At what point is it too fat?

Alrighty, I have been looking at all these skis lately that are 120-150 underfoot and am enticed by the idea of having my skis float like a snowboard. But at what point does it become too fat? I know that if you are skiing deep, untracked, heli accessed terrain in alaska, a fat ski is practical to about the point you look like you are riding a horse. But with the 130s and even 140s, what is it like skiing crud? Seems like you would break your ankles on every turn.

All of these new fat skis from major companies (volkl, line, atomic, elan, k2) seem so impractical. I mean, two or three times a year max... until lunch. I was in a ski shop the other day and was looking at the new big daddys and the old sumo, and I asked the owner how they were. He replied that they were pretty much too fat for anything but deep snow.

What do the maggots think?

If this is already done, please tell me so I can delete this.

i dont agree about 'too fat for anything but the deepest'. one nice aspect of a big fat ski is that it can make a marginal day ski great. If the ski floats well enough to make a few inches ski bottomless then it can be useful for a much wider range of conditions.

as long as they can handle the cut up stuff well too.

and besides, if you are skiing west si-ide, you should only be skiing pow anyways.

if you can feel your lats working when you spread the cheeks, its too fat...

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Originally Posted by fez

and besides, if you are skiing west si-ide, you should only be skiing pow anyways.

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Word fez. Bridger doesn't get a ton of snow though. I am going to edit anything but the deepest into "pretty deep" snow. Do you really think that 125 under will make ok (soft snow, 1-3 inches) conditions great?

When you are thinking, damn, I am deep in side, this broad is tight and she says...

You're not in yet :tdo13:

When she starts crying for her mommy everyTIME you put it in.

For anything but the deepest days of the years, and i mean 5+ feet of untracked that you sink to the bottom of, 100-110 is more then enough. An even on those deep deep days, it just means more face shots.

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Originally Posted by Catbert

Word fez. Bridger doesn't get a ton of snow though. I am going to edit anything but the deepest into "pretty deep" snow. Do you really think that 125 under will make ok (soft snow, 1-3 inches) conditions great?

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Are you smoking some montucky cranK? "Bridger doesn't get a ton of snow"
HA!!!
You must be trying to ski Big Rock! Good, stay there.

I don't no about 125mm under foot but I get a fuck load of face shots and bottomless turns droppin' the knee on my 100mm.

My pow skis are 105mm and there have been many days this year I wish I was on something wider. I demoed the Line prophets (130) in spring conditions and it did feel like my ankles were going to break on each turn, but they still worked fine on hardpack. I think 130 is fine for pow days, even into the afternoon. Then switch to your 100ish ski for the day after.

no way man, I ski bridger... in fact, almost 40 days so far this year. This has been a great year though. I could see taking a ski with over 120 underfoot out maybe five or six times this year until about lunch. On the other pow days, 100ish would be much more manageable. If I was constantly doing ridgehikes, this may be a different story. Last year though, maybe 3?

And Big sky gets fifty more than us a year... but that still doesnt mean it is any good.

Hear about the 1-3 feet forecasted this week?

I havent skied the new generation of REALLY fat skis. <scratches chin, flashback music>since back when my Big Stix 106 first came out and were about the fattest thing you could get</flashback music> The first season or so some of my favorite days on those things were the 4-6" days they really made the skiing more fun. Dust on crust was a little less crusty.

Though for the 100" storm at BB, I really wished they were about 10cm longer and at least 1cm wider throughout.

In 1992 or 93 I started skiing on the Rossignol DP 110 because my pals snowboarded. People made fun of me in the lift line and a lot of skiers turned their noses up. I switched to boarding in 1995 full time and 4 years ago started sharing time 50/50 ski to board. The deeper the snow the more likely I'm on a board

imo super fat skis take a lot of the challenge and athleticism from the sport. While snowboarding powder is not difficult I like the dynamics better than super fat skis.

I'm looking to get on some Sanouk's for next year to check that out. I've never skiied deep powder on a soft fattie..

Fatness is useful when you're skiing IN the snow more than ON it. For me the 130 works great, I really prefer having the option to go sideways like a snowboarder. Plus I'd rather be floating enough to stay manueverable than to be so deep I'm getting face shots. Skis that are between 95 and 115 underfoot are more between'er type skis in my opinion because narrower skis also have real advantages for skiing crud, slush, anything more compacted than fresh snow.

As for the upper limit, I think 130 works fine but I wouldn't mind having something longer than the Prophet for days when I'm not skiing mainly trees. A 200cm ski that is 125-130 would be what I'd like to try, a real water ski type ski.

