Over Under Shotgun?

After a week and a half hunting pheasant in SD I've decided I need all the help I can get hitting a damn bird. I did have some success so it wasn't a complete disaster, but I missed more birds that I got. I'm currently using my grandfather's A-5 Browning 12ga. semi-auto with a full choke barrel. It used to be his duck gun and is the featherlight version built in around 1968 according to my serial number search.

Shooting steel shot through a full choke makes for an extremely tight pattern so hitting a bird with a snap shot is tough. The only bright spot is I can effectively down a bird from quite a distance.

I want an O/U shotgun because I like the idea of two chokes with two shots and I like the feel of this style of gun. The price however is what has kept me away from them in the past. After this last trip I'm seriously considering spending the money on one. I'd like to keep the cost to around $1500. I know that limits my choices, but its a hunting gun not a wall ornament.

So what I'm looking for is impressions from others about the durability and quality of O/U guns in or around that price range. Also to further complicate things I'm a southpaw and don't want a gun with a cast off stock. Neutral cast is ok.

1. Shooting lessons > New shotgun
2. not an O/U but I'm extremely happy with my Huglu SxS and imagine their O/Us would be of similar build quality. I got mine used for 450 after swinging a lot of guns it handled in the store like the sxs's that were ~2500 instead of the 2x4 pos's in the same price range (o/u's as well) but clearly not in the same class as those I handled in the $10k range :)

Ruger Red Label is a solid gun for the money <$1K. 20 gage, 12 gage.

That said, fit on a gun is very important. I thought I had bought the gun that would last me forever; a Benelli Super 90. After a couple of disastorous seasons and some fitting adjustments, it became apparent that the gun didn't fit me. I was ready to sell it but it got stolen first.

You could probably get into a nice shooting Beretta at that price point as well.

Edit: If you are looking at used O\Us, check the release lever. Right of center=good. Dead-center=been shot but still good, price negotiating point.
Left of center=had more rounds through it than Tara Reid at an open bar.

Ak47, BITCH!

LB has a good point in getting some shooting lessons or get with someone who knows what they are doing to give you pointers. How you shoulder the gun, the fit, and all that factors in.

Also, inspect the sights on your shotgun too. When I was Dove hunting this fall I noticed my barrell sight had twisted. Could be a source of you accuracy problems.

A far as chokes go, I shoot modified or improved. I have a friend who does not fucking miss, and he finally fessed up that he was shooting a skeet choke. Kinda like cheating, but if it gets your shooting confidence back, do it.

If your itchin' to scratch for a new shotgun, check into a Benelli Super Black Eagle I or II. Its a semi auto and shoots 2-3/4, 3 inch, and 3-1/2 inch shells for a variety of birds. (When I hunt ducks, I load two 3 inch shells and 3-1/2 for a long shot).

I've had mine underwater, used it as a paddle, had the action jammed full of mud, and generally beat the shit out of mine. As long as you clean it, they will last forever. My hunting partner has had his 5 years and he runs about 2 flats of shells a year through his!!

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Originally Posted by lemon boy

1. Shooting lessons > New shotgun
2. not an O/U but I'm extremely happy with my Huglu SxS and imagine their O/Us would be of similar build quality. I got mine used for 450 after swinging a lot of guns it handled in the store like the sxs's that were ~2500 instead of the 2x4 pos's in the same price range (o/u's as well) but clearly not in the same class as those I handled in the $10k range :)

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I talked to a co-worker that's in a shooting league and he said the first thing to do is get a gun that fits. Then take lessons. Taking lessons with a poorly fitted gun would only reinforce bad habits (i.e. lifting head).

the Browning is not fit for me. The length of pull is too long and the drop is too much.

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Originally Posted by assgasorgrass

Ruger Red Label is a solid gun for the money <$1K. 20 gage, 12 gage.

That said, fit on a gun is very important. I thought I had bought the gun that would last me forever; a Benelli Super 90. After a couple of disastorous seasons and some fitting adjustments, it became apparent that the gun didn't fit me. I was ready to sell it but it got stolen first.

