political science?

worthless?

pretty much at the point of my college career where i can't turn back if i continue down this road any longer.

every other day I think about how I feel as if i am not really learning a discipline, but just a random assortment of fact that really won't apply in the scary real world. I kind of miss the concrete answers of solving of mathy problems, and am considering taking a bunch of science courses next term to see if i can succeed at the college level, and hopefully actaully have something useful to bring to a job out of college.

whats the mag consensus on this joke of a science? am i too retarded too late?

what's your evaluation of these popular thoughts...

"it doesn't matter what you major in in college anymore" (like i'm going to med. school without a bio degree?)

the brain drain...does it really exist?...if i scrape by with a science degree would this be better than an honors polisci?

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Originally Posted by lax

what's your evaluation of these popular thoughts...

"it doesn't matter what you major in in college anymore" (like i'm going to med. school without a bio degree?)

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That's actually endorsed by the medical schools and by the pre-med department at my college. What's important is that you do extremely well in whatever you major in, they don't care what it is, as long as it isn't basket weaving or something like that.

GPA, MCAT, and real-world experience working with doctors matters FAR more than your major. My school has a med school admit rate of 65%, while the national average is 38%, so I think they know their shit.

The honors program I'm in allows me free rein to design my own curriculum, with some advising. I pretty much have no requirements whatsoever, beyond an hour total. I'll probably supplement the ~30 hours' worth of pre-med requisites with a mixture of economics and history, which I find interesting and am good at.

I don't know much about poli sci, other than that I hated AP government, so I can't help you there. I hope this does answer your latter question though.

Good luck.

The only political science majors I've kept in touch with after graduation are either living with their parents, selling drugs, or pursuing a PhD.

I took it as a minor because I enjoyed the subject matter. A number of my classmates began working for politicians or campaigns and yea a handful still live at home. I think its a great major if your planning on grad school or if you finish towards the top of your class. Otherwise I think you will just get lumped in with the other social sciences.

I knew two political science majors in college. One went on to get an MBA, the other went to law school.

The one who went to law school commented often that if he had it to do again, he would choose a more rigorous major for his undergrad work. He specifically mentioned engineering and said that the political science classes had not prepared him for the critical thinking that was needed in law school. Apparently, the guys in his class who had engineering degrees were just eating his lunch when it came to reasoning through a problem and articulating the solution.

My little brother went to law school with his PSCI degree.

I was a poly sci/sociology major...and I enjoyed the courses (especially sociology). I also have a degree in Chemistry though that fed my need for a more "mathy" and concrete type of learning.

You should be studying something you really enjoy. As far as does it apply to anything in the real world...most majors don't do that anyway. Even with the chemistry, which taught me all the basics and was very specific unlike liberal arts, I really had to adjust the way I thought and did things when I worked in a 'real' laboratory.

Unless you're going to be a doctor or a dentist (:D ) I don't think what you study specifically matters all that much.

So anyway, I ended up a webmaster and had absolutely no training in this field. I also never had a problem finding a job in whatever field I felt I wanted to pursue. I had pretty good grades and am coherent during interviews most of the time (I know that's hard to believe) so that helps a lot I think. I believe my broad-based education set me up to do whatever I want.

Now, I'm still waiting for that job that pays me to travel, write, take neat photos and be a full-time excentric bohemian. Know anyone who is hiring?
;)
Sprite

i have a liberal arts degree that required lots of poli sci classes, social thought and political economy. its an interdisciplinary major with poli sci, econ, sociology and philosophy.

i had no problems getting jobs after graduation. mostly because i started working in high end fine dining restaurants when i was in high school and did two summers of apprenticeship with a very talented chef. after 12 yrs of being an itinerant chef and ski bum i decided i had enough of restaurants.

went back to school and got another degree, BS Computer Science. I find this one to be a bit more useful in finding employment.

I looked at my brother in law's study guides for the MCAT and was horrified by the science part.

I was a Literature major, and I don't see how liberal arts people don't shit themselves on that part of the MCAT. How do you know that material???

I was a poli sci BA (in addition to math BS) but I more picked it for fun and because already had 6 our of 9 of the classes required for the major. I loved the classes, but wouldn't have done it as my soul major. In fact, my friends from that major who didn't study anything else... a lot of them did have hard times finding jobs they would like.