Catbert- I like to lap the ridge and you know how deep it is up there. Didn't mean to be a dick but fatter is better even with 3-5. Big sky blows.

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Originally Posted by Catbert

Alrighty, I have been looking at all these skis lately that are 120-150 underfoot and am enticed by the idea of having my skis float like a snowboard. But at what point does it become too fat? I know that if you are skiing deep, untracked, heli accessed terrain in alaska, a fat ski is practical to about the point you look like you are riding a horse. But with the 130s and even 140s, what is it like skiing crud? Seems like you would break your ankles on every turn.

All of these new fat skis from major companies (volkl, line, atomic, elan, k2) seem so impractical. I mean, two or three times a year max... until lunch. I was in a ski shop the other day and was looking at the new big daddys and the old sumo, and I asked the owner how they were. He replied that they were pretty much too fat for anything but deep snow.

What do the maggots think?

If this is already done, please tell me so I can delete this.

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yeah sure this subject comes up all the time.

that ski shop you refer to is waaaaay out of the loop. most sierra skiers i know have a pair of 100mm+ skis that are their go-to skis for most days. 4 inches, 8 inches, 30 inches of fresh, whatever.

my most recent fat ski purchase (big daddy) was just a few weeks ago but they've already seen many days of use. when i get around to getting the lotus 120 or 138, i'm expecting i'll use 'em 30 - 40 days a year, i.e. about 50% of the time i ski.

You'd use a ski thats more than 120mm in four inches as opposed to the big daddys?

And yeah, I would use a 106 underfoot ski as my everyday (gotama), but at bridger bump, fat skis dont like the deeper bumps. SO my daily is 92 underfoot. I just dont see the practicality in a ski over 120 being used almost daily. Mogul performance seems miserable.

When you go to bed at 2 with a 10 and wake up at 10 with a 2.

That's too fat.

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Originally Posted by fez

as long as they can handle the cut up stuff well too.

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In my opinion this is where fat skis really shine. All that width just pummels the chunks you encounter. It's like skiing with a steamroller. I'd love a pair of 130s to slay the crud, and this is coming from someone who skis 105s most every day.

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Originally Posted by Arty50

In my opinion this is where fat skis really shine. All that width just pummels the chunks you encounter. It's like skiing with a steamroller. I'd love a pair of 130s to slay the crud, and this is coming from someone who skis 105s most every day.

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depends on the skis, I think they need some beef in the shovel to drive through crud. my m103s kill crud. but my big stix 106 are way too soft in the shovel and deflect pretty badly once it gets cut up. otoh, the big stix are better in untracked pow. The m103 is my everyday ski, but the 106s come out for deeper days.

i never got a chance to ski my big daddies before i blew my knee so i dont really know how those compare.

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Originally Posted by 4matic

imo super fat skis take a lot of the challenge and athleticism from the sport.

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no way! It's just means you can charge faster and make bigger turns.

Plastic boots and releasable fixed-heel bindings take alot of the challenge and athleticism from the sport. That's why I still ski leather boots with bear trap bindings. Come on...

Once you go fat, you never go back. Unless it's been > 1 week without snow, I ski wide boards all the time. You can carve turns on hardpack with all but the fattest of skis - just takes a little more effort.

I've used my Spatulas about 30% of the time this year - some days epic dumps, other days just a few inches on top of crud. I NEVER REGRETTED BRINGING THEM OUT. You'd be surprised how versatile the fatties are. Go big.

I've been skiing the 189 Pontoons a fair amount over the past month and at 5'10", 150# I could definitely see them as a 200 and fatter... they're sooooo easy to ski that why not? At the current dimensions they're fucking rad and all, but... :FIREdevil
Skinning with them sucks, but going downhill with them makes up for it.

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Originally Posted by fez

i dont agree about 'too fat for anything but the deepest'. one nice aspect of a big fat ski is that it can make a marginal day ski great. If the ski floats well enough to make a few inches ski bottomless then it can be useful for a much wider range of conditions.

as long as they can handle the cut up stuff well too.

and besides, if you are skiing west si-ide, you should only be skiing pow anyways.

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WORD. My Prophets are my everyday ski. The Exploders & V-Pros just don't get a look in anymore. I live in Verbier, famous for it bump runs 2 days after snowfall. You NEED 130mm underfoot for moguls. (only skied for access)

How big can I go? When I was skiing my Exploders I thought 100-110 would be enough, now I'm not sure. It's not how big can I go, it's how big can they make something that can still be stood on and made to go downhill. There must be a maximum though cause I don't think I can ski with my feet wider than my hips. Whatever. I'm in. Give me the largeness.