You could probably get into a nice shooting Beretta at that price point as well.

Edit: If you are looking at used O\Us, check the release lever. Right of center=good. Dead-center=been shot but still good, price negotiating point.
Left of center=had more rounds through it than Tara Reid at an open bar.

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Thanks for the tip. I noticed that when I was at the local sports shop looking at the guns, but didn't know that was an indication of use.

You should be able to find a used Browning or Beretta O/U for < $1500 in excellent condition, and you won't really find a better gun than that anywhere (though you may be able to find a comparable gun without the name for less).

I shoot a Beretta 686 that I bought used for around a grand, and I couldn't be happier with it. Certainly not a duck hunting gun, but, then again, I don't hunt ducks.

I think you'll find that you shoot almost anything better than the humpback A5 -- they look kinda cool, but the balance is for shit.

Well, I've shot a ton of pheasants with a Browning A-5 with a modified choke. I have 7 of them in the rack, 20's, 16's and 12's. Old favorite that I shoot very well.

Have a few O/U's, SKB 20 ga's and Franchi 12.

Fave is the Benelli. I have an M1 Super 90 Tactical, but for hunting would use a Super Black Eagle. Can't be beaten.

Remember that sometimes in chasing birds, you still need more than 2 shots.

Key is to get something you are comfortable with, that fits you well, and learn to use it.

Ken

I don't mean to hijack but thought these might be an option.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ns/SPR_models/

That SPR 210(SxS) & 310(O/U) look nice and are inexpensive. If you are looking for a gun that you can actually hunt with and not cry over if you drop it, fall down with it, get it wet or scratch it might be a good option. Certainly understand these might not have the classic lines and feel of a $3K + shotgun but does that mean they are shit?

There's a ton of very nice guns in your range. The most important thing, like golf clubs, ski boots, and fly rods, is fit! Find a local gun smith, in fact find a few. Go and visit them and get measured. In my neck of the woods, the best are at gun clubs. You'll get the same fitting as you would if you dropped $10K at Orvis, and get your gun for your price. I personally am a fan of the Citori, I bought mine used, (be careful with used guns, you really have to know what you're looking for, and trust the person selling it to you), I think I spent around $900. Then I worked with a fitter that adjusted the stock, watched me shoot, and the result is a perfect gun for me. I can't remember what it cost, but I believe you'd still be in your price range. And by getting fitted, you don't limit yourself to any one model, because everything is adjustable.

Good Luck with the Ditch Parrots!
Jay

Whoh!! Just saw you are in WI, where abouts, I might be able topoint you in a direction just across the border to the west! Or you could win the lottery and visit the new Orvis store in Madison. Your choice.

Jay

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Originally Posted by TNKen

Remember that sometimes in chasing birds, you still need more than 2 shots.
Ken

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This is true but my shotguns all have the plug inserted and only get three shots. The entire pheasant hunt I used all three shots 2-3 times so I'm not too concerned with only having two shots. To me being able to shoot well is more important than being able to pump out several shots and I seem to shoot better with an O/U style gun.

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Originally Posted by LT

I don't mean to hijack but thought these might be an option.

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...ns/SPR_models/

That SPR 210(SxS) & 310(O/U) look nice and are inexpensive. If you are looking for a gun that you can actually hunt with and not cry over if you drop it, fall down with it, get it wet or scratch it might be a good option. Certainly understand these might not have the classic lines and feel of a $3K + shotgun but does that mean they are shit?

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I have nothing against Remington shotguns. I don't like their semi-auto rifles, but I've hunted a few times with the 870 in college and had no issues. Those guns are moderately priced and will have to look at when I am ready to purchase. On long hunts through thickets for grouse or cattails for pheasant I prefer a lighter gun.

Right now I like the new Franchi Renaissance line. The weight of 6.2 lbs. is really appealing and the price is within my range for the field and classic. I've shot my dad's Franchi Alcione a few times and was able to hit several clay pigeons. Once I know my finances after my ski trips I'll have a better idea of what I can afford.

I have an 870 Express as my do everything shotgun. That said, the 870 is great for ducks where I don't have to worry about it getting a little beat up.

