Why are some kids so useless?

Okay, I'm not saying I'm and educator or anything, but maybe I am. But how did kids get so useless, or have they always been that way at a certain age.
A "friend" of mine teaches at a high school and just got an email from the student services supervisor, that stated that said kid should leave the room and seek one on one help at the resource room in our building, to get him to buy into school and focus on understanding the content. Therefore not participating in class discussions, help from peers or help from the teacher. Now said student shows up consistently late for class (meaning he misses the instruction) and has his mp3 player on during the entire class (meaning he misses instruction and discussion). Do you extend the kid some extra help while other students in class could use some one on one but are getting by and actually trying? This kid is ridiculously high maintenance and so many other kids could use the resources available at the school but because he just doesn't like school and isn't doing well he gets all the resources, plus my time?

Oh he's learning............how to work the system.

Heh, wait until he grows up and he has to go sit in the cube. Or worse...the Quickie Mart. He's gonna be crying for an opportunity to go back to a potentially mentally stimulating environment.

He thinks school sucks...but he knows not what lies before him!

Sprite

I'm a teacher too and I've seen some kids with the right amount of attention, turn their attitude around. But, there is not guarantee this will happen. None at all. As a teacher, I usually treat everyone as much as I can about the same in my classroom. If they aren't into school, I try to talk about something else with them at least to make a connection. Often if you just show interest, they do turn around. Then there's some kids who come to class everyday, do some things in class, never do homework, but are very nice kids..... I don't know what their future holds and I'm not always sure what to do with these kids. I give them help if they need it. I try to get them to do homework. I try to give them help, short of doing the assignment for them..... Obviously students like these have not bought into the idea of school, but I don't think everyone should buy into the idea of school..... I just hope they will figure it out someday.

I reccomend flunking them. Maybe it will motivate them or his/her parents. I have never understood why more kids are not held back? The school budgets probably do not encourage it.

I have a very similar student (college though). Didn't show up much, listened to ipod during class, and expected me to help him make up all the missed assignments at the very last minute.

Failed him...

and it felt fucking great.

I would also recommend failing him. Or quit wasting resources on the chump all together and help him find a job at 7-11.

"... the world needs ditch diggers..."

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I reccomend flunking them. Maybe it will motivate them or his/her parents. I have never understood why more kids are not held back? The school budgets probably do not encourage it.

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These do end up flunking. My class at least. Parents surprisingly don't care. Since I teach juniors and seniors in high school the kids are pretty much who they are and parents are rarely involved at all.

I used to work in an alternative high school. I think some of these kids would be better suited in that type of school. Unfortunately, it's okay for us to have kids failining, but it's not okay to send them to a school that's better for them. That affects our budget b/c our budget is based on enrollment.

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Originally Posted by Cono Este

I have never understood why more kids are not held back? The school budgets probably do not encourage it.

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If it didn't happen in the US before, without our bullshit No Child Left Behind system, it sure as hell won't happen now. If you think school budgeting is bad in Canada...

There are no useless kids. Ever. There are children that are just not little round pegs made to fit into the systems little round holes. The system is failing these children. I know this from first hand experience.I married a beautiful girl with 2 kids one of whom fitted your description to a tee. Every school day was a trauma.Suspensions, superintendent hearings you name it, we had it. With a lot of work, he is turned out a-ok. Will he ever be a cube monkey? I doubt it. Is that a bad thing? No. There are ways of making a great living with out ever setting foot in an office environment.

Don't know what this kids marks (or smarts) might be like, but that sounds like me in HS and I ended up w/ a 6 figure job making multi million dollar decisions.
The problem was that school bored me to tears. I love learning, but the education system didn't work for me. I only had one teacher in 3 years of hs that figured it out and pushed me, maybe your "useless" kid just needs to be challenged?
Or, maybe he just needs to be directed into the trades rather than academia.

The big brick box just doesn't work for everyone. Unfortunately our education system lacks the $$ and the freedom to show more imagination and find ways to engage a higher percentage of students. You can't have an effective 21st century educational program using 19th century instructional models.

And what does the White House give us to rectify the situation? Another horseshit program with a name that is 180 degrees opposite from its real effect. No Child Left Behind is all about testing and blame not about true educational reform.

Even the most apparently useless kids probably make decent pet food.

You are a very bad Roo! ;)

Actually, I can relate to the whole "one size does not fit all" concept brought up by mrw. I'm fairly certain I was (am) an undiagnosed ADHD kid. Not everyone learns the same way.

