A misleading title.

As I raced towards that final puberty I realized that every road I'd been down led to the place I'd found myself at that exact moment. There was no reason to be there, only an observation that I was there and that the path to get back was lengthy.

We are all so very temporary. Our time here is just a blip. Why not do something larger than ourselves? Something to better mankind. I will be forgotten. You will be forgotten, but our creations and learnings can last forever. All we are given is time. We don’t know how much we have, but we know we’ll run out of it. And yet we sell it the highest bidder in 40-hour increments. If you didn’t spend your existence battling for paychecks to buy stuff what would you do? Would you find trivial ways to pass the time and entertain yourself or would you invent something, paint something, write something, build something, discover something. Would a man without any financial motives gain a higher enlightenment?

Discuss...

Later in the evening we’ll be showcasing unique ideas to arrange your teddy bear collections.

but what if everbody dropped out of the system ???? do we in fact need workers to support the platform which holds the creative among us ???

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Originally posted by board
but what if everbody dropped out of the system ???? do we in fact need workers to support the platform which holds the creative among us ???

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no... key west is a perfect example.
well... you do need bartenders still.

No. Everyone must create the platform for themselves. A creative mind will find a way to make their platform work. If each person makes their platform work then everybody's platform works and nobody is screwed. I just think that the bi-monthly piece of paper is holding us back. I don't think we need to do away with it. I just think we need to rise above it.

Is a scientist a more noble job than a janitor? Is an artist a more noble job than a garbage man? Is the system escapable? Doesn't dropping out of a predetermined "40" hr work week put you into a sub system of people who have dropped out of a "40" hr work weeks? Do you not then fall into their patterns?

Escapability is a non-random thought process. Millions of people do it each year, and in balance other millions apply for their 401k, drive home in their m-3's and log on to the DSL to work from home.

Those who do not work are within a system and pattern. Those who bum are part of large group of people. Anarchy isn't real, because in becoming a destroyer of the system, you fall prey to falling into being a destroyer of the system, therefore you fall into another system.

No job is more noble than another. You're missing the point. This isn't about escape. This isn't about working less. This is about working more. This is about doing more with your time (the little that we have). This is about doing something meaningful with that time rather than something that won't leave a trace. This is about carving a mans head on a mountainside when you get home rather than watching TV. This isn't about destroying a system. It's about bettering it rather than just flowing through it blindly. It's about leaving something behind. Not taking something away.

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Originally posted by board
but what if everbody dropped out of the system ???? do we in fact need workers to support the platform which holds the creative among us ???

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I'm gonna say we do need workers, here's the reason: As the brother of someone who will never do work of any substance and for that matter has no way of creating a platform for himself (medical reasons), someone will always need to be there to support him. Also, drugged, you're looking at it from the point of view that everyone is a creative person, which is definately not the case. In an ideal and perfect world, it maybe is possible, but maybe I missed the point...

All the questions to the thread thus far have been about the masses. Where's the individual thought? What would you do? No one person's plan has to appeal (or work) for everyone. This isn't a mass social experiment. It's a "What would you do?" in this situation.

It's a wake-up call to what is real and lasting.

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Originally posted by Odin
Is a scientist a more noble job than a janitor?

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Depending on the scientist, they may both work on shit.

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Originally posted by drugged_monkey
Would a man without any financial motives gain a higher enlightenment?

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w/o any financial motives I know I'd sure as hell ski alot more. :D

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Originally posted by Tyrone Shoelaces
w/o any financial motives I know I'd sure as hell ski alot more. :D

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Ya, it works real good. :D


The way I'll be remembered is through my kids and their families.

I write family histories about my ancestors. They did many great deeds during their lives, but not very noticeable to the masses. But they didn't do it for recognition. They did it for love of their families. :)

Ahhh Senor Monkey, my apologies for digressing in a different direction.

More to your point,

It behooves the general person to do 'nothing' instead of something because 'nothing' is risk free. Unfortunately we as a society are trying to move forward into an era of less risk. Now while lessening the risks from birth defects is good; sheltering someone from learning how it feels to lose, or how it feels to get a scrape/cut/bruise is not so good.

So my point is this, when everyone wants to lose 'nothing' then no one gains anything.

Thus ends the sociological impact.

From the personal standpoint, and this question....

"Would a man without any financial motives gain a higher enlightenment?"

Not necessarily, money is an inanimate object made evil by the grasps of men. Avarice can consume someone merely for the purpose of having the best bottle collection or hippest capri pants. I think a good choice is to be the best person you can be and to take care of the people that love and surround you.

My original idea was to point out that not everyone has greatness stamped upon their life, and to think that affecting just one life in a positive way is a great legacy in and of itself.

I'm not speaking to the general person. I don't want to be the general person. Risk (and more so failure) is flaunted in front of us every night. It climbs the ratings higher and higher every year. A person stands in-front of their "tribe", music judgement panel, potential date and is then told why they suck as America watches. We love watching others fail. And there's no shortage of people wanting everything right now to risk that failure. It's not about loss. Screw fear of losing. You can only feel bad about your endeavor if you choose to. Anyone can laugh at you. Even if you win. It's up to you to decide how you feel. Don't give them the control. I'd rather be the guy that wrote the shitty movie than the fat jackass writing the negative review in his local paper. Nobody's writing about him (except for me...I guess). ;)

To quote something I heard awhile ago...where I don't know: "Money is not the route of all evil. The lack of money could be." People do some horrible things for that dollar. What if you didn't have to worry about it. And by this I mean you personally or one person (not society as a whole). How much of your time and brain does that dollar hunt occupy? Could it be spent doing something more profound?