I have wanted a double gun for ever and just can't justify the large expenditure.
Want something lighter than the 870 for upland hunting, especially Chukar where you're working your ass off. Those Remingtons are "cheap" but you bring up a good point they really aren't as light as a double probably should be.

Might just have to continue to lust and throw down one of these days for a higher quality double.

go to your local gun shop and see how the used guns fit chances are you will find what you want.

Where were you in SD? My parents farm/ranch is about an hour east of Pierre, back there slaying them every year opening week. We had better than most luck this year attributed to my parents getting permission to mow some swaths in some CRP consolidating the birds, plus about 5000 acres of corn/flowers being out a half mile from all the CRP... The last was probably the key combined with my parents feeding and watering schedule for birds. We hit the same 100 acres of CRP twice and 5 dudes limited both times, three days later four guys went in there and left after an hour filled. Last year was mayhem, most shooting I've ever done on pheasants shot triples, doubles, etc...We'd spend an hour in the field and be done. This year the cold weather was a little different, better for the pooches by a long ways.

Anyway, gun stuff, my half brother is very into side by sides, Fox, Parker, on and on, we tease him about his little 2.5" inch shells. He does pretty good with them. I've tried them and am just so-so. Plus they're non inexpensive. I primarly shoot a 1100 modified 12, 5's on hot powder for lead, drop to a 4 for steel. I also shoot a Franchi 12 auto that is bitchin and fits my long arms pretty good, there is also a little 870 20 full that no matter what I always bang amazingly well. We have had three coveys of partridge on our place for years. I've never popped one when they flush. Popped one this year slick as shit with that damn 20. With my 1100 I never carry more than two in the pipe and one up, just balances and swings better for me. My little brother's main gun is a light auto 12 early 60's vintage-absolutely cherry. He shoots birds great with that puppy, can't bust clay for shit with it for some reason. I hunt with a guy that almost every year drops a triple with a 870 12 full. If we are in a heavy bird area, give him a box, tell him to block and call it a day. His Dad gave him that gun when he was 14, he has others that he's bought because his 870 is getting loose. But he can't hit shit with those others. I'm looking for a new goosey camo auto, shot the Benelli a little this year and it's ok, leaning toward the Beretta or the new Rem.
My rambling point and there is one, find a gun from a small shop that fits and shoot the piss out of it. Once you find one that fits, look around, go to guns amerca . com for some deals. Find some quality trap shells and buy as many boxes as you can afford-all the same. Find a trap range and go there at least once a month throughout the year on the weekends, all hours of the day all types of light all types of weather in a t-shirt up to heavy jackets. Make it so you can swing, squeeze and keep swinging no matter what. Stopping your swing is like stopping your arm when you throw a ball, it doesn't go where it's supposed to any better. Then shoot some sport clays before season to get timings and reaction down. When you hunt, buy quality shells in a good shot size and only shoot those whenever you go. I don't have good luck with 6's or 4's but 5's always work for me. When you go out on birds don't shoot when it flushes, pull up, relax, look down on it, breathe out and squeeze softly. Think there is a little egg you can't break in your finger and you won't pull your shot. Too many people go out opening day and shoot a box of shells blowing holes in that beautiful blue sodak sky. That's like rolling up on a pow day and thinking you're going to rip the shit out of it. Never happen. Don't give up on your Browning, if it's your grandfathers it's probably a Belgium and you'd be hard pressed to shoot that bitch loose. Those puppies were popular and have killed many birds. Shoot it a bunch this next year and place bets. I've hunted with the same fools most of my life we have our redneck triathalon: clays in the am, fields until four, road hunt until dark. SoDak road hunting is the shit, extra dollars go into the shoot from the pickup and have the dog retrieve without getting out. Legal? Not so much, but fun as hell. We added a new event this year, some cousins have some prairie dog towns that have spread bad. Pop goes the prairie weasel this year-I have a Sako 223, little bro 22-250, longest pop was 400 yards. hooowaaaa.