And yes, more power to him if he can find a living outside the cube! Someone here was recently reporting back about being a TA on an ecological research foray into S. America. Now that's some chit I'd like to be doing!

Thing is, you do need to buckle down and do some learning to do that type of outdoor work. And even in "alternative" learning scenarios some degree of self-discipline and self-control must be expected of the kids. Otherwise, it's grab a shovel and make a ditch.

Sprite

I like my cat, she is very dumb, but nice warm and furry.



some kids are just bad, like some bike ideas are bad, some music is bad, and so on. Thats OK, not everything can be above average...
Plus ditch diggers and pet food ideas are great too.

The problem is... nobody spanks these brats anymore.
Give me a nun with a ruler to slap across the wrist. You'd turn off the ipod after that.

:)

There are definitely useless kids, but it's the fault of their parents' useless genes or useless child-rearing. But there are definitely useless kids, and there is only so much educators can do to mitigate what's being (wrongly) done to them at home.
Some kids will learn regardless of how the teacher teaches, some won't learn no matter how the teacher teaches, and the rest fall somewhere in between.

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Originally Posted by mrw

There are no useless kids. Ever. There are children that are just not little round pegs made to fit into the systems little round holes. The system is failing these children. I know this from first hand experience.I married a beautiful girl with 2 kids one of whom fitted your description to a tee. Every school day was a trauma.Suspensions, superintendent hearings you name it, we had it. With a lot of work, he is turned out a-ok. Will he ever be a cube monkey? I doubt it. Is that a bad thing? No. There are ways of making a great living with out ever setting foot in an office environment.

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I think the key part in your post is "with a lot of work". Unless the parents are involved and monitoring the situation, it's going to be really difficult for a teacher to make a difference on his/her own. And why should the teacher havee to penalize the other, harder working kids in class to try and do so?

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Originally Posted by bklyntrayc

The problem is... nobody spanks these brats anymore.
Give me a nun with a ruler to slap across the wrist. You'd turn off the ipod after that.

:)

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Hahahah! Were you a Catholic School survivor too? 12 years of it right here! They taught me all the terrible things I needed to know to impress my friends in college. :)

In the 1st grade, Sister Helen told me I was a bad girl because she caught me writing w/ my left hand a few times. She said that only the devil's minions would do that and she would not tolerate that in her classroom.

She also loved to swing at us with the ruler (our heads, our hands...whichever parts we didn't move out of the way fast enough).

Once my friend brought Sister Helen some fresh lilacs she had picked from her garden at home and Sister Helen just opened up the window and tossed them out saying they would be a "distraction" and give everyone allergies.
:nonono2:

And she was really weird about how she handled kids having "accidents." There was this one little girl Rosie that basically couldn't take the pressure so she would either puke or wet her pants like clockwork right before lunch every day. So Sister Helen would go right to the little supply closet in the corner (after thoroughly berating the girl and making her go change in the coat closet) and she would pull out a spray can of mint-scented deodorizing spray saying how bad Rosie made everything smell (poor kid!). Every kid would be huffin' that stuff after she sprayed it...I will say it smelled pretty good!

Anyway, Sister H must have been really huffin' it every day when we went home and left her alone in the classroom b/c I heard that a few years later they literally had to lock her away in a padded room. There was a lot of anger there...

Sprite

I agree that kids need to be held back more often then they are. But with the current idea that everyone is a winner and no one should fail or feel like a failure it just doesn't happen. This can all get tied back into the current idea in America, that nothing that you do is your fault, its always someone elses fault. Its the same way in schools, if a kid is a never does their homework, pays attention, etc, its not their fault its the teachers fault or the schools, or the systems. This is complete crap. I can realate to no being pushed in school and just floating through some classes, but I never just blew shit off. Saying that its not hard enough so I am not going to do it is total crap. Some kids are just raised poorly and then let themselves get even worse. I am in no way totally blaming the parents, but bad parenting doesn;t help, everyone has control over themselves, how they act, how they live, their values. As for directing kids towards a trade rather than being a doctor or lawyer, oh no you can't do that because that "belittles them" my dad was told that by one of the school counselors after he talke to one of his students about going to Wyo Tech rather than going to a traditional college. Keep in mind that he teaches shop classes, and cad classes. He was told that his job as an educator is to "help kids meet their full potential and not let them fall short by becoming a mechanic, or house builder person." So long story short the school system no longer believes that the world need ditch diggers, just doctors, lawyers, and engineers, I guess the engineers will creat robots to dig the ditches or something.

