Alpine Binders + Trekkers vs. Freerides?

I guess I'm just looking for validation here. I've done some searching and read just about as much as I can stand about the two different approaches. Seems to me both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I'm thinking Trekkers are probably the way to go for now. I just bought a pair of 183 Gotamas and need bindings for them. I'll be mainly using them in lift accessed side-country like at Crystal and Alpental, maybe a few times at Baker where the bootpacking is generally not very long distance and the opportunities for skinning are minimal. I won't be able to afford AT boots this year as I really need a new pair of Alpine boots and given budget constraints can probably pick up a pair of decent Alpine binders and trekkers for cheaper than freerides. That said, I do want to have the ability to do some skinning and get further out into the backcountry this year. Maybe some shorter tours in the spring off highway 20 or around Chinook Pass. Scouted some nice lines near Snoqualmie Pass last winter, too. Next year I'll be able to afford a complete AT rig consisting of light skis, Dynafits, and AT boots.

So, given that information, and if you were in my shoes, would you do the same thing, or would you go with freerides? If you'd choose freerides, why?

Freerides - That was my choice in a similar situation. And I'm very glad of it. I now live where most people only own AT binders but still ski lift served most of the time. But then again my home hill is a strange place.

You are in the PACNW. You have soft deep snow not hardpack and ice of the EC. The freerides will not make your lift served skiing any harder or less enjoyable. If you skin anywhere on trekkers you will regret not having a real AT binder (yes I spent 2 seasos living with securifix).

Gotamas are a relativly soft ski so you wouldn't get any increased grip or quicker edge reaction in using Alpine bindings.

If you do deceide you've made the wrong choice Freerides have a much better resale value thn Alpines

just my 2 centimes

FREERIDES hands DOWN!!!! was in the same position as you and went the Look/Trekker route first. i HATED the Trekkers. the screws kept coming loose, even though i used locktite. they popped out every now and then, i couldn't step completely down on the trekkers in the bindings because they would hit the rear binding and sometimes i would pop out when i leaned back to rest, adjust, etc.

In the end, i was on the trekkers for about 10 days, 7 of which i just toured around the flats getting used to them touring a state park, and the rear cam cracked on BOTH bindings!!!! one blew out totally 5 miles in the middle of nowhere on the backside of a mnt. so i had to post hole up and ski down the other side to the rig. Pissed me off!!! When i looked at the other trekker's cam, it was cracked too!!!

Freerides are the best all around compromise between alpine and touring. Solid binding with a higher din than a lot of ski's and if you REALLY want an even higher din on the toe, you can crank down the top tension screw (NOT recomended, but have known some that did this-the guys who ski 18-20 din in the BC).

Chainsaw, all depending on what size boot you have, i might have a set of freerides i would sell you-very few days on them

Highway Star is a big fan of Trekkers. That should tell you something.

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Originally Posted by Arnold Pants

Highway Star is a big fan of Trekkers. That should tell you something.

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Yeah...but he uses the race stock Trekkers.

I'm going to go against the norm a bit here.

It sounds like these skis are going to be your primary ride, and that, for the most part, you'll be using them inbounds or close (>30 minutes) inbounds. I'd choose alpine bindings in this case; they're more durable, don't have an excessing stack height, and cheaper. I know the Freerides are DIN compliant for release and retension, but something about them just doesn't seem right in situations other than soft snow.

Trekkers suck, are too flexible and fragile, and are a very heavy touring setup, but they're better than postholing. You're also getting a dedicated BC rig next season; when you get it, you'll want a conventional set of skis to compliment your touring rig.

Go with the freerides if you're touring more than 30-40% of the time; otherwise, go with conventional bindings.

Thanks for the input guys. To clarify a little - I already have a set of 186 Mojo 90s that are my "all around" ski and that I really like for anything but deep, soft snow. The Goats will be used on deeper days when heading to the Crystal & Alpental backcountry where you don't do any skinning at all to get to most of the goods, bootpacking is de-rigeur. I haven't skied Baker's BC yet, but most of it that I saw when I was there looked like a bootpack situation also. This is why I was thinking trekkers, since most of the time I'll just be carrying the skis on my back but I still wanted the ability to do some short tours this year when the opportunity presents itself.

However, it sounds like you guys are backing up what I read about trekkers when searching through here, that they're just not durable enough to be trusted. THAT is a major problem that would swing my choice towards freerides. I hate spending money on shit that breaks in short order.

So, given that the only time I would really need AT bindings for these skis would be if I do a short tour or three this winter or spring, and that the rest of the time I'll end up carrying them when not riding downhill, does that change anyone's advice?

Or maybe, if I end up with freerides I'll do more touring just because I can...???

