfoot? Doesn't the ARG have a little somethin somethin to get you back to the lifts/traverse?

i can't remember if the ARG is flat or not, but a little flat under foot with rocker will help traversing, but i really don't think that 1-2mm of sidecut is going to do shit traversing. the reason spats traversed out like shit was b/c the weighed 1000lbs.
11-25-2006, 08:39 PM
Jumper Bones

What's with the pontoon hate? Who here has skied it? What makes the ARG so much better, besides Tanner and all the Armada hype? I skied mine yesterday and had a fucking blast. No tip-slap problems, and they didn't delam.

And if you really, really look at it, the Pontoon and the ARG are pretty much the same thing - the 'toon is not a strict pintail shape, but rather has a moderate sidecut just like the ARG. Look at it - it tapers underfoot, and widens again to the bottom floatplane, and then tapers back to the tail. The big difference is that the ARG gets narrower towards the tip, and the Pontoon doesn't.
11-25-2006, 09:12 PM
dfinn

If I still lived somewhere that it snowed I would've bought the praxis by now. I'm a sucker for a good deal.
11-25-2006, 09:14 PM
robokill1981

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

the reason spats traversed out like shit was b/c the weighed 1000lbs.

Your use of the past tense is confusing to me.:D
11-25-2006, 11:07 PM
Jasonskis420

The reason the spat traversed like shit was because it was weighted poorly, now all these new skis have improved on the traversing by just equaling the weight out on the tips and tails, except the pontoon that has huge heavy tips and light tails.
11-25-2006, 11:19 PM
FigureEleven

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

No tip-slap problems, and they didn't delam.

Don't worry, just give it a few more days. ;)

I am sure they are super fun, but they just are not as pivotalicious as the true reverse/reverse shape skis. IMHO pontoons vs. (Spat, Praxis, Arg) are two different ways to look at pow skis.

Pontoons = skidalicious
Spatula & friends = pivotalicious with skidalicious on the side
11-26-2006, 12:50 AM
Jumper Bones

soooo...then what separates the ARG from the poon? The narrowing tip? The stiffer flex? Sidewall construction (is it not a cap?)?

Both have sidecut, making the poon easily skiable on traverses...K2 just chose to run the numbers to show a pintail shape, and that's not really accurate.
11-26-2006, 01:19 PM
Vitamin I

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

...what separates the ARG from the poon?...

I haven't skied either ski. After fondling both at Porters in Truckee, I gotta believe they'd perform and feel very different in a back-to-back ski test. The differences in tip width and camber/rocker profile have gotta be detectable while riding.

I didn't even bother to flex the Pontoon. With shape/rocker that screwy, stiffness ain't gonna tell me much---if I wanna know how they ski, I'm just gonna have to ski 'em to find out.

.
11-26-2006, 01:38 PM
Darkside

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumper Bones

soooo...then what separates the ARG from the poon? The narrowing tip? The stiffer flex? Sidewall construction (is it not a cap?)?

Both have sidecut, making the poon easily skiable on traverses...K2 just chose to run the numbers to show a pintail shape, and that's not really accurate.

The ARG's are a cap ski, but I think they'll be at least as durable as the pontoon. The ARG's are also substantially lighter than the pontoons with a stiffer, more even flex patern. You're right, they both have sidecut, but I would indeed call the pontoon a pintail, considering it's 160mm in the tip and 120mm in the tail, wouldn't that qualify? It's definetly the first word that comes to mind when i see a pair.
11-26-2006, 04:17 PM
Jumper Bones

All I know is it seems there's a whole lot of "this ski is better than that one", coming from people who haven't skied either of them.

My perspective is also skewed by never having skied spats. The poon toons are my first reverse-camber ski, and I'm a fan. I'd give the ARGs a try if I have the chance, just to see what the narrower tip/pivotalicious thing does.

btw I think that big floppy tip certainly has its uses. Also I wasn't banging tips together because I'm used to skiing with a wider stance anyway, and overall the snow was soft, even though I was skiing plenty of cutup no problem. But it certainly wasn't hardpack, and I can see where that could become not-fun.