For me, it was an extremely helpful base in how to research foreign economies and put me ahead of a lot of people in my master's in political economy program in that regard. Later for my MBA, it hasn't helped at all. Nothing on the GMAT really is taken from things you would learn as a poli sci major except maybe some reading comprehension and grammar/sentence correction stuff that you would be exposed to in your papers and research- but you would get these benefits from ANY liberal arts undergrad major.

I'd say it depends on your ultimate career goals. Are you aiming for med school, or was that just a point you were trying to make? Also, if you're passionate about learning that discipline, I'd say go for it, because the rewards of studying something you're interested in and will apply yourself to during school will outweigh any hardships in the job market. That will shine through to potential employers anyways.

Good luck with everything. What school are you at? They may have cross-disciplinary programs that could interest you as well.

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Originally Posted by doublediamond223

What's important is that you do extremely well in whatever you major in, they don't care what it is, as long as it isn't basket weaving or something like that.

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Like Polisci?

I am 2 months away from getting a BA in Poli sci. Love the classes. I did it cause nothing else interested me (was an English maj. but seemed even more worthless). The way I look at it is that it cannot be a worthless degree because it helps you to understand our government and has made me much, much more politically aware and involved in local issues. Also look at it from a policy standpoint. Land use issues are a hot topic and will continue to be. This can involve ski access, sleds, mountain biking etc., etc. If you don't want to use a poli sci degree fine, but you can also make enough money to get by and wreeck havoc through working for a non profit or change from the inside (a government agency). There are ways to use it just find something in Gov that pisses you off and go for it.

Oh, and does anyone know if starbucks is hiring? I may need employment soon.

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones - majored in Geography w/Planning emphasis, and got a job as an urban planner. Shrug, doesn't always happen though. I know I was freaked out trying to figure out what to study in my junior year, since I was majoring in International Studies and WTF job can you start out in there? Scary.

To be honest, it's more the analytical thinking and learning skills that came in handy in my job, not the 'job specific' classes I'd taken. I studied to be a planner, and when I got the job had to be re-taught everything!!! Just like someone with no planning degree.

So, maybe not that helpful, but good luck.....study hard and learn to be a quick thinker, and that'll impress job interviewers even if you don't have a specificly job-appropriate degree.

I was a poli sci major. While I wish (now), that my major had required more "hard" science, the notion that an engineer is better trained to go to law school, work through problerms by critical thinking and then express a solution, is pure bullshit. Many of the engineers I know, including most of those I've represented in malpractice cases, can't express an idea for shit. If you choose to challengge yourself at college, you can train your mind to learn on your own, which is what law school, and ultimately whatever career path you choose, is about anyway. Critical thinking is not limited to math whizzes. I would encourage you to take math and science classes; a traditional "liberal arts" education would include such classes.

Ideas of what to do w/ a PolSci degree (keeping in mind that grad school is a good idea):

Law
MPA
MBA
Health Care Admin (huge business)
International Business, foreign language institute (ie. Thunderbird in Az.; Monterey Institute, London School of Economics)
Hotel/Restaurant/Resort Mgmt. (UNR, school in Switz. I forgot name of; CIA (Culinary Inst. of America), Ca. Culinary Acad.)
Graduate level city planning courses
Graduate level city management courses
Law Enforcement/Corrections (often offer excellent education benefits, as well as good health and other benefits)
The real CIA/NSA

thanks for the input.

tacoma-the med school was just a bitter quip, being a doctor would be way too difficult and way too much of a mindfuck for me.

kind of feel like polisci is just a slippery slope into law school, and i'll need to make some money before i do try that

only real problem is i've been anti-my school (union colelge by the way) for a while now (fuckign around, skipping classes freshman year not caring enough to know about 10% participation grade reduction for skipping 3+ classes, getting assfucked by teh occasional reading quiz)..but my polisci gpa is still 3.3 i think so eh

hmmm, i think i'm going to take a crack at computer science. always thought it would suck to be behind a comp all day, but i do that anyways writing shit, and i never considered the computer could be a wireless laptop in ootah...plus i have some math creds and my friend says he equates it to problem solving atfter learning the lingo

If there's nothing you really want to be then a poly sci degree is as good as any for not preparing you to do something you're not prepared to identify...or something like that.