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Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie

Or maybe, if I end up with freerides I'll do more touring just because I can...???

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Ding ding ding.

In theory, Trekkers are perfect for your situation. But the plain fact is, they are miserable bastards, and you very well might hate touring after a few hours on them, and never do it again. I used Trekkers once and bought Freerides a week later. Loved touring, hated Trekkers.

Something else to think about... are you going to drop $100 on skins for these skis only to use them a few times this season? Maybe you should just get alpine bindings and bootpack this winter, tour next year when you can get the gear.

Or, just make this your deep day/AT setup, and buy proper AT boots next year with that cash. But spending a lot of cash on AT gear this year that you are just going to replace next year, dunno about that.

Put freerides or Naxos on them you'll be fine - this whole AT/Alpine thing is blown out of proportion every time it's raised.

Or if you're not actually going to tour more than a few times then rent an AT set up from Pro Ski in North Bend and try out a few different set ups before buying something in the spring?

I was in the same boat as you chainsaw and was almost ready to pull the strings on some trekkers, but the overwhelming majority that said they sucked balls drove me to get a pair of nx21's for me and prinzzess's for the wife. I'm going to mount them up on some 188soft bro's for this winter for some lift accessed b/c with a day tour or two thrown in.

Like you I will not be using them as my primary ski, just when I want to get away from everyone else.


I also agree with arnold pants in that don't "rent" equipment. Do it right the first time and you'll enjoy everything much more. Don't buy something with the intention of getting rid of it because you want something better. You will never enjoy it that way.

You'll eventually get AT boots, at which point the Trekkers (if they, against all the odds, haven't cratered by then) will become superfluous and you'll want/need AT binders. Save some bucks and skip the Trekker stage.

I ski maybe 10 times a season, board the rest and I have Freerides on my Scratch BCs as my one ski quiver. 180lbs, 5' 10", 32. Never have had problems and have seen a few suffer on Trekkers to the point they are yelling at them in frustration.

I say do it right the first time.

try sidehilling on trekkers. it sucks. bad.

now try doing the same thing on firm snow. You will want to take your skis off and chuck'em it sucks so bad.

just get freerides.

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Originally Posted by Chainsaw_Willie

at Baker where the bootpacking is generally not very long distance and the opportunities for skinning are minimal.

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uuuuhh ;)

The only guy I've seen with trekkers had them breaking and falling out of his bindings, and he couldn't skin the steepish icy bit we came to. Get some decent gear and you'll be able to do a ton of stuff up there.

So yes I agree in some part… there is no better argument for a dedicated touring rig than a season spent touring on trekkers, especially when you're trying to hold an edge following a switchback up a steep slope :eek:

-but at the same time… I've had my trekkers for 2+ seasons and have put in a good 50+ days on them. They've handled short jaunts into the Crystal, Stevens, Alpental backcountry, day+ trips up the local volcanoes as well as a season in Argentina. I put them through their paces, but then again, I only weight 150 on a good day. They are nowhere near as good as Freerides or Naxos, but the moment I pop them out of the 912ti's on my k2 Maid'Ns, I've gone from a deep snow day touring rig to a spring day park sessioning machine with a dedicated alpine bindings (no stack height) capable of stomping silly spins on sketchy snow. For me, I like the flexibility over the uphill performance. I know you have an everyday ski, but fat skis like all mountain too.

Someone has to chime in for the Daywreckers. I will be the tard that chimes in favor of the wreckers. I really don't know if AT binders are better. Anywhere from 60-80 days touring a season on them for the last 6 years and have only had one pair blow up in the BC, but it was -30 and anything plastic was breaking and I still had functional binders for the dh. I think the wreckers get a bad wrap for their suckiness. Now you may proceed to tell me I'm a full of shit moron. In which case you may be right!

Well, I'm gonna come in on the side of the trekkers, although they sucks ass for sidehilling, I've never had mine blow up and they are much better than boot packing. That said, I have some Naxos coming, nonetheless, I'll still be using my trekkers with my squads and maybe KWs (if I get skins for em) when I'm ripping sidecountry that's close by.
Just my .02

FKNA, trekkers. I'm a total one eyed convert. After a few seasons of struggling on fritchis I went back to trekkers. Waaay better, downhill there's no comparison. If you ski HARD then touring bindings are just dangerous. Adjust them right and loctite the screws and side hilling's not that bad. Unless it's a sheet of ice, and then WTF are you doing out there. Go party instead ;) I've done some pretty technical ascents on trekkers and put in a good 80-150 days a season on them. They are heavier sure, but not as much as you think. The climbing bales on freerides are more user friendly, but I've stopped using my bales as much, and physiologically it opens up your stride and makes you more efficient (contreversial I know, but try it some time). The amount of times my fritchis broke and eventually became unusable through several pairs was ridiculous. One pair lasted about 30 days, and guess what, you won't get warranty on them. When you're a long long way from anywhere it's easy to jury rig a broken trekker, but not so easy for the touring bindings. And if your touring binding breaks you have no more downhill binding either. FYI, I've broken a few pairs of fritchis, but never had the trekkers break.