As far as the pintail is concerned, yes overall it certainly is a pintail, however it isn't a strict one - like the Igneous 3T - but it does feature a fair amount of sidecut, just like the ARG. The only difference is that it doesn't narrow towards the tip.
11-26-2006, 04:22 PM
Jumper Bones

There's also one thing to influence your purchase - where is your money going?
450 bucks to a true independent (Praxis)? Holy shit, that's a good deal
850 bucks to the best in materials and soul (DPS)?
800 bucks minimum to something mass-produced in a corporate environment in China (K2)?
And isn't the ARG made in Morocco or Tunisia or Mexico or some shit? And it costs the same?
11-26-2006, 08:39 PM
Optimus_Prime

i think that the reverse camber AK Enemy would be sick
11-26-2006, 09:19 PM
FigureEleven

Off topic... but some clown just bought used Spatulas with 997's for $520 off of Ebay. Wow, what a rip!
11-26-2006, 09:58 PM
marshalolson

jumper- just to clarify, cause i know some of what you are taking about is in reference to me... i think the pontoons are fine skis for sure, i just think there are better options out there.

in my opinion, the reason the spatula/138/120/arg/praxis designs are so cool is the way they slice and dice and sit-up nicely in softslab/setup/recystalized snow. i see the reason for big fat skis like this is to make shitty snow feel like pow, NOT to float you in the super deep. this sensation to me, is because the shovel's shape: tapering inwards so that it can cut into the snow, while the wide undefoot keeps you up in it.

i'm stoked for you that you like yours.
11-26-2006, 10:27 PM
Jumper Bones

naw, wasn't referring to you...thought Iggy had said you'd skied the ARGs and 'toons...plus obviously Spats and Lotuses.

so far, I haven't had an issue with the superwide tip. In fact, kind of along the lines of what you're saying, I skied them at the little pillows in-between the cut, on purpose, to see what they'd do. Instead of knifing through and then burrowing into the piles, and then bogging down & flipping me over the handlebars, they instead cut through and rise to the top, and then motor right through. Now I guess the ultimate test I'll have to give them is a big wet dump, right near freezing point, that then gets to sit overnight and refreeze after having been cut up the day before. Until that happens, I really can't compare them to what you're talking about.

There are definite downsides - the protos Iggy and I saw were definitely sidewall skis, not cap; and a stiffer flex behind the tip and then through the ski might not have been a bad idea.

Also my stoke is at day 1. Maybe it's just me going "ZOMG TEH REVERSE CAMBER LOLZ!" I really do need to try some others out.
11-26-2006, 10:32 PM
TheDon

Quote:

Originally Posted by FigureEleven

Pontoons = skidalicious
Spatula & friends = pivotalicious with skidalicious on the side

That is going into my personal quote hall of fame! :fm: Funny!

Quote:

Originally Posted by FigureEleven

Off topic... but some clown just bought used Spatulas with 997's for $520 off of Ebay. Wow, what a rip!

I SAW THAT!!! Holy Sh-nikes I watch that thing go and go... Wow is all I can say, Wow!
11-27-2006, 10:12 AM
skinnyskier

1. I did buy the ARGs.

2. They say "Made in Austria" on them.

3. The shop is mounting them as we speak. We'll see how they do this weekend. Anyone in Seattle/Whistler with a 314mm sole and some other reverse-camber skis is welcome to trade for a run or two.
11-27-2006, 12:52 PM
dubu

So where can you exactly buy the ARGs, I cant seem to find them anywhere.
11-27-2006, 01:38 PM
skinnyskier

I bought my pair at Epic in Seattle. They had one pair left this weekend. The owner (Bryce) says Epic is one of the few (the only?) shops with permission to sell ARGs mail-order.

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