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Originally Posted by bklyntrayc

The problem is... nobody spanks these brats anymore.
Give me a nun with a ruler to slap across the wrist. You'd turn off the ipod after that.

:)

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AGREED! Sister Mary Meany, Sister Martin Bruiser & Sister Marrine Jeanne is Mean scary me straight!

Attachment 13103

The total lack of disipline among today's youth is scary. Children need boundaries, getting anything and everything they want is not healthy. The worst kids I know are those who have the most (materially) and the most freedom to do as they please.

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Originally Posted by skiing-in-jackson

The worst kids I know are those who have the most (materially) and the most freedom to do as they please.

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yup, they're the ones who get bored and decide to see what it feels like to beat a homeless dude with a bat, or some other such nonsense.

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Originally Posted by PlayHarder

Don't know what this kids marks (or smarts) might be like, but that sounds like me in HS and I ended up w/ a 6 figure job making multi million dollar decisions.
The problem was that school bored me to tears. I love learning, but the education system didn't work for me. I only had one teacher in 3 years of hs that figured it out and pushed me, maybe your "useless" kid just needs to be challenged?
Or, maybe he just needs to be directed into the trades rather than academia.

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Ditto with me. Junior and senior years I had my schedule set up so I was out of school at 11:30, on the hill by 12:30, and skied until 9:00. Slept in first period and basically just got out of high school. It was so frickin' boring that all I wanted to do was get a job, work for ski money, and ski. That didn't stop me from being successful. I'm a much better worker than student. I was accepted in a state university but chose to go with a local community college instead. Not all kids are cut out for university education. As it turned out, I've 'self-taught' structural engineering, marketing, and finance and own my own manufacturing company that's doing great. School ain't all it's cracked up to be for some kids and yet, they seem to do just fine.

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Originally Posted by Cyber Cop

yup, they're the ones who get bored and decide to see what it feels like to beat a homeless dude with a bat, or some other such nonsense.

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Is that what happened to MD9?

I'll kick the ass of any bored, overentitled kid who beat MD with a baseball bat.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

Even the most apparently useless kids probably make decent pet food.

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mmm soylent green

I thought MD9 killed hobos. Or was it dentists?

I hate teachers who don't realize they're merely glorified babysitters. If I wanted your whiny assed opinion on my perfect kid I would come to the goddamn Parent/Teacher conference, douchebag! Now leave me alone, I'm too busy for this crap.

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Originally Posted by Tippster

I hate teachers who don't realize they're merely glorified babysitters. If I wanted your whiny assed opinion on my perfect kid I would come to the goddamn Parent/Teacher conference, douchebag! Now leave me alone, I'm too busy for this crap.

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Yeah! Don't you know we're solving the world's problems here at TGR??

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Originally Posted by mtnbikerskierchick

These do end up flunking. My class at least. Parents surprisingly don't care. Since I teach juniors and seniors in high school the kids are pretty much who they are and parents are rarely involved at all.

I used to work in an alternative high school. I think some of these kids would be better suited in that type of school. Unfortunately, it's okay for us to have kids failining, but it's not okay to send them to a school that's better for them. That affects our budget b/c our budget is based on enrollment.

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The school I work at is an Alternative setting geared towards trades rather than academics. The pace is slower and the material in the classes is not as difficult. Kids have all kinds of exceptions and differentiated instruction. There are essentially no deadlines and no homework. And this kid still can't get 'er done. I totally understand the square pegs in round holes but I mean, come on, when does this kid have to take some initiative and ownership of his own future. I mean really, you can't carry a pencil to class? You can't show up one day a week on time? Classes aren't that hard, there is help and resources around every corner, essentially the whole school is modified.
I also agree that moving a kid on to the next level without passing the previous level isn't working. If a kid can't read at a Grade 8 level, why move him to Grade 9 and expect him to read at a Grade 9 level? Is that not setting him up for failure? I guess psychologists would argue it would dimish his self-esteem and he would become bed wetter.
And if I call the parents of my students it's like I'm interrupting them and wasting their time. Some parents just don't care. I think they think I've got nothing better to do than to call and bug them.

he is exercising agency - the culturally confined ability to act. culutre places constraint on the freedom associated with action.

it is our culure that allows this behavior and thus it is our culture that is worthless. IMHO.