Union's Poli Sci department is excellent btw. Yeah I'm biased being a PS major with a history minor, but compared to most of the other departments on campus the PS professors actually seemed to give a shit about teaching, rather then bitching about how bad this was at the school or how useless trimesters were or blah blah blah.

Plus like everyone else has said nobody gives a shit about what major you have in college.

PM me if you've got any ?'s I can tell you who's classes are worth taking and who to avoid like hell.

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Originally Posted by lax

hmmm, i think i'm going to take a crack at computer science. always thought it would suck to be behind a comp all day, but i do that anyways writing shit, and i never considered the computer could be a wireless laptop in ootah...plus i have some math creds and my friend says he equates it to problem solving atfter learning the lingo

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I went into a CS major with this same attitude. It's definitely similar to math as far as structure and problem solving go, but it's not math. Maybe it's because we were learning on ADA, but I spent the entire time frustrated and pissed off (It didn't help that there were only 2 girls in my major, one that was in her late 40s). I lasted 3 semesters (getting good grades) and gave it up for an MIS degree instead. I don't regret it because I can code well enough to do some interesting things with ArcMap, but I'm glad I didn't pursue it to a career.

This is not a knock on CS guys, it's just something I couldn't do on a regular basis. I was much happier taking a different approach learning DB, Sys Analysis and Networking stuff...and, being part of the business school, there was no shortage of fine lookin' ladies.

Some people go to college or university to prepare for a career that they have already decided on, some go to prepare for a career that they never pursue, some go to find a comfortable place to fuck off for four or more years and some go to learn and become educated people.

Poli sci may lead to Starbucks and engineering school may lead to riches but I know english majors that became outstanding doctors and engineers that can't be let out of their cubes without supervision.

You get back what you put in.

FWIT, I was a double major in govt/sociology, before eventually dropping govt and deciding to write an honors thesis for socy instead.

I feel that every govt class that I took was a complete waste of my time, as the classes consisted either of memorizing rote information to no apparent end, or simply arguing "politics", again, to no apparent end. It just felt that I was wasting my time (and money) taking classes that don't actually teach me anything useful or interesting (the hit-to-miss ratio of real information-to-bullshit was very underwhelming). The social choice/rational choice theory classes were immensely interesting, but that's about it.

Granted, many can and do say much the same about sociology, but I guess I find the study of people much more interesting than the study of bullshitting.

(caveat: I'm taking a year off school when I have 12 credits left to graduate, and going skiing instead, so take this with a large handful of salt.)

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Originally Posted by Obstruction

You get back what you put in.

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Yes, but some degrees show what you put in much better to the rest of the world - which is why many grad schools and employers like more stringent/structured programs like engineering, the 'hard' sciences, etc. It raises your average potential outcome.

90% of the polisci majors I knew went to law school or went into politics.

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Originally Posted by cj001f

Yes, but some degrees show what you put in much better to the rest of the world - which is why many grad schools and employers like more stringent/structured programs like engineering, the 'hard' sciences, etc. It raises your average potential outcome.

90% of the polisci majors I knew went to law school or went into politics.

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I won't argue that employers and some grad schools have a prejudice toward the "hard sciences." However, I am not convinced that there is necessarily more intellectual rigor in them than there is in the humanities.

I just believe that young people get too caught up in vocational training and the career chase in college. I read posts on the board here nearly everyday encouraging kids to pursue the dream and head west and ski. I just think they should take the same approach to college. If they get a charge out of organic chemistry or out of renaissance philosophy it's all good.

For what its worth my point is that a solid liberal education from a good school can lead to success in business, law and government.

This article by Matthew Stewart in the June Atlantic advances this point of view far more elequently than I have here.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/...ewart-business

My college girlfriend was a poli sci major. And retired as an Air Force Major, after a dozen years in SigInt.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

My college girlfriend was a poli sci major. And retired as an Air Force Major, after a dozen years in SigInt.

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Naked pics?

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

Naked pics?

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You wish. And I didn't even mention that before college, she was half of the US Mixed Pairs Acrobatics championship team. I haven't seen her in more than a decade, though, so I have no idea what shape she's in now.

AlpineMom didn't think she was hot, but then, AlpineMom doesn't think any of my exes are hot.

Lotsa Poli-Sci majors end up in Journalism. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by alpinedad

You wish. And I didn't even mention that before college, she was half of the US Mixed Pairs Acrobatics championship team. I haven't seen her in more than a decade, though, so I have no idea what shape she's in now.

