BD Poles/whippet compatibility

I'm interested in getting a Whippet (ice axe, not dog) for certain situations where i don't want to carry a full axe, and I realize that means I have to get BD poles.

Question: Are the BD carbon poles compatible with the Whippets? A buddy suggested they are not, but he doesn't know for sure. He has the carbons and felt that there is a big difference in swing weight with the aluminums, so I'd prefer to go carbon if i can.

Has anyone used both? Any durability issues with their carbon poles? I did a quick check, and it actually looks like the BD carbon FLickLocks are cheaper than the aluminum ones (odd).

I've been a long-time LifeLink carbon pole user...and I always loved the adjustability (for skinning/changing pole length depending on the terrain) & low swing weight...but as any LL user knows, there are times when the poles stick and times when they suddenly "shorten". I take good care of my poles, service them, etc... but in certain environments (e.g., Denali) this happened more than others.

I have to confess that the BD FlickLock method for adjustment always seemed more bomber, so while I'm not excited about having to shell out $$ for new poles, it would be cool to get an improvement somewhere.

Thanks for any help!

The whippets now sold with bottom shaft, i.e, as a whole pole. Buy two.

Really? I was thinking of just buying one (didn't know if it'd ever really need 2) for saving the cost.

This would be, what, about $160 for a pair of whippets/full pole?

Are they carbon or aluminum lower?

Thanks!

I guess if it's sold as the whole pole, I could just use that pole with one of my LL's when I need it.

Atleast BD used to sell and whippet-upper-to-carbon-lower -adapter at bdel.com, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that yer friend got it wrong. As for the locking mechanism, well I use Grippon-poles that have the same system as BD (Flicklock) and have used numerous Leki-poles (the twist for locking-thing, I assume the LL has the same system) and those have always sucked (atleast after they were "broken in").

BD have apparently two different "carbon" poles.

One is with the a aluminium upper part, one is completely of carbonfibre.

I stupidly bought the alu+carbon as i tought it was the fullcarbon version...
The japanese texts might have confused me abit, and the fact that i got them for about 35€s...

But, at least the alu+carbon versions should be replable with the whippet.
I saw them selling separately, and in the confusing "manual" that came with the poles, there was a illustration to put the whippet in the pole.

For the fliplock i have nothing but good things to say.
Have had it in few poles and it is bomber.
My experiences with the "screw" thightening systems have allways been miserable,so i think you will like the fliplocks if you end up getting them.

And most of all, i find the BDs very good to ski with. Nice swing. Way better than my older 3 piece Giprons (wich manufactures BD and other brands in their factory) wich were compressible but a bit too heavy.

Just my .02 cents.

BD used to only sell the whippet upper. In the last year or so they switched to selling the whippet as a complete pole. (upper+lower). I ended up having to buy a set of 2 piece flick locks+the whippet pole. Dunno about buying 2, I think it would get too dangerous/confusing in a fall to have 2, esp if your used to self arresting with an ice axe. But, as it's not a full on ice axe 2 whippets would probably be better from a stopping standpoint. I noticed Coombs and company were using 2 whippets on the otterbody, but I would take the risk of a pick to the chest vs. the fall anyday in that situation...

I ski with two.

I have the 'whippet trek' uppers (ie, short, meant for three section poles) with the normal (two section pole) lowers. Greatly enhances the swing weight.

Whippets work great for skinning because you can put your hand on the pick to push, giving you several additional inches.

Two are also nice for climbing.

I've never impaled myself in 2+ years of skiing with them, and it's not for lack of falls. Just keep the whippet pointed away from yer body.

http://students.washington.edu/pbeli...ble/pics/7.jpg

They are also THE SHIT for scratching your head on a hot, sweaty day.

you might want to check out the Grivel Condor self-arrest grip attachment

grivel might have what you are looking for:

http://www.grivel.com/Products/Detta...ozze.asp?ID=23
http://www.grivel.com/Products/Detta...ozze.asp?ID=24

don't ask me what the difference is between the 2. nor do i have any experience with them.

edit: I guess I'm a really slow poster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sfotex

I think it would get too dangerous/confusing in a fall to have 2, esp if your used to self arresting with an ice axe

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if you are skiing where you need a whippet, putting the pick in quick is important. If you are worried about sticking yourself, buy some of these
http://a1072.g.akamai.net/f/1072/206...dia/458882.jpg
Nice to have even if you aren't, I've poked more than one whole in stuff with shrap points floating around car/appartment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cj001f

if you are skiing where you need a whippet, putting the pick in quick is important. If you are worried about sticking yourself, buy some of these
Nice to have even if you aren't, I've poked more than one whole in stuff with shrap points floating around car/appartment.

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I ski with one whippet, but that's just b/c I think with two I think I would drop the left one and focus on getting the right one planted with all my body weight (alpine ice axe reaction) , but again that's just me. I could see for some people it would be more natural to be able to use both hands.

Whip it?

http://www.spookshop.com/images/Mens...es/whip_it.jpg

I have both a Grivel Condor and a BDEL Whippet, and use them both. The Condor if anything steep might possibly be encountered, and the Whippet + Condor if I know the objective requires it. The Whippet is marginally better for self-arrest, though I wouldn't count on it if I was sliding much faster than walking speed. Practicing self-arrest with this slightly different setup and anticipating are important, as always - as you well know, the window between sliding for life and stopping yourself is pretty damn small, even with an ice axe.

The Condor is like the old Ramer, is more comfortable than the Whippet, and can occasionally be useful when the Whippet isn't. One in each hand and crampons on your feet and you're a hard-steep-snow couloir climbing maniac. I'll sometimes still bring an ice axe, though less and less often these days - Andrew McLean doesn't even bother with an ice axe most of the time and just goes with the Whippet-in-each-hand (though he's kinda biased, having invented the things). Swing weight on either Whippet or Condor is heavy but you get used to it quickly. I have fallen on my Whippet once soon after I first got it, and it hurt, but didn't cause major damage.

