Sorry if I didn't get your paradigm I tried to get as many as possible.
Just wanted to get a quick barometer from a pretty liberal place.
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Sorry if I didn't get your paradigm I tried to get as many as possible.
Just wanted to get a quick barometer from a pretty liberal place.
"Dammin I'm trying to tell you about fucking my wife in the ass and you're asking all these personal questions."
Chapelle
Last election I voted my conscience, which I felt was the right thing to do. This time I'm not.
I'm voting for phUnk.
I will not vote. Only because I don't live in that country.
Lemme guess? Ralph Nader?Quote:
Originally posted by Skidawg
Last election I voted my conscience, which I felt was the right thing to do. This time I'm not.
Great idea, but look what we ended up with. So for all the 2000 Naderites that said that Gore and Bush were "all part of the same major party political machine" - I hope you fucking get your act together in '04 and get out the vote for whoever the democratic candidate is...
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040109/danziger.gif http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040107/matson.gif http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040109/conrad.gif
Someone needs to get their act together....
http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040108/locher.gif
I'll vote, I'll try to be positive. But the only positive words I can muster are TERM LIMIT
After much researh and deliberations I like Lieberman the best of anyone Dem or Repub. He would be tough on terror, is sensible about repealing tax cuts for only the truly rich, and has a pragmatic environmental record versus strict command-and-control style policies. Not sure how restrained he would be on new spending (though he does not have as many big $$$ proposals as others), but all the candidates suck in this area, including the current President.
cannot vote, i am not 18. but if i did i'd fall into the "anything but bush category".
disclaimer: i live in san francisco. there are 3 republicans in my school of 400. we almost elected a green party mayor. i am not a green party member. (though i'll show up at any party if its free :D).
Not a snowballs' chance in Hell..............Quote:
Originally posted by Mcwop
After much researh and deliberations I like Lieberman the best of anyone Dem or Repub. He would be tough on terror, is sensible about repealing tax cuts for only the truly rich, and has a pragmatic environmental record versus strict command-and-control style policies. Not sure how restrained he would be on new spending (though he does not have as many big $$$ proposals as others), but all the candidates suck in this area, including the current President.
Next Monday in Iowa will say a lot.
I don't think Dean will take it, but that won't hurt him much by itself. If Gephart doesn't take Iowa, he's ruined. The non-Dean-Dems are working pretty hard to deny him Iowa, NH, and SC. If he loses all 3 (no one will win more than one), he could be fucked.
I'd like to see Gephart win Iowa, Kerry win NH, and and Clark take SC. That would stir things up well.
In the end I think I'd be happy with a Clark or Kerry (and maybe Gephart) for Prez and Mosely-Braun as the running mate. Dean deserves thanks for making noise and getting people excited, but I don't think he can do the job right.
What I'd really like to see is Al Sharpton beating the shit out of Karl Rove in a cage match.
~ discuss
$50 on Sharpton. Takers?
McCain/Leiberman 04 (my impossible dream)
That woudl be and incredible duo for this country.
The only problem with those two are antigun.
Edited to add:
Meanwhile, in the real world...
The only two dems that stand a snowballs chance are Kerry and Clark. I like Clark except he is flip flopping and I read a fascist streak in him that is almost as big as Ashcroft. And Kerry (and Ghephardt) still stinks of failure from the midterm elections.
Bush is praying with all his heart that he gets to run against Dean because that would be no contest.
McCain Lieberman?
Come on -
I'm taking Powell/Lieberman :) Actually, depending I may be writing in Powell.
Looks like the shrubbies all have jobs and showed up at the end of the day :rolleyes: :) :D ;)
Can you explain? Dean is a financial conservative with a lot of appeal to moderate Republicans. He's been a Gov, has political experience and stuck to his principles in an initially unpopular anti-Iraq war stance.Quote:
Originally posted by Platinum Pete
Dean deserves thanks ... but I don't think he can do the job right.~ discuss
The rest of 'em seem like the same fucking old story to me and spineless to boot.
I'm in the "other" category. I will wait until 630 on election night and look at the results. If there is a chance of beating Bush, I might vote for the Democrat.
Otherwise, I might write in Wesley Clark, who I don't think will get the nomination, being too conservative for the Dems right now.
