Do you live at the dealership?
Are the costs of owership really as bad as the rumors?
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Do you live at the dealership?
Are the costs of owership really as bad as the rumors?
You might want to ask here.
Depends on the model. Later is generally better. Early 90s had faulty electricsQuote:
Originally posted by Cornholio
Do you live at the dealership?
Are the costs of owership really as bad as the rumors?
This may not be helpful, but I owned an Audi 4000 for over 4 years ('til some jackass from Kansas t-boned me), and I only did typical wear and tear maintanence. It was quirky, but never left me stranded.
I will say though, that some seemingly normal replacement items (exhaust, brake rotors) were a bit expensive, but that typically was an excuse to go ahead and buy a nice high-po aftermarket part instead.
Which model, engine type, tranny type car are you thinking of? I've currently got 3 different audi quattros so I might be able to answer a question or 2.
Checked on audiworld.com... they all seem to think owning an Audi costs as much as owning an Infinity or an Acura. I'm highly skeptical of this.
Anyway, I'm looking at:
97-99 A4 2.8, quattro, manual.
Not necessarily. The better question is, are you able to do alot of your own work? And do you have a trusted mechanic that can tackle the things that you don't want to get into? Buying at the dealer is only necessary for certain parts. Most of the replacement parts can be sourced through other avenues for a considerable discount.
Look for a 98+, with the 30v engine. Good cars. I've got a couple friends with them well into the 100k range. Nothing but normal maintenance. Some of the earlier A4's had some front control arm issues, premature wear, don't know if they ironed that out on the later cars. Getting very affordable now.
Depends on what you're looking for. An Audi won't equal a Honda or Toyota for reliability and low maintenance costs, but it will be lots more fun to drive. A 2.8 manual should be a blast (can't say I've driven one, but if I were to buy a 4-dr, that'd be high on my list).
Parts can be expensive, but if you can do things yourself, that's most of the battle. An Audi dealer will be the most expensive way to go, independent shops that specialize in European cars can be pretty reasonable. It is, however, important to find someone that is used to working on those types of cars. Wouldn't really recommend the corner gas station.
Based on my own personal observations, I would go for an Audi long before a BMW. There seems to be a never-ending line of BMWs pulling in for service at a local dealer, significantly fewer Audi's. Yes, there are more BMW's on the road, but the ratio I see at the dealer is still way out of whack.
Speaking from experience with my German car (and, yes, time spent mostly at the parts counter of a local dealership), '87 Porsche 951 :D
Object: 1999 A4 Avant, 2.8 manual Bose Leather ~90000 miles. (edit: owned since new).
Problems: blown water pump ($200), new brakes($600 - %$*$%), fried driver side door sensor ($600 - $%#&#&#&&#&$$@). Erratic led display for cd, mileage, temperature and boner turgidity.
Errata: The door sensor dying pissed me off. Car doors should last more than 4 years. Had it not been for that, I'd go for another one. Best car I've ever owned. Not that fast, but smooth like liquid metal and an incredibly solid feel: safe. Fantastic in snow. A major problem has been hearing loss due to major woofer action.
Summary: Evidently, there's a lot more problems with the earlier ones. Check Consumer's Reports and you'll see that the 99-00's are significantly better.
boSe suks!Quote:
Originally posted by Buster Highmen
A major problem has been hearing loss due to major woofer action.
The front control arms are a notorious problem with the '97 quattro, apparently. For some reason, Audi uses 4 control arms per wheel, which cost between 300 and 400 per arm to replace. I can't afford any more arms of my own for this project, so this is something I'm checking pretty religiously. Also, I think I can do a chunk of the work on my own if needed.
I did see that the 99s are a step up from the previous cars in terms of overall reliability, although if I get a car where I'm confident the front control arms have been replaced, and it's well below 60K or through the 60k service, I think I may be in the clear for a few more miles.
Thanks for the feedback! Back to your regularly scheduled dry-spell programming.
I have a 2000 S4 and love it. It's a little different than the A4 your looking at but same question probably applies. I spend about as much time as I did with my Jeep in the shop. Its been simple stuff though. Leaking sunroof, broken light bracket things for those super bright lights, etc. Nothing major. It has developed a bit of a spark knock though, so needs a quick tune up.
On a plus note, handles my commute in luxury, way comfortable. And gets pretty good gas milage for a sporty car. Biggest down side is the thing is damn fast. But looks like normal 4 door cars and rarely gets noticed by the Man.
