What's the advantage of using DH tubes in bigger tires? Instead of the normal 2.35 type? Lower Psi, less pinch flats? Fill me in....
thanks.
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What's the advantage of using DH tubes in bigger tires? Instead of the normal 2.35 type? Lower Psi, less pinch flats? Fill me in....
thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z
both are advantages.... disadvantage is the weight makes for slower rolling.
Yeah you do not want to run dh tubes on bike you do a lot of climbing on.
I don't even put full dh tires in my dh bike.
I didn't use to either, until I had a wonderful experience where my front tire came flying off the rim at speed. It was great.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
I have a DH tube in the back of my Heckler because I seemed to pinch flat a lot. I haven't since I put it in and I haven't really noticed any difference in climbing, etc, but I'm not really a weight weeny.
Pros :
+Not so much snakebites
+More effective in braking/tracktion on some terrain
+Difficult to have a catastrophic failure á la crashnburn...
+On hard tails using big tyre+low psi you get can use the tyre as "suspension".
+Looks good
Cons
-Riding with lower pressures degrades the banking performance and you might experience the crash´nburn thingy. And you might blow your rims easier because you are not using your tyre to "support" the rim.
-Pinches easier
-Miserable to pedal flats. Uphill,uh,never mind. This is dh,remember.You use lifts.
Many peeps who rides competitions ride super skinny tyres. Like 2"stuff with high pressures, just to get the speed advantage.
You might succeed with it if you know how to fine tune your suspension to work to each track. Otherwise just end up blowing your tubes and placing last.
I used some maxxis minion 2.7"s+hutchinson raws for a season riding dirt and DH on my imperial hard tail. No pinches or blow tyres for a season.
My rims didnt take the beating as well, after the season i had to trash them...they fixes 4 times and in the end they had cracks in 4 places.
Mavics suck.
Oh,and the tube is as important as the tyre.
Some heavy duty tubes,like hutchinson verte gr natural rubbers and you are set.
Weights as much as a fat cop, but very durable.
Is that when you crashnburn'd?:tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by crashnburn'd
Ever since sticky tires came around, I started using higher tire pressures with these specialized 3.0 cruiser tubes. They're not as thick as a dh tube but they also don't stretch very much to fit a 2.5-2.7 tire.....so they at least retain their original thickness. So the wheel is lighter, I run higher pressures because of the thinner tube but also because I'm still getting good traction from the gooey rubber, and the tire dosn't feel like floppy turd on my wheel.
I corner like tron cycle yo:D......so I can't stand low tire pressures that end up with a lot rollover in corners. (20psi etc).
This is all my dh bike btw. I gots tubeless on me ittty bitty bike.
z- i am going away from dh tubes.... don't really need them. any advantage is overwhelmed by the weight savings of a reg. tube. at least on a hardtail.
True. I used to run a DH tube in the rear of my freeride hardtail, but switched to a regular tube a while ago to save some weight for climbing. As long as you use a good wire bead tire, the tube doesn't matter that much. I haven't had one flat yet and I run a low psi on the downhill....Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
Have to disagree on this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
It is on hard tails where difference is the biggest,since you dont have rearshock to suck it up.
But this only applies to DH.
Biker/dual cross tracks are usually made of relatively smooth materials,so you dont need the beefing up there.
Or if you are actually riding with the bike some single tracks. Then you are not charging anyway (who the hell would make laps with bodyarmour and fullface...).
The weight is huge on good tubes. Those huchinsons weight together almost on kilo, or 1lbs per/tube.
So using tubeless might be a viable option if you are more into suffering type of riding?
well, my point is that there really isn't any extra cush gained with a DH tube in there on a hardtail... and you aren't really going as fast as on a DH bike so you don't really need the extra pinchflat protection. a 2.7 dh tire with 18-20 psi isn't a regular pinchflatter. i'd say save the pound, and climb betterQuote:
Originally Posted by Meathelmet
Same subject,opposite point of views, then.:pQuote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
Yes,the point being:You gain extra margin with hd tubes.