Dean is a class warrior and a trial lawyer. Not what Wallstreet GOPers want.
Dean may not want to run a deficit, but there aren't enough fiscal conservative GOPers who can stomach Deans extremely liberal social policy agenda to make a misquito shit's worth of difference.
Furthermore, Deans total lack of military experience is yet another weakpoint in this security oriented time.
Dean only real support will come from the hardcore left. This makes him easy to beat and this is why Bush is praying to run against him.
Sorry Buster, as a moderate (neither Republican nor Democrat), I don't think Dean would be the man. The republicans are salivating over the possibility that he would get the nomination.Quote:
Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Can you explain? Dean is a financial conservative with a lot of appeal to moderate Republicans. He's been a Gov, has political experience and stuck to his principles in an initially unpopular anti-Iraq war stance.
The rest of 'em seem like the same fucking old story to me and spineless to boot.
But you're right, most of the democrats are pretty cookie-cutter.
I agree with grrrrr
For the record I have no party affiliation. I am a moderate centrist independent.
Riiiight... yet Bush being in the Texas Air Natl. Guard (and going AWOL for a year to work for his daddy's friend) during Vietnam is certainly causing me to rest easier. Cheney didn't serve, neither did Rumsfeld.... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
...Furthermore, Deans total lack of military experience is yet another weakpoint in this security oriented time...
The only thing worse than a hawk is a chickenhawk. Personally I couldn't give two shits if the president was in the military or not. It didn't make a whit of difference during the previous administration.
But he got a (consentual) blowjob. Bad, Bubba....bad!
I just read in the paper today that Dick Cheney now says he would support a Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages.
It repulses me that anyone is even considering amending the Constitution for something so ridiculous. Just one more reason for "anyone but Bush/Cheney" in my book.
Everything is going to Hell in a handbasket. Did you see this in today's papers?
Report: U.S. to push national air passenger database
02:31 PM PST on Monday, January 12, 2004
By RAY LANE / KING 5 News
SEATTLE - There’s another big potential big change the next time you head to the airport, and it comes with plenty of controversy.
Despite stiff resistance from airlines and privacy advocates, the U.S. government plans to push ahead this year with a vast computerized system to probe the backgrounds of all passengers boarding flights in the United States.
The Washington Post reports Monday that the government will compel airlines and airline reservation companies to hand over all passenger records for scrutiny by U.S. officials, creating a huge database on the backgrounds of every passenger before they board an aircraft.
The order could be issued as soon as next month.
Under the plan, all travelers passing through U.S. airports will be scored with a number and a color that ranks their perceived threat to the aircraft.
A red rating means a passengers would be prohibited from boarding. A yellow a passenger would get additional questioning at the security checkpoint, and a green rating paves the way for a standard trip through security.
Also factored into passengers' scores would be intelligence about certain routes and airports where there might be higher-rated concerns about security.
Another program that will introduced this year would speed frequent fliers through security lines in exchange for 'volunteering' personal information to the government.
The new security screening plan would be used with a system introduced last week to fingerprint and photograph millions of foreign visitors once they arrive in the U.S.
Has my vote.
NSFW...NSFW...NSFW
Smoked a J with Bernie Sanders while having a converstion with Dean in the early 90s at Reggae fest. Not that that (is there any other word you can use back to back correctly) has anything to do with Politics.
I say throw all those fuckers out and start over. Not because the Ds are much different than the Rs, simply because changing all the appointees ensures a lack of continuity. If you let the same group of fuck stains rule for too long, it can get even more dangerous.
And just in case you don't believe the AWOL charge...
Quote:
Records of Bush's Ala. Military Duty Can't Be Found
By Wayne Slater
Dallas Morning News
Monday, June 26, 2000; Page A06
AUSTIN –– After a thorough search of military records, George W. Bush's presidential campaign has failed to find any documents proving he reported for duty during an eight-month stint in Alabama with the Texas Air National Guard.
But a spokesman expressed confidence Saturday that inquiries will turn up former Guard members who can corroborate Bush's having been there.
"He specifically recalls pulling duty in Alabama," spokesman Dan Bartlett said of Bush. "He did his drills."
