With all the new huge skis what are guys doing for skins? Anyone ever experiment with piecing together narrow skins to make up width or something similar? I remember my first trip up on skinny skins. Switch tele on AT gear... not good!
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With all the new huge skis what are guys doing for skins? Anyone ever experiment with piecing together narrow skins to make up width or something similar? I remember my first trip up on skinny skins. Switch tele on AT gear... not good!
Well, I'm gunna be on 192 Bros this year. I'm just gunna make do with 130mm skins. I think they'll be fine, albeit pricey.
There's just not that much weight on the tips and tails of your skis when you're skinning.
So, there's no need to make sure every centimeter of your ski is covered with skin, especially if you've already got 100+mm of skin underfoot.
Is this true if you are skinning across a fairly firm surface? I'm a skin jong, but it seems to me you'd want skin right up to the metal edge, or at least not much p-tex between the skin and the edge. ??:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk
The firmer the surface, the less the skins help anyway. E.g. if it's getting icy, I find myself progressing towards diagonally sidestepping using the edges to hold me because the skins have no grip any more. That's about the stage when my ass puckers up and I should be reaching for crampons.
I think at the end of the day there won't be many people dumb enough to skin on super-fat skis. I'm kinda dreading my new super-light setup for the winter - 192 Bros with 916s and Trekkers. It's kinda stupid really. Last winter my brother was skinning with Supercharger Blowers, and pretty often he had trouble following established skin tracks because the skis were just too wide (110mm waist). One day we were putting in a track and a couple of old guys on old school skinnies caught up to us at the top who said both their skis fit in the track left by one of his skis :D.
Yes, its not worth the time. For me, after a lap or two, the skinny strips of skin would not want to stick (with fresh glue) and eventually the entire skin would fail. Spend the $$ for real skins that can go wall to wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by lexpowers
If you can't find edge to edge skins that are big enough for your skis it's possible to stitch 2 skins together, although I haven't done it. You'll need an industrial sewing machine, so it might be easier to take them to a professional. Most tailors or sewers will be able to do it. You'll need to clean the skins of glue first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kya
Basically you'll want the seam running down the centre of the ski as it will be raised slightly. The process is the same as for sewing velvet or an (animal) skin.
1) You stitch the two skins together down the length - facing sides together. That is, the pile sides against each other. I'd use a 1.5 -2cm seam allowance (so stitch in 1.5-2cm from the edge).
2) Then you shave the pile off the seam allowance to remove bulk.
3) Next use an iron on low heat and press the seam allowance open (this means folding each seam allowance back against the side it comes from and iroming it so it stays there-ish). If the iron's to hot you run the risk of melting the pile or the backing fabric.
4) Get some leather glue and glue the seam allowances down, so they lie totally flat against each side of the seam.
5) Top stitch the seams down as-well. Just to make sure it ain't going no-where. And now re-glue.
You'll have to rig a way of attaching it to the tip and tail but that shouldn't be to hard.
*The area around the seam will be raised a bit and will probably wear a bit depending on the surfaces you're skinning on.
* The area along the seam mightn't stick as-well as it could but everything around it should stick as-well as normal so it shouldn't matter so much.
* Be careful the skins aren't stretched as they're sewn or they'll end up looking better suited to a canoe.
* As I say I haven't done this but I have given it a fair bit of thought - I used to be a designer before skiing stole my life. If anybody tries this or has done anything similar - please tell.
You could also use this central seam technique for shaping skins to fit skis with reverse cambered bases - probably...
Wall-to-wall is nice for the center/underfoot area of your skis. Not so much for the tips and tails. Thus if yer skis are 130mm at the tips, but only 100 at the waist, you don't really need a 130mm skin. 100 or 110 could be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure
That said, I spent three days skinning last winter on borrowed gear. 88mm waist skis and 70mm skins does suck the big one.
I've seen quite a few guides in europe doing this. They're not usually on very big skis anyway but they tend to use skins that are 25% thinner than their skis. I spoke to a couple of them about it and they say its faster on the climb and they tend to last longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by phUnk
I haven't tried this yet...
I kinda like the stiching idea... I haven't set many skin tracks but I remember that the ones around my area often switchbacked in a way that was between good edgeing and good flat. Good call on using narrower skis but if I'm working for it, it better be epic and I better get a huge payoff (I'm not just too cheap to buy a lift ticket). I've got 130 skins trimmed to Scratch BC's that worked phenominal which intend to use on the new fatty bros when they come out. This will give me about 8-10 mm of unskinned base per edge (they were already trimmed for edge exposure) and prob won't be an issue. We'll see though. I do have some narrow skins that'd work primo as a sewn filler skin.