To address the original question, as others have mentioned, BD used to have an adaptor for the carbon-fiber lowers, but uncertain if this holds for the most recent batch. I imagine it does, though.

UAN- I was gonna suggest the condor also but got beat to the punch.

It's been occasionally derided here but I just picked up a LL Claw b/c I for one really dislike BD poles and really like my LL ones. Clearly it isn't an ice axe replacement but it seems solid enough for its intended purpose. Plus it doesn't change the weight hardly at all. Inexpensive too. (haven't used it yet though).

http://www.life-link.com/images/llaccessories/claw.gif

Thank you, all, for the good info.

It seems that:
1) The Whippet is now available as a full pole (though I assume but am not certain that this is an aluminum lower);
2) The Claw is an option for LL users, although it may lack one appealing feature for me, namely...
3) The Whippet pick is removable in the field. This seems cool as it is something I could leave in my pack and only attach wehn needed (e.g., when the climb or descent is hairy).
4) An adaptor is available for carbon fiber BD lowers. Hoever, this means that one would need to buy 1 or 2 whippets, plus a set of adaptors, plus a set of BD carbon poles. This is a pretty significant investment. Perhaps BD would sell the carbon lowers, only. Hm.

Decisions, decisions!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by upallnight

Thank you, all, for the good info.

It seems that:
1) The Whippet is now available as a full pole (though I assume but am not certain that this is an aluminum lower);
2) The Claw is an option for LL users, although it may lack one appealing feature for me, namely...
3) The Whippet pick is removable in the field. This seems cool as it is something I could leave in my pack and only attach wehn needed (e.g., when the climb or descent is hairy).
4) An adaptor is available for carbon fiber BD lowers. Hoever, this means that one would need to buy 1 or 2 whippets, plus a set of adaptors, plus a set of BD carbon poles. This is a pretty significant investment. Perhaps BD would sell the carbon lowers, only. Hm.

Decisions, decisions!

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http://www.bdel.com/gear/spare_parts_snow.php

the BD pole selection and naming conventions are confusing at best - i would recommend calling them if possible and explaining what you want to do.

for example, there are two different types of carbon-fiber poles - with different diameter carbon-fiber bottom sections. The carbon-fiber adapter piece is meant only for mating the skinny carbon fiber bottoms with the older (whippet-compatible) uppers.

having tried this myself in the past - i didn't have great luck with these adapters. they give a snug fit at the flicklock, but I found that if you had much of the lower nested inside the upper (ie. using the poles short), that they would rattle around inside there and it was very annoying.

if you really want to use the whippet - my advice would be to go with a set of old-style all-alu poles for use with the whippet, and keep a lighter carbon-fiber pair for all your other uses.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schnappi

http://www.bdel.com/gear/spare_parts_snow.php

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Nice....they do sell the carbon lowers for $15. Not bad. Now, I just have to figure out if they'll still sell the whippet upper only.

Probably looking at $160 for 2 full whippets + 2 adaptors + $30 for the carbon lowers = yikes!

If they can sell the whippet upper only, that could save some $$ (offset by buying BD baskets).

Thanks for the info. This might take a call to BD next week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by soul_skier

i have a one whippet, and for things like boot-packing up tuckermans where it can be sketchy as hell, i love it, i have fallen on it, just hurt like a sob, didn't puncture anything

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Well, page 5 of the Whippet user guide clearly states:

"When climbing or hiking with the pick attached, try to avoid selfevisceration
should you wipe out."

Who wrote that????? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by doctapow

having tried this myself in the past - i didn't have great luck with these adapters. they give a snug fit at the flicklock, but I found that if you had much of the lower nested inside the upper (ie. using the poles short), that they would rattle around inside there and it was very annoying.

if you really want to use the whippet - my advice would be to go with a set of old-style all-alu poles for use with the whippet, and keep a lighter carbon-fiber pair for all your other uses.

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good advice- now that is really helpful. i was hoping that the whippet + carbon lower combo could be an everyday thing (leaving the picks in my pack until necessary), but maybe that is not the best idea.

@hemas : I don't know why I keep buying Leki polls, everyone has sucked :( Nothing makes you confident like a collapsing pole on a jump turn...

I was hopeful for the Leki Extreme (only one twist lock system) and I've had to repair it twice, and my right-hand pole is forever loosening. Drives me wild.

edg

I'm under the impression that the BD system works the best....my LL's are OK but far from perfect (more often freezing up and refusing to adjust, rather than outright collapsing).

I wish I had gone for a Flicklock system. Maybe next season, if I have any money left over :)

edg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by edg

I wish I had gone for a Flicklock system. Maybe next season, if I have any money left over :)

edg

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Well I bought my Giprons for 15 €, what's that like 3 beers at the pub...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hemas

Well I bought my Giprons for 15 €, what's that like 3 beers at the pub...

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Oh, good call. But 3 whole beers ;)

edg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by upallnight

3) The Whippet pick is removable in the field. This seems cool as it is something I could leave in my pack and only attach wehn needed (e.g., when the climb or descent is hairy).

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Where's your spirit of adventure, just make something. ;)

http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_57770.jpg

http://www.biglines.com/photosv2/200...ines_57771.jpg

Legal Disclaimer: Respondant makes no claims as to the fitness of the above referenced product for any use foreseable or intended use and the astute reader will note that respondant has moved on to a commercially available product although said homejobber has spent a lot of time kicking around in a pack and provided faithful service for a number of years (12?)