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Originally Posted by mnflyfish

Whoh!! Just saw you are in WI, where abouts, I might be able topoint you in a direction just across the border to the west! Or you could win the lottery and visit the new Orvis store in Madison. Your choice.

Jay

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I live in Eau Claire, WI so I'm close to the border.

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Originally Posted by flatlander#2

Where were you in SD?

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Yes, My sister and brother-in-law live in Sioux Falls (although they're trying to sell the house because she got a job back in WI) so we hunted around the Brooking's area until last Wednesday. Wednesday through Friday morning we were in the Aberdeen area with a stop near Webster. We saw number of birds up there, but with the cold and windy weather we didn't find them in the fields. They seemed to be concentrated in the cattails and private land. Since we only hunted public hunting areas we were forced to go into the cattails to find birds.

The week before this (2 weeks ago now) my father was in ND close to the southern border and his group limited out every day he was there. In SD however we had to work very hard to find the birds once the front went through last Monday, but we did have success.

As others have said - fit is more important than brand.

That being said, I have at one time or another had each in the safe: Ruger o/u, Browning Citori o/u, Benelli Montefelltro 20, Benelli SBE, Beretta Silver Pigeon III 20, Beretta 686........The only ones Ive kept are the Beretta SP III 20 and the Benelli SBE - one for waterfowl and one for everything else.

First determine - how much you are going to shoot said gun in a day - Why? Because you dont want a light 12 guage O/U if you are going to shoot 3" shells (or at least your shoulder wont). You might want a heavier gun to lessen the recoil or maybe a recoil op semi (a la Benelli) or gas op (a la most Beretta semis) - ive never owned a gas op, so cant speak to field maintenance - but the Benelli has treated be right and not much to go wrong with an O/U.

The Browning is the only one I wish I had back - it was nice, heavy and I could shoot it, but I wanted something "prettier" - so trading I went. The Ruger made a weird rattle when shot and the action was not as tight as the Citori or the Berettas. The finish was not as nice either - but still a good shooter. Ended up with the Beretta Silver Pigeon III 20 - fits well, 28" barrel (for swing weight) and it is mighty purtty and a silly tight action - which will take a while to shoot in plus it sounds great when you lock it up .....but I wish I had that Citori back.

The Monte is sweet - but a tad too light for me - makes you want to jab at birds and shoot.

The SBE will cycle almost any shell and is darn near bombproof - just got back from Saskatchewan duck/goose in muddy wet fields, never jammed and I never cleaned it 50-100 shells a day, dropped in the mud, stuffed in the magazine. But they do have a habit of having the recoil tube/spring in the stock rusting out (if you get them wet) although several companies make SS replacement parts. While the ability to take a 3.5 shell is nice, who really wants to shoot a half a box of those?? unless turkey hunting or if you run out of shells and your hunting buddy says that is all he has in his jacket.

Not much help - but maybe some things to consider - and a little different POV.

P.S. I rarely kill a bird on the 3 shot - If it didnt drop like a hammer on 2, it isnt going down on the 3rd in most cases esp. w/ steel and waterfowl.

P.S.S My advice is to go for quality after you find the gun that fits - If it really does fit - you will love it and why not have something nice - if you can. Second, if you grow tired of it - you will get your money back out.

I shoot w 12/20 beretta over and under. My favorite is benelli super black eagle. I dont use the berettas much the benelli is such a joy to shoot.

Here's a pretty cool little shotgun. Built on a Russian AK design. Gotta pay a $200 short barreled shotgun federal transfer tax. Check out the website http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm

http://www.tromix.com/images/8inchFAw.jpg

I didn't read the entire thread so if this has been covered, I apologize...

Regarding Steel Shot and Chokes.... If the full choke you are shooing your steel out of is a lead shot choke, stop shooting steel out of it immediately! Steel shot does not compress the way lead does (or any of the alternate heavy but soft shot)... the result is that you run a very real risk of blowing up your barrel due to overpressurization... If you really like your gun you might consider on of the alternate shots like Bismuth of HevyShot... both are spendy but well worth it - especially for duck / geese where the higher density = longer range...