With 140mm skins you can prolly just go straight up the mountain anyway. No switchbacks, no traversing, just straight up next to the bootpack.
people 'round here seem to constantly recommend sizing skins for the tip. while that's OK, it does waste money and it also adds to the resistance you have to overcome when going uphill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinecure
you really want to match the skin width to the waist (minus a few cm so you can edge on sidehills), and then having it fairly straight to the tip is OK.
fat skis have a huge amount of surface area and, therefore, going wall-to-wall from tip to tail is less an issue. you'll get tons of grip on the way up, and you'll be using your edge for sidehilling, regardless.
as said above, you have relatively little weight on the tip & tail, so having the full width of the skin there is wasted.
wall-to-wall skins add weight and are just a little harder to peel off, too.
with a slightly lighter ski (not hard to do when switching from rossis), you could be on lap #2. with the huge, heavy skis you'll be working extra hard on the way up (slower, not get as far) and the descent will be over faster. just something to consider.Quote:
Originally Posted by lexpowers
@$10 per extra 10mm skin width, you probably paid at least $20 extra for that pair of skins relative to what the scratch BCs really need.
an extra cm of space under foot is at the edge of the acceptable range of what you want. you probably want 2-3mm on each side.Quote:
Originally Posted by lexpowers
if you're gonna get one thing right on the skins, make it the width under the waist.
If it's "epic" in AK won't it be fresh powder and a fresh skin track? Wall to wall skins pay off on day old icy skin tracks - fresh soft snow not so much. If you ask, I'm sure BD will eventually make them for you, and charge you.
All that trailbreaking sounds refreshing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toby
Are your skis 140 mm wide at the tip? If so, 130 mm skins will do just fine for you. It will nearly go to the metal edge at the tip if you get 130 mm.
Especially if you ignore all the other posts in this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnbikerskierchick
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
wall to wall on a pow day may help but i'd still opt for some edge showing on an icy day. it all depends on the type of skin tracks you'll see in your area. around here they're pretty steep and often require a little side hilling.
"wall-to-wall" still means leave some space at the edges (2-3mm).Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaPowderDaze
cover the base material with the skin under the waist. don't fret about base showing near the tip and tail. if your ski is fairly straight, you can size the skin for ~10mm> the waist and be fine. (remember, even if you size for the waist, you'll probably trim a bit.)
all the rest is just throwing money away.
i've followed steep, icy skintracks and broken trail in pow, and this still applies.
i just don't get why so many folks (not APD) keep recommending the fattest skins? you're throwing away so much material and wasting cash. blind leading the blind?
.Quote:
Originally Posted by lexpowers
Yes, if you are up early / know where to go. lexpowers will be following my tracks (actually don't know lex, so maybe i will follow eh?) anyway lexman ease off on the mohair, that much is just plain not necessary. i mean shit my splitboard has 130mm skins on it and I'm pretty sure it beats the surface area of some scratchs. My fat teles (old Jaks) work great with 110s and I haven't had a problem setting tracks with them - and I'm pretty comfortable saying that I have set a reasonable number of skin tracks.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f
listen to uan, and if you are having that much trouble getting up a skin track, then step out of the damn thing and make a new track. problem solved.
Good point. I've only used skinny skins on wide skis and it sucked. That's why I was thinking of covering more surface area. But I can see what you're saying. After all, skins only works with your weight on them. So what you really need is good coverage around and under your foot (less 2-3mm for your edge to be exposed and effective) and representative coverage further forward and aft.Quote:
Originally Posted by upallnight
However, I'm still looking to stitch up some skins in the future because I need to do something useful with old 60-75mm wide skins, but I think I'll do it with an eye for efficiency rather than carpeting.
My rule of thumb for buying skins has been the width of the tail - 5mm and then the nearest size...
In the past I had straigth skins fitted to work with my old Super Stinx, and I can honestly say that skinning Scandinavian maritime snow sucked... those skis had too much sidecut and while switchbacking only the skinless tail & tip touched the snow and resulted in a lot of frustration. Hasn't been a problem when I got bigger skis with wall to wall skins.
As for sewing two old skins together... Well I did that and used 'em a handful of times... They worked, but major problem was that I sewed off-set pairs, ie. one old Colltex and some other old skin together. The skins seemed to have different strech properties when getting wet and curved the skins... Should have just sewed the matching pairs together. Didn't use any special sewing machine, took off the glue and then sewed a 25mm fabric "string" into the seam... Afterwards I bar-tacked the shit out of that area.
here's a similar thread you might get something out of.
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showt...ght=skins+bros
Would you recommend matching stitched together skins as an effective option?Quote:
Originally Posted by hemas
I read option as opinion and was imagining you cloaked in the flayed and tanned skins of Ann Coulter, Rush Limbaugh, Ariana Huffington and Al Franken like Buffalo Bill from Silence of the Lambs. Their horrible tortured ends gave me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr
Rarely used workable option. So if planning on getting a lot of mileage, I'd just shell out the ~140 bucks and get real skins. For the odd tour, sewed matching skins work...Quote:
Originally Posted by jerr
You're a sick puppy and you know of too many people whose first name begins with 'A'.Quote:
Originally Posted by cj001f