I like the last sentence of your post the best. I agree. I also agree that greatness isn't something given. It's something that's earned. I also don't think this about recognition. It's not about being remembered. It's about changing things for the better with what you have. It's about leaving something behind. Something bigger than ourselves.

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Originally posted by drugged_monkey
It's about leaving something behind. Something bigger than ourselves.

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you're describing the best things about being a parent, monkey. an obsessive, selfless need to make someone elses life better with little or no thought to how it affects your own life. to build a legacy without caring if the world remembers you or not. to support a person who WILL be happy, fulfilled, loved and remembered.

i think your biological monkey clock is ticking and you don't even realize it.

Actually this is has something to do with that. They're not coming anytime soon, but it has to do with setting something up to a point that they can do something other than the standard 9-5 if they choose.

"you sell your waking life for minimum wage, but you get your dreams for free"


from the movie Waking Life. A really great movie if your into philosophy. It's modern, up to date, and pretty interesting.

here are some quick reviews that I thought portrayed the movie pretty well:

"Digital video + digital animation + ancient questions = A visionary, stunning examination of the big picture."


"Anyone who finds value in wondering who we are or why we're here, what's real and what's not, should be overjoyed to find a theatrical release with the same sense of curiosity."

Has anybody else seen this movie?

From another DM......

Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself.

We aren't that far from going out to hunt for our food. So 9-5 is a dramatic luxury. Especially when half of it is talking to imaginary friends on your computer.

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Originally posted by iskibc
From another DM......

Throughout human history, as our species has faced the frightening,terrorizing fact that we do not know who we are, or where we are going in this ocean of chaos, it has been the authorities, the political, the religious, the educational authorities who attempted to comfort us by giving us order, rules, regulations, informing, forming in our minds their view of reality. To think for yourself you must question authority and
learn how to put yourself in a state of vulnerable, open mindedness; chaotic, confused, vulnerability to inform yourself.

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I wrote that? I must've been drunk with all the spelling errors and duplicate words.

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Originally posted by Benny Profane
We aren't that far from going out to hunt for our food. So 9-5 is a dramatic luxury. Especially when half of it is talking to imaginary friends on your computer.

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I agree. We're just animals that shave. I have fingernails and women breast feed. The 9-5 is a luxury. It would be nice for the 9-5 to be a choice though. All we have is time and how much of it is spent doing things we don't want to do or don't really mean anything? If you could give someone that time back would you? Would you like to have that time? Could you do something more? A Puerto Rican co-worker once told me that before a man can die he must have a child and write a book.

Dipstick, sounds good. I'll go add it to the Netflix queue.

I say that if you are a good cook and a good fuck, you've got it covered.

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Originally posted by drugged_monkey
I wrote that? I must've been drunk with all the spelling errors and duplicate words.

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No, you didn't. From another Drugged Monkey.

Is this the beginning of an advertisment for the Drugged-Monkey No Money Down All Protein ABFlex Colonic seminar coming this weekend to the local 5 star Omni Resort with Carlton Robbins headlining the guest speaking list?

As for the original question, yes, having more time to pursue interests would be nice.

As to your second point, how do you know the offspring will enjoy the opportunity that you are providing? Would they understand the gift and use it wisely or will it go up in smoke? Some of the best parts of life are what you work for and create with your own hands. Would you be doing a disservice as a provider by not sharing this experience with them? What happens if the gravitational pull of the consumerism black hole is stronger than your teachings and they want to wear ties to work so they can climb higher on the corporate ladder to purchase the color display camera flip phone which will allow them to call the manicurist and schedule an appointment to remove the dirt from under the nails so they won't look like manual workers when purchasing a new motor boat larger than their neighbors on credit by refinancing 125% of their home value which leaves them making monthly payments for the next 30 years on a depreciating liabilities which might be used for a few years and then break when the manufacturers warranties expire?

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Originally posted by Odin
Is a scientist a more noble job than a janitor?

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[half baked] excuse me, janitor?

yes, scientist? [/hb]

I would not be able to leave anything behind nor create a legacy. If I wrote a book... nobody would want to read it. If I were to creat art... it would be stick figures (note: I'm not saying this in the sad, sober tone... it's just who I am.. or who I am not.. or :confused: never mind!)

If money were no object... I would not create anything meaningful or awe-inspiring nor would I leave any legacy of myself. In five generations' time, I would be forgotten.

What would I do?

Probably a mix of the following:

- go to school on my own schedule... I enjoy learning.. finish off the philosophy degree, take a lot of history classes, stay up on biology/science front
- travel - while I have seen more than a lot of people (thanks in part to my overseas family), there is a lot more out there that I want to see.. no, experience, not see. The great part about having family in Sweden + England + Ireland (?? don't know them in Ireland, but I know they're there!!!) is visiting and being able to appreciate the difference in culture (however subtle) and be less a tourist. In no particular order I'd like to visit: more National Parks, Eastern Europe, the Mediterranean coast, Rio, Kenya (Killimanjaro.. sp??), Greece, the Far East (got that, Aldo? ;) )
- and of course... ski everywhere, become a GOOD surfer, learn to kayak, learn to rock climb, etc..

Okay.. back to my current 40 hour work week... but thank you for the thought game.

I've reproduced. I may not be remembered but my genes will contribute to the rest of humanity. If my great great great great grandchild does something remarkable/memorabe, I have contributed something worthwhile.