Quote:
Originally posted by LCC
It has developed a bit of a spark knock though, so needs a quick tune up.
I'd get that checked out quickly, knocking isnt good. If its been going on for long enough you could have already have done damage to your pistons.(Ask me how I know) Also, knocking leads to detonation, and nobody here likes detonation..
About the BMW stuff, they are very reliable cars, and parts when purchased from a wholesale company arent much more than other foreign cars. I've got an 87 325is and its been great, cheap to maintain, best engine in the world(straigh sixs rock my world) and put up with 250xxx miles including 2 seasons of autocrossing and several track events before finally saying I've had enough and leaking oil like an elderly person with control problems.
I always thought they were easier to work on than Audis personally. (Comparatively to the iX bmw models.)
Buy an Audi Quattro Sport!
oh yeah, check out specialstage.com, there are quite a few audi fanatics there, and all drive the hell out of their cars.
No offense, but for a car that costs as much $ as an S4 I'd be pissed with those problems.Quote:
Originally posted by LCC
I have a 2000 S4 and love it. It's a little different than the A4 your looking at but same question probably applies. I spend about as much time as I did with my Jeep in the shop. Its been simple stuff though. Leaking sunroof, broken light bracket things for those super bright lights, etc. Nothing major. It has developed a bit of a spark knock though, so needs a quick tune up.
If you want reliability in a German car go for the one not mentioned Mercedes w/4matic. There's a ride that goes on forever.
I'm on my fifth, so obviously I like 'em. Mine haven't broken more than anything else I've owned. German cars are definitely a bit pricey to maintain/repair.
Yea, I know two guys with the A4's..
They both say that they will HAVE to get rid of them when the warranty runs out.. According to them, the repairs are too expensive and frequent...
I've heard alot of good about the A4s, but mostly from people who race against them. Supposedly you can put in an aftermarket boost controller and get seriously more power from the turbocharged Audis because Audi built in a ridiculous safety margin on the boost.
Personally, I would recommend a Subaru WRX. You won't pay as much for the brand, and they're bomber, especially in snow.
Check out www.wrxforum.com if you don't trust me. Or www.rx7club.com and ask them, they won't be as biast.
EDIT: spelling of "biast", originally "byast"
Yikes.Quote:
Originally posted by seldon
they won't be as byast.
Bad spelun allirt.
But audis also are notorious for having ridiculously weak trannies, especially under added boost. I've seen guys blow em up at the strip, same goes for WRXs, but the new STi tranny is stronger i believe.Quote:
Originally posted by seldon
I've heard alot of good about the A4s, but mostly from people who race against them. Supposedly you can put in an aftermarket boost controller and get seriously more power from the turbocharged Audis because Audi built in a ridiculous safety margin on the boost.
I had a '98 A4 1.8TQM for 3 years and >50k miles before moving to London.
Liked it so much the first time that I just bought a 2000 A4 1.8TQM last night.
I personally don't think the 2.8 is worth the premium price and find the 1.8 FEELS as fast and is possibly more fun to drive and that is before the chip which makes it easily as fast if not faster than a 2.8.
My only question is do I get some form of extended warranty because I do think repairs will cost a bit more for the Audi than say Honda, but love the Quattro and the car!
I concur. My buddy bought a 99 A4, chipped it, bigger turbo, added bost, cat-back exhaust. Smoking fast, almost doubled the factory HP. But when we took it to the strip, he smoked the clutch, couldnt handle 3000rpm drops at the line.Quote:
Originally posted by CantDog
But audis also are notorious for having ridiculously weak trannies, especially under added boost. I've seen guys blow em up at the strip
S4 is a nice ride, little pricey for me. Wish they made my maxima in a AWD. that would rock.
I recently bought a 2001.5 1.8T avant with 5 speed and spent some time reserching these cars. I personally like the inline turbocharged engines, fewer parts and easier to work on.
I would recommend getting the newest version you can afford. In >99.5 there were some exterior and interior changess. As others have mentioned, on the early cars control arms get noisey. Make sure the services are up to date and the 60k has been done. Make sure the timing belt and water pump have been changed. I'm not real familiar with the V6 engines, but I have heard both good and bad from them. My brother has a 92 100 FWD with V6 and has had no problems with the engine, he bought used and now has >120k on it. The rear electronic differential lock (EDL) uses the brakes to control wheel spin so the rear brakes get used up about every 20k miles. Electrics are not an Audi strong point so make sure everything works. Back seat leg room is not very big, make sure it fits your needs.