If you ride dual/dh or huck with your hard tail,noncompetition wise and use lifts, use a hard core tubes.
Especially if you have bolt-on rear axle (non-speed lock?) so you dont have to fuck around with tools when repairing tubes.
If you dont, then dont bother with heavy duty tubes,or tubes at all.
Eh?
yeah dude i hear you... i guess its all a matter of how big/fast.
i really have never taken my hardtail off anything bigger than 5ft to falt concrete, so i could see any bigger than that or 10ft on trail a dh tube is called for. but Z won't be dropping stuff like that anytime soon.
i heart bolt on rear axles on the hardtail. so $$$ so much more stiffness torsionally. fuggin rad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
i hear you man,i hear you!
http://www.hi5bikes.fi//images/coasterdh.jpg
12mm´s of umpaah...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathelmet
10
;)
12Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
:biggrin:
http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/Bi...abe::5658.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathelmet
touche'
NORMAL bolt-ons are 10.
A 12 wouldn't fit in a hardtail. Not a normal one at least.
This is interesting though.
einbaubreite: 150 mm
So that's obviously a 150mm rear spacing but I've never seen a 150mm rear end that's 12mm and NOT a thru-axle.
Does that bolt come out so that you can slide the hub into the dropouts?
Fits the imperial and other 10mm dropouts since it has two notches in the axle (making it in that sense 10mm).Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
You cant se them in the picures apparently...
You have a good eye,sherlock!
:)
Whoa........that's kind of cool. You have one I guess?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathelmet
I just looked at their website but it said the same thing as that german site.....150 spacing, 12mm bolt-on
Interesting stuff. I should grind out the dropouts on my d.o.c. to get that bigger axle in there if they make a 135.:)
Cool, good advice. Was contemplating throwing one in the rear for some cush but I don't think its necessary....Still want to bolt-on the back though...
Dh tubes are hype. Rubber can stretch. Buying DH tubes is like buying Magnum condoms---you are just compensating.
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This is very bad advice. DH tubes are not hype. Obviously you can't be speaking from experience, or live in an area with really smooth terrain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Choke Slam
Edit: sp
I quit using DH tubes the day I discovered tubeless. I can run 15 lbs or less safely if need be (really gnarly course, wet, etc..). I normally run around 20-24 lbs with zero flats in two years DHing. Even on my "trail rig", I run at around 26-28 lbs and still don't flat. I have blown a tire off the rim but that was because I din't maintain the Stan's (forgot to check if it had dried out, ran Porcupine at about 10 lbs, being stupid). I carry DH tubes to the races with me just as a quick backup, otherwise, go tubeless (I run Ghetto tubless on everything, cost about $5 per tire, way less than a DH tube).
[QUOTE=trainnvain]This is very bad advice. DH tubes are not hype. Obviously you can't be speaking from experience, or live in an area with really smooth terrain.
The Boulder front range area is pretty smooth and I haven't ridden too much, I mean my post count is only like at 12 or 13...
I run Michelin 2.8" Dh tires on my Steelhead at 18 psi with tubes designed for up to 2.1" tires. Even with 6 foot drops to concrete I have no problems. The issue here is that an extra milimeter of rubber won't really offer any more pinchflat protection. If you are getting a lot of pinch flats either run more psi, get burlier tires, or ride smoother!
Clearly bad advice...
Have to concur with Mr. AG - he turned Ski Monkey and I onto the ghetto stans, and neither of us have had a flat since. Most of last season, a couple UPS rides this spring, lots and lots of usage at varying pressures. A beautiful thing.
Another vote for tubeless. Best move I ever made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choke Slam
Shit I break Magnums but not as easily as I break Durex. WTF should I do, would love to go tubeless as it feels more natural but continued use of the machine dictates tubes
Ghetto tubeless doesn't work on some rims though. I have a couple wheels we've tried it on and they won't stay inflated for more than an hour. One wheel was pretty dinged up, and I can understand how it wouldn't seal. The other was brand new... no idea what's up with that. Could be the tire too. Who knows.