Bartlett said the Republican governor showed up "several" times while in Alabama, where he transferred from his Houston Guard unit in 1972 to work for the unsuccessful Senate campaign of Republican Winton Blount, a friend of Bush's father.
According to Bartlett, the governor could not recall specifically how many times he reported for duty during his months in Alabama.
After leaving Alabama in December 1972, Bush returned to Ellington Air Force Base near Houston, where he made up missed time in order to complete his obligation, said Bartlett.
Bush was a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard from May 1968 to October 1973, primarily flying F-102 fighter-interceptors.
The focus on Bush's service in the Guard--and the transfer to work on the Alabama political campaign--has raised questions over whether he received preferential treatment at a time when many young men were seeking to avoid the Vietnam War.
Both Bush and his father, who was then a U.S. representative from Houston, have denied that the younger Bush received special treatment.
Bartlett said Saturday that he reviewed a 200-page packet of documents last week from the National Guard's records repository in Denver. He said they largely duplicated documents the campaign already had obtained from Texas National Guard headquarters.
"What it shows is that Governor Bush met his annual requirements in order to fulfill his military obligation but doesn't show the portion of the training that took place in Alabama," he said.
While Bush was in Alabama, "most of his work was paperwork related," said Bartlett.
Campaigning Friday in Tuscaloosa, Ala., Bush was asked about his 1972 service in that state.
"I was there on a temporary assignment and fulfilled my weekends at one period of time," he said. "I made up some missed weekends."
"I can't remember what I did, but I wasn't flying because they didn't have the same airplanes. I fulfilled my obligations."
In May, retired Gen. William Turnipseed, the former commander of the Alabama Guard unit, said Bush did not report to him, although the young airman was required to do so. His orders, dated Sept. 15, 1972, said: "Lieutenant Bush should report to Lt. Col. William Turnipseed, DCO, to perform equivalent training."
"To my knowledge, he never showed up," Turnipseed said last month.
Bartlett said Bush recalls seeing then-Col. Turnipseed. The campaign aide suggested that because Bush was not a pilot, his commander might not remember him.
© 2000 The Washington Post Company
Most Americans from the heartland are not GOP Wallstreeters, even though the WallStreeters have the major spin. It remains to be seen how much sway the marketing boys will have.Quote:
Originally posted by SummitCo 1776
Dean is a class warrior and a trial lawyer. Not what Wallstreet GOPers want.
The nation is turning with regard to national health care and schools versus the miltary and tax cuts for the wealthy. I'm not sure that your opinion is shared the populace at large.Quote:
Dean may not want to run a deficit, but there aren't enough fiscal conservative GOPers who can stomach Deans extremely liberal social policy agenda to make a misquito shit's worth of difference.
That didn't hurt GeeDuhubya now did it?Quote:
Furthermore, Deans total lack of military experience is yet another weakpoint in this security oriented time.
At least you're consistent. BTW, what is the hardcore left?Quote:
Dean only real support will come from the hardcore left. This makes him easy to beat and this is why Bush is praying to run against him.
All I know is that where my parents live in Florida, the old school Republicans are talking up Dean on the golf course as not so bad. I just think it's cool that the guy took a very unpopular stance and stuck with it. That takes the kind of character I'm looking for, not the same old mealy mouthed crap that all the other candidates spew.
Calm down big guy. It's politics. You are 100% right but still 100% wrong. You are being logical, but the electorate as a whole doesn't see the picture like that unfortunately. As far as the electorate and the media are concerned:Quote:
Originally posted by Tippster
Riiiight... yet Bush being in the Texas Air Natl. Guard (and going AWOL for a year to work for his daddy's friend) during Vietnam is certainly causing me to rest easier. Cheney didn't serve, neither did Rumsfeld.... :rolleyes:
The only thing worse than a hawk is a chickenhawk. Personally I couldn't give two shits if the president was in the military or not. It didn't make a whit of difference during the previous administration.
1. Bush's chickenhawness (and that of many memebers of his admin) is old news plus bush spent 4 years as the highest ranking military officer int he chain of command.