AlpineMom didn't think she was hot, but then, AlpineMom doesn't think any of my exes are hot.

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ummmmm....flexible naked pics:yourock:

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Originally Posted by Obstruction

I won't argue that employers and some grad schools have a prejudice toward the "hard sciences." However, I am not convinced that there is necessarily more intellectual rigor in them than there is in the humanities.

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No, there's not necessarily more rigor. A Harvard grad isn't necessarily brighter and more motivated than a junior college grad. On average, both are true in my experience, hence the 'prejudice'. This is especially true with degrees earned in recent years. A degree that can open doors outside your current work/friend/network can be very useful in life - at least thats my experience. It can also open doors easier - again in my experience. A degree isn't an education, it's merely a portion of one. How large a proportion depends on the individual, the institution and how they interact.

Some good advice from Tacoma, sprite, et al. I was in a similar predicament - started as Poli-sci major, ended up doubling with a BS in Public Admin. I originally planned on a career in intel work, but decided it wasn't for me pretty early on. I ended up doing procurement and contracts negotiation work (actually using PUAD degree) for a few years, and then took a left turn into the IT world for a bit. I think the BS has really helped me there, even though it's not in a directly related field like comp sci/ comp eng, it still carries a bit more clout than a social sciences degree in certain fields. I, like others mentioned, eventually went the MBA route. YMMV.

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

While I wish (now), that my major had required more "hard" science, the notion that an engineer is better trained to go to law school, work through problerms by critical thinking and then express a solution, is pure bullshit.

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LOL. Easy there counselor. I was merely relateing what my friend told me while he was in law school. I don't think he told me(or I posted) anything that wasn't specific to him and his class.

I have a BA in political science, and did a double major in history (mostly because it was easy -- 80% of the class requirements for each field overlap), so I think technically I have a BA in both.

They're both worthless in terms of getting you a real world job in either field. Unless you want to go on in grad school, which means PhD program. They're both valuable in terms of getting you to think about the world, people and the way people interact, etc.

I went to law school. Can't say either poli sci or history was particularly useful for law, but I hated law school and most of the assholes I went to law school with, so there you have it.

Whatever you choose, I'd recommend giving it more thought than I did, which it sounds like you're doing now anyway. I waited until after finishing undergrad before coming to the realization that (a) these undergrad degrees weren't going to get me a real job, (b) post-grad work (PhD) meant years upon years of hard work with no pay, and (c) law school is only 3 years, and apparently leads to real jobs, so what the hell...

I was Poli Sci, I dont think it is any more worthless than most other LIberal Arts degree's. The one thing it did allow me to do was take alot of electives. I focused on Econ classes. At my school we had an Agricultural Economics program, it was an awesome major. Not just filled with theory, but actually an applied econ program. One of those classes introduced to my now choosen career. Trading. When I got my first job I was competing with phd's from Stanford, i was definetly at a disadvantage, I had to work my way up, started at the very bottom, it took an extra 2 yrs. But, as with any job in the real world, especially mine, it depended entirely on performance, not just fancy titles, or the ability to interpret the rocket science behind computer programs that are allready doing the math for you. Throw in the stats class I took, and I was good to go.

If I could do it over again, I think an accounting degree, like an engineering degree, is one of the few undergrad majors that qualifies you to be something when you graduate from a 4 yr program.

While I do have more experience in my field than most, don't under estimate the value of the right degree, or a graduate degree. It open's doors. WHen I left the trading floor I talked to hedge fund managers I knew about a job. Sadly they preferred some schmuck with a a North Western MBA and no experience, than someone with a kick ass track record and yrs of experience. Without the proper title to impress people with, i have been reduced to doing it on my own. No worries, that has its advantages.

With a poli sci degree, go to law school, its the quickest path to a good salary, and there will always be a need for it. Unfortunately I can attest to that as well.

So basically, unless you go to law school, go into sales, or work for senator jerkoff, you will have to do anything else the hardway.

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Originally Posted by bagtagley

...and, being part of the business school, there was no shortage of fine lookin' ladies.

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Of course since it was WVU, you were related to most of them. :the_finge

PolySci here as well. All of this sounds familiar.

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Originally Posted by VTskibum

Of course since it was WVU, you were related to most of them. :the_finge

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Only the toothless ones.