Ok, so had my first flat with the Ghetto Stans. Actually, two flats last night downhilling in Bountiful. But then, it's been almost a year, I didn't put fresh Stans in, the tires started to go soft and I didn't notice (:nonono2: ) and finally gave out on me. Pssssssssssssssssssss....terrible sound when you're near the top of a run with no spares! Loooonnnnggg walk out. But at least I had company - a friend flatted shortly before I did and I waited for him to catch up. Heh.Quote:
Originally Posted by yentna
But it's a good thing - my tires are uber bald so it's good timing. Such a pain to switch out tires so I've been procrastinating it and dealing with the baldness. Now, with two flats and old Stans, good chance to upgrade the tires just in time for the Bountiful DH. Looking at my tires, Ican't believe how long I've let them go, they're suitable to be semi-slicks on a commuter bike!
Grin.
I've never run tubeless, so I probably shouldn't post, but one of my friends had problems going tubeless with the low durometer Kenda Stick-e tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by altagirl
Yenta, year old Stan's will fail (I've learned the hard way as well). I now add a bit as the summer goes along and actually clean out the old and add new in the spring. I've found after a hard UPS ride, I need to check everytime just to be sure I didn't force any out.
I've heard that Kenda's really don't hold up very well with Stan's, the rubber actually breaks down. I've only had monster Kenda's (their 2.7 is HUGE) and didn't have an issue but smaller tires could.
I have a set of 2.35 Nevegal Stick-E's with the Downhill casing and wire bead. Been running them tubeless since last spring without a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Altagirl
I've run every tubeless scenario.......stans strips with/without tubeless tires, maxxis strips with/without tubeless tires, ust rims with/without ust tires and by FAR the best setup is ust rims and tires with stans. I've got two bikes right now with that setup.
That said, I absolutely could not get a tubeless setup to work on my DH bike. No matter what the configuration, I kept burping tires. But on my xc and "freeride" bikes, I've been stoked. The traction and rolling resistance differences are noticible.
Choke slam........how long you been riding DH? Yeah tubes stretch when inflated but thicker dh tubes retain a greater thickness because they start out that way and are MADE for bigger tires, reducing the necessary degree of expansion to fit the tire.
On the kendas.......a buddy of mine did talk to a kenda rep at sea otter and came back with the info that there is something about the tire that gets compromised with stans. Not to say it won't work since I know people have done it, but it was interesting to hear.
Yah, that'll be my new plan, sheepish grin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Altagirl
From what I hear, the DH casing is strong enough but the lighter (read thinner) tires can have problems. I will admit, Kenda's rock, especially for the price. We both got a set of Nevegal's at Durango a few years ago for $20 a set, from Johnny T personally. I then went and tried to rip my leg off on my first run with them (if you remember, a torn MCL, fractured tib-platue, etc...:mad: ).Quote:
Originally Posted by Arty50
kid- he's been dh'ing since the mid 90's. convinced me to sack up and get off the ss'tip.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
Quote:
Originally Posted by marshalolson
Then he should know better.:biggrin:
Seriously though.......for a given impact of rim wall against a squished tire on a rock, a thicker tube will take more before splitting. On the rare occasions I stick dh tubes in my dh bike, there's a noticible difference for the same pressure in how many times I'm rolling to a stop with the flappity flap.
Now given, some brands of dh tubes aren't all that. I can't stand intense dh tubes. But for the most part they are more durable. I just don't use them because of the weight, and with sticky tires I can run higher pressures and still get good traction.
I'm really glad this thread exists. The stans in my tires is almost a year old now. I've never had a problem with losing air in my tires except over long periods of time. Well, when I checked my tires Friday it had only been a few days since my last ride and they had lost about 10 psi each. They held up fine on my ride, but it's a mellow one. Time to put some new goop in.
I had a guy bring his bike in for a tune up and when we spun the wheels it sounded, and spun like there was sand in the tires. The Stans had totally dried up and turned into little rubber balls. The tires sounded like those hippy rain stick things.
Just cleaned em out, freshened up the goop and was good to go.