As far as drivetrain, they are pretty bulletproof. You can't get much more power from the V6, so I wouldn't worry. As far as people braking trannies at the strip, I don't see how they can complain. The real early cars, 80's and early 90s had overbuilt drivetrains with lots of margin and can take massive power increases. The > mid 90's and later cars were obviously designed with CAD and the engineering margins were reduced. I don't see how someone can complain when they double/triple the power from 150hp to 450hp and break something. If they want to play in that game, get out the wallet.
Good luck and find a good one. quattro is addicting. I've been sucked into them since the 80's and can't shake the disease. And get some snow tires, it makes winter driving even more fun.
dblmnd- you bring up an interesting point about design change in the mid 90's. i love the early 90's luxury cars (bmw, mercedes, even volvo) b/c they feel so completely overbuilt and they lack a lot of the fancy electronic stuff. is this just me being nostalgic, or is it true.
Dirt cheap 4wd with cheapo parts: Merkur XR4ti. People give them away, and they can be hopped up quite cheaply. Whats also nice is a Cosworth engine swap is possible, and been documented plenty of times. This is a future project of mine.
The 4wd mitsubishi galants(or maybe it was diamante I cant remember) were also nice, really bomber drivetrain. There are guys running stock lookers back home that are low 10 second cars. These are also dirt cheap. I'd love to take the drivetrain and stuff it in the wagon form.
I'm running a 91 Accord Wagon right now, the thing is bomber. Speedo/ODO stopped working at 180xxx and now has somewhere shy of 250. I did a rebuild at 150xxx after I blew the engine. Blowing things up has been a common occurance with me. The thing has more room than my friends 4Runner, gets over 30 mpg, runs on 87, and takes loads of crap. Ice racing, bracket racing, autocrossing, and rallycrossing, and she still comes back for more.
Update on the S4. Buddy and I went of a long drive in it, with a second set of ears to find the problem. He is a mechanic as well. Spark knock is not the problem, its somewhere in the drivetrain. They sound strangly similar. I am headed to the shop this week sometime. But the car has 72k miles on it, so some mantience is expected.
Really, all the problems I have had have not been that big of a deal. Sure the car was pricey, but I also got it used at a dealship with a warrenty up to 100,000 miles, which covers just about everything. So I take it in, pay $60 for an oil change (synthetic, 6+ quarts of oil for the bi turbos, thats not bad) and they take care of these things for me.
The tranny is the 6-speed and from the research I've done, its a lot stronger than the tiptronic. So the car can handle a bit more power still. And I also believe both turbos in the S4 only push about 11 or so, and can be bumped up to near 20. That with an exhaust and a few other goodies, and you have a car with around 450bhp.
If I was looking at a new A4, which would cost more than my used S4, I would make sure to get the 1.8T. Engine has been around for years, and is a lot of fun to drive. And turbos are a lot great in the mountains as power stays the same at different altitudes.
Am I planning on keeping this car once the warrenty is up? Probably not. I like new shit.
The Merc 4matic, not after seeing 3 coworkers get hosed with those things.
Good luck with your decision. I love my Audi, its a blast to drive!
Yeah it is...I drove my friend's S4...80 in 2nd no problem...sweet jebus!Quote:
Originally posted by LCC
I love my Audi, its a blast to drive!
Great info!
I'm trying to find stuff about extended warranties, which seems like a smart idea. They're expensive, but so are the repairs.
I've heard from a couple people that the 1.8t is more prone to smaller mechanical issues than the v6, but all the guys at audiworld (and here, sounds like!) dig thier chipped up 4s.
Right now, I need a 300hp car like I need a hole in my head, though I am thinking about autocrossing it, and the pep off the line (of the stock 6) seems pretty weak. Having driven hondas for 7 or 8 years, it's tough to keep the tach at 5 or 6 in the Audi sometimes.
(edit about the wrx: First, good luck finding one under 17, which is OOR for me. Second, while I think they compare pretty well with the Audi on the track, for general driving around I'll take the German.)
Heh.Quote:
Originally posted by seldon
EDIT: spelling of "biast", originally "byast"