2. Clinton and Bush were not campaigning in security minded times like this campgain is.
3. Bush's total inexperience when he took office is irrelevant now that he is an incumbant president running. He has more experience being president than any of the other candidates (for arguments sake at least). (incidently Clinton had zero foreign policy experience when he took office, as did bush... just clinton did things right with foreign relations... bush fixed that)
4. Dean is seen as the most neophytic of the big four dems (Dean, Clark, Kerry, and Ghephardt) in the minds of hte public and press.
Preface: I agree with the points you raise about Dean, I disagree with "The rest of 'em seem like the same fucking old story..."Quote:
Originally posted by Buster Highmen
Can you explain? Dean is a financial conservative with a lot of appeal to moderate Republicans. He's been a Gov, has political experience and stuck to his principles in an initially unpopular anti-Iraq war stance.
The rest of 'em seem like the same fucking old story to me and spineless to boot.
Let's start by defining "the job" as win the election or serve as President.
Win the election: he's too short (the taller candidate has won every presidential election), his temper will bite him in the ass, his "too liberal" label will be too hard to overcome in order to reach those moderate republicans who ought to vote for him, he's switching up his stories a lot (which Karl Rove will beat him with), most churches will nay him because of his Equal Rights (gay marriage) stance, and his experience as governor of a tiny state with a small economy and very few minorities is not that great.
Serve as President: His fiery temper and reluctance to compromise will kill everything he tries to put through congress. Same problem as Kucinich (who I love). I think Dean would be pretty good as president on ideas and issues, but should he get that far, he's set up to fail.
I do not see Clark or Kerry as "same old story" types.
Kerry, dispite being married to a woman with kajillions of dollars has dedicated himself to a life of public service. He's an expert on foreign policy, was key in ending the Vietnam war, key in breaking open Iran-Contra, knows how to get things done in congress, and (less tangibly) he's an independent thinker who knows how to collaborate.
Clark is definitely not your average Joe candidate. Amazing military history, brilliant mind, humble, heroic, but not the best political "performer." He knows how the Washington machine works (after getting burned by it under Clinton) and will have a first rate team to support him. I trust his instincts.
I'm glad to keep this conversation going if we can all keep it polite.
Why? Can you explain? Because the funny thing is that a lot of te so called exstream lefties don't like Dean because he's too conservative from a fiscal POV, so he caters to all that small government stuff so dear to what I knew as the Republican party.Quote:
Originally posted by grrrr
Sorry Buster, as a moderate (neither Republican nor Democrat), I don't think Dean would be the man.
I think that Bush and supporters are really scared of Dean because he's not playing by the usual party rules. He's pugnacious, wants a balanced budget, libertarian views on personal issues and wants national health care. Sounds like a great combo.
So aside from the cheap innuendo, what's really unappealing about Dean?
The point is that all the other candidates either have no political experience (Clark) or are members of the old Washington guard (Kerry, Kucinich, Gephardt, Lieberman). I'm really leery of the old guard, Gephardt blew it when majority leader and did not distinguish goals that what's left of the middle class can relate to.Quote:
Originally posted by Platinum Pete
Preface: I agree with the points you raise about Dean, I disagree with "The rest of 'em seem like the same fucking old story..."
In that regard they're the same old story. Every one of the supported the Iraq war because it was popular.
I have a really hard time with Clark. I do not trust the military mechanisms and he certainly has his naysayers as LB once dug up.Quote:
Let's start by defining "the job" as win the election or serve as President.
Win the election: he's too short (the taller candidate has won every presidential election), his temper will bite him in the ass, his "too liberal" label will be too hard to overcome in order to reach those moderate republicans who ought to vote for him, he's switching up his stories a lot (which Karl Rove will beat him with), most churches will nay him because of his Equal Rights (gay marriage) stance, and his experience as governor of a tiny state with a small economy and very few minorities is not that great.
Serve as President: His fiery temper and reluctance to compromise will kill everything he tries to put through congress. Same problem as Kucinich (who I love). I think Dean would be pretty good as president on ideas and issues, but should he get that far, he's set up to fail.
I do not see Clark or Kerry as "same old story" types.
Kerry, dispite being married to a woman with kajillions of dollars has dedicated himself to a life of public service. He's an expert on foreign policy, was key in ending the Vietnam war, key in breaking open Iran-Contra, knows how to get things done in congress, and (less tangibly) he's an independent thinker who knows how to collaborate.