[steps off one eyed soapbox]

Go FR's or Nx21's. The bullshit about not being able to ski them HARD is just that... bullshit. The only touring bindings which really made me fear for my life were the old Silvretta 404's. Willie, if you have any doubts about that look me up at Alpental. I've been on the same pair of FR's 3yrs ~180 days in bounds/OB and do not ski them lightly in any conditions, they've never let me down. Obviously others have mentioned problems here, but for my wieght/size and DIN the FR's have been rock solid. I had trekkers for a few yrs and they worked fine, just makes a heavy set up for skinning. If the gots are skis you are interested in taking in the park then don't get the AT binders, but since you listed Xtal, Alpy, and Baker as the areas it pretty much tells me park is a low priority. But skinning isn't really necessary to access most of the side country at any of those areas either, unless it's Far-Side country.

If you had been paying attention to gear swap you could have picked up either the naxos or FR+'s NEW for about $250. You'd have a hard time getting decent clamps and trekkers for less than that price. Also, having the FR's or Nx21's is an easier transition to touring than going from trekkers to dynafits, IMO.

I think it depends on how hard you are going to be charging on the Goats. I do agree with Mofro that Freerides can handle alot, but if you huck alot (which Goats and Pow days are perfect for), I would rather be on a Salomon.

I was trekkers back from like 97-2000, and they can suck. Straight up is fine, but any techy sidehills, and they are, well.....DayWreckers.

Now I ski Freerides in the BC (and huck etc), but for resort charging, even sidecountry I would want real bindings. Disclaimer on this: I really like jumping, and am 6'4" 210.

Trekkers suck. Freerides are the only way to go.

Thanks for the input everyone. Lots of good points on both sides.

For the minute I'm now thinking the freerides would be the way to go. If I find a pair of alpine boots with a walk mode (Dale boots?) I'll have some limited touring capability, and if I score a deal on some AT boots late in the season or early in the spring maybe I'll be able to do a couple of real tours that I've been wanting to do (Aasgard pass anyone?).

I'm just a little scared of the performance difference between the freerides and something like an S912ti which I could get for ridiculously cheap, especially on hard spring snow. Having never skied anything but regular alpine bindings or demo bindings, I'm not sure just how the lack of torsional rigidity or the added stack height would affect my skiing. Would it be like when the toe wing on one of my current 912s came loose and I couldn't figure out why one ski felt like it was slopping around and didn't want to go where I was pointing it?

As for the skins, maybe this is a question for a different thread but if the Goats are longer and wider than the AT skis I end up with next season, couldn't I just cut the skins down to fit the smaller skis? I'm thinking something like a 179 soft Bro or similar length Sugar Daddies.

There are a lot of Salomon Ellipse type boots; they have soft flex and walk modes. Cost ~ 200

http://www.wildsnow.com/articles/nax...rque-test.html

I wouldn't get too hung up on walk modes with your alpine boots. If you're only skinning for an hour or two, just undo all the buckles on your boots and you'll be reasonably OK. The forward lean on alpine boots isn't ideal but you get used to it after a while

Ya know, I read that torque test over on wildsnow.com and all it really tells you is how the different AT bindings compare to each other. Without knowing how the referenced Marker binding stacks up to other alpine bindings, the point of comparison is basically worthless. Are those Marker bindings good, rigid bindings or are they soft, floppy pieces o' crap, or something in between?

I'm also curious how the stack height affects things. Everyone says extra height off the ski is bad, but so far I haven't heard why that is. Having no experience with this, I can't visualize why a little extra height off the ski is a bad thing...???

The most important consideration when choosing my new boots will be fit, with performance characteristics coming in a very close second. If I can find a lightweight boot with a walk mode that is at least as good as the Nordica K7.1s I have now, then great, but if I have to sacrifice a walk mode for the right fit and performance, I won't think twice. I don't want to buy a really soft, flexy alpine boot. Might as well just buy AT boots then.

As for the bindings, I was all set to pull the trigger on some freerides but life has a way of making other plans. I took my dog to the vet today and the verdict is he needs about $600 worth of surgery on his right front paw to remove a growth. So, instead of some freerides in the $300 range it's going to be the S912tis for $50 and maybe some trekkers in the spring or a remount with freerides if the finances recover by then.

Thanks again everyone. While circumstances are forcing my hand on this choice now, I hope someone else at least finds the info in this thread useful.