If you are set on an over/under, look into the Browning Citori (sp?) - its a great gun that won't break the bank.

But as previously mentioned - if I was buying a new shotgun it would be a Benelli Super Black Eagle or SBE2... those guns are friggin indestructible! I've seen one go over the side, be retrieved from the lake, have the water / mud poured out of it and kill ducks 10 minutes later... a truely remarkable gun.

I don't think you're supposed to shoot hevi out of old style fulls either

If it's your grand father's gun then I doubt very much that it can take too many more days of steel shot.

I moved this season from a 100 year old side by side to an O/U which was frowned upon in a big way. However, I now have a gun that fits properly and it feels so much better - on Saturday I shot 1in3 with most of the beaters pushing off hills so the birds were fast and high.

I shoot with half choke on top, quarter on the bottom.

As others have said, get a lesson. The instructor can look at the gun fit, how you mount and that sort of thing.

Don't listen to these guys. Buy a gun, any gun, keep both eyes open and shoot it as much as you can.

Unless you think are a gentleman shooting the kings birds, a remington 870 express is the most versatile and reliable shotgun you can buy. (Some will argue for the binelli nova though.)

I bought my current shotgun (rem 1187) and couldn't hit a thing with it. I used every excuse in the book, patterns poorly, too heavy, doesn't fit me right, but about 1000 shells later, I don't miss very much. Shooting a shotgun is an instinct thing. If you want to take lessons, one will do for the basics. The rest is just getting out and handthrowing trap. Your body will program itself to break clays/kill birds no matter what the fit of the gun is.

As far as o/u's I have heard good things about the ruger red label, and would go with a 26" barrel for upland birds, or a 28" for upland and ducks.

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Originally Posted by Grange

I live in Eau Claire, WI so I'm close to the border.
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Eau Claire huh, not a problem. Did a short recon trip today to Gander Mtn in Minnetonka. Had a VERY nice Phesants Forever model O/U for under $1000, can't remember which mfg, but I remember it was made in Italy. Sorry I had my 4 year old, and just as I was looking over the gun, she took off wanting to play with the "big bear". It was certified and guaranteed so it could be brought back if there was a problem. I believe it listed at $800. Then, take that gun and go south out of Burnsville to the Minneapolis Gun Club and get fitted. Call them first to make sure they still do fittings. If not, Bills Gun Shop. You might not get it back for this hunting season, but next fall you'll be set up.

On another note, expecting a fine deer season just west of you next weekend, don't hit any of those forest carp before I get there. I have seen some great phesant numbers just west of you. I was over working on my stand and I thought I was in SD. The field just exploded in front of me, easily 50+ birds! Heck with that trip across 90, stay home and blast 'em.

Good Luck,
Jay

Yeah I went out just west of town on the second weekend and got one bird. If I get a chance I'd like to try one spot I know towards New Richmond. I may check it out on Friday if I can get out into the field for work.

I'm planning on using my current guns for the rest of the season and will look to purchase a new shotgun this spring once I figure out how much money I spent skiing this season.

While grouse hunting a few weeks back I saw a large buck. Definitely got my itch to grab the bow. As far as gun deer season I haven't had fun in several years. It's way too crowded where I hunt so I may not even go this season. Besides I'd rather be bird hunting with my dog.

Oh, I'm with youabout a walk with the dog. Went out a few weeks ago, and the old girl's rear end is having some trouble. Ended up making me a little sad, but she still has all the drive in the world. Thinking about a game farm trip after deer season to let her enjoy some success on "stupid" birds. She's all gray, smells a little, but I prefer her company to most people.

Our deer camp is anything but crowded, in fact we could use more of those special hunters driving around in their pick-ups to push some deer around. We have 6 guys for 700+acres, and it's not my land so I can only bitch so much, but it would be nice to have a couple more guys, especially the ones that get hungry about 10:30 and move around a lot. Last year some Stout students were "protesting" and flushed a group right towards me. It was awesome.

As for birds, look around Downsville, just out of Menominee. Pretty good population.

Jay

Browning Citori 20 guage
adjustable choke (etc.)
Gold trigger series.