Clark is definitely not your average Joe candidate. Amazing military history, brilliant mind, humble, heroic, but not the best political "performer." He knows how the Washington machine works (after getting burned by it under Clinton) and will have a first rate team to support him. I trust his instincts.
I'm glad to keep this conversation going if we can all keep it polite.
Kerry is in the old politico school with the Kennedys and the Senate. I'm being unfair in this regard, but I'm just really mistrustful of the Senate which nearly unanimously voted in the Patriot Act. I'm not forgetting that one.
Yeah, Dean is short and fiery, but I think his "liberal" tag is largely unwarranted and has been created by the opposition because they are very, very scared of him. If you look at his record in VT, there's a number of conservative things he did which offend the real liberals.
As far as being polite, you'll have to excuse me for not lambasting you with the usual "hey fucknose!!!"
I would like to see McCain, Lieberman, or Powell in any permutation. Pragmatic moderation is the key.Quote:
Originally posted by lemon boy
McCain Lieberman?
Come on -
I'm taking Powell/Lieberman :) Actually, depending I may be writing in Powell.
I really liked Powell until this admin and then he seemed like too much of a wuss... but then maybe he is going against his nature because he's knows its wise to temper the hotheads.Quote:
Originally posted by descender
I would like to see McCain, Lieberman, or Powell in any permutation. Pragmatic moderation is the key.
http://wizbangblog.com/archives/001435.php
I realize we're talking about politicians, but Dean's "convictions" can best be described as pandering to the anti-war left. there are numerous instances of him talking about the danger Saddam represented.
even numerous instances of him supporting Bush not Gore in the above link. things have apparently changed in that respect.
Calling Dean a class warrior is almost comical. He's the son of a wall streeter that grew up on the southern CT seaboard attending the toniest prep(St. Georges in Newport) and Yale( need I??). He hopped from the draft with a Doc's diagnosis for a back problem and then proceeded to spend the winter skiing in Aspen. a card well plaid in these parts. However, if we're going to be throwing stones about draft evasion or utilizing powerful daddies to get out of military service. Atleast Bush, went into the guard.
heh.Quote:
Originally posted by Yossarian
$50 on Sharpton. Takers?
HA!
HA HA.
Thought you were serious for a second, then I started laughing out loud.
heh.
Doesn't Cheney have a lesbian daughter??? If this is true, the man is seriously a fucked up person and just as hypocritical as Strom Thurmond...Quote:
Originally posted by The AD
I just read in the paper today that Dick Cheney now says he would support a Constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages.
It repulses me that anyone is even considering amending the Constitution for something so ridiculous. Just one more reason for "anyone but Bush/Cheney" in my book.
So people don't want to vote for Dean because the Republican-controlled mass media thinks he's "unelectable".
Did it ever occur to you that the reason Fox News, Clear Channel, and the rest of the major Bush campaign contributors are tarring Dean as "unelectable" is precisely because he's the candidate they're most scared of?
Hell, he's the only pro-gun Democrat, which means he won't automatically lose the South. Sounds way more electable to me just based on that alone.
The Iraq war was sold to Congress based on evidence and statements that Bush and his administration knew to be false -- a FELONY. Their case for war has been completely discredited, the dollar is plummeting, the economy is still in the tank, and it's not clear that the Republicans can hold together their unstable pyramid of lies and fear until November no matter how many bogus "Terror Alerts" they put the country on. So they'd love nothing more than a pantywaist like Lieberman to run against.
Dean scares them because he's been calling them on their bullshit and not backing down -- and because he's looking smarter and righter with each passing day.
Quote:
Originally posted by Spats
the economy is still in the tank
:confused: ummm, no. Unless you consider 3+ quarters of gain from DJIA, NASDAQ and the S&P 500 to be an economy that has yet to start it's upward pull.
edit: Also, I'm not voting because I'm not registered to vote. It's the electoral college's decision anyway. I'll register for local voting once I figure out where I'll be after university.
I'm surprised to see that there isn't an overwhelming round of support for Dean here! After all, he is a skier. ;)