Time for Devil's Advocate. I think much over 100mm is too much. 105-106 ok if you realy charge hard. But in anything variable over 100mm isn't particularily clever. I have just taken the binders off my Powder Plusses - They are going into permanet storage. I get just as much float out of Bros at 15mm narrower - probably because they are less than hlf the weight. But on hardpack of variable they are 10x easier / better to ski than the wider plank. On a really deep day I have some wierd 162mm (Tip width) skis for playing with and have access to some Phantoms if I am feeling silly.

Here in Chamonix most of the hard chargers ski 97-105 underfoot, there is 1 or 2 on sanooks or sumos most of the time, but they revert to exploders when things harden up. The local big name brands top out at 97 (Dynastar)and 100 (Rossignol) anyway.

If I just skied Mt Baker my ideas may be different however.

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico

Once you go fat, you never go back. Unless it's been > 1 week without snow, I ski wide boards all the time. You can carve turns on hardpack with all but the fattest of skis - just takes a little more effort.

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I've been thinking about this regarding hardpack. AlpineDad expressed the ingenious unit of "approximate float index" in this thread, http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...te+float+index

In terms of an analogous "waist index" for groomers, my 6 year old at 52 lbs by last month was railing big turns (in good snow) on a 66mm waisted ski. She doesn't know any different, so she's never complained about their being slow edge-to-edge or about having to ski a wider stance to tip them over. The dimensions of a ski that could work for me at twice her height and 3.5 x her weight are pretty interesting, assuming the torsional flex issues for that size ski could be worked out, etc.

IMO, if the ski is over 120mm, it needs to have something "funky" going on like the 138, pontoon, spatula, or they are just too wide (prophet, fatypus)

I have this rule. You make two "hang loose" gestures, one with each hand and the put your thumbs together with your pinkies pointed out. You then get a posterior view of the target and if her ass won't fit in the distance between your pinkies, she's too fat.

The alcohol clause-for every six beers you drink, you get to use the short distance of the six pack holder (the shortest side), between your thumbs to open up the field a little. Now lets say you drink between 12 to 18 beers, you should be prepared to wake up with the 2 Warthog was talking about.

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Originally Posted by Idris

Time for Devil's Advocate. I think much over 100mm is too much. 105-106 ok if you realy charge hard. But in anything variable over 100mm isn't particularily clever. I have just taken the binders off my Powder Plusses - They are going into permanet storage. I get just as much float out of Bros at 15mm narrower - probably because they are less than hlf the weight. But on hardpack of variable they are 10x easier / better to ski than the wider plank. On a really deep day I have some wierd 162mm (Tip width) skis for playing with and have access to some Phantoms if I am feeling silly.

Here in Chamonix most of the hard chargers ski 97-105 underfoot, there is 1 or 2 on sanooks or sumos most of the time, but they revert to exploders when things harden up. The local big name brands top out at 97 (Dynastar)and 100 (Rossignol) anyway.

If I just skied Mt Baker my ideas may be different however.

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Ok, so I was used to skiing k2 launchers (at 90) and dynastar legend pros (at 97), when I got my Lotus 120's the other day. I'd say I would choose the Lotus'es any day with a reasonable amount of soft snow. Meaning you could get at least 5 cm of the ski into the sno, maybe 10. I would include chopped windpacked in that category. I would chose the LP's if I knew I would hit ice somewhere along the way (especially steep ice as in colouirs) or if I knew there would be a lot of groomer access skiing and if the soft snow we were accessing weren't really that deep.

Thing is, these wide boards makes skiing more fun in the conditions I like the most. The question is if you are willing to sacrifice some on the access to it.

My 2 cents, or a prayer for my sick grandma;)

Why did it take so long for super fat skis to catch on? They've been around since the late 80's (Powder plus, Axioms). Seems like it's a phenomenon of the last two or three years.

I found that 430lbs was WAY to fat for me.
I'm 1/2 the man I use to be and faster, too.
:p
My skinniest ski is now Pimp Daddy, 99mm waist.
AT- '06 Big Daddy's
Everyday schralpin- Original Big Daddy's, read SUPER FAST.
Fattest, Line Prophet 130!!
Mammoth last Sat, 1' new. Whacked out pretty early but top was good late.
NO problem, anywhere, ALL day on Prophets.

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Originally Posted by ctarmchair

AlpineDad expressed the ingenious unit of "approximate float index" in this thread, http://www.tetongravity.com/forums/s...te+float+index

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One man's ingenious is another man's fool's errand. But thanks.

I got my Bros in December, intending them to compliment my Solly Scream 8s. Since then, I've got about half a day on the Sollys, a day or two on the Kastle CarveMachine GSes I picked up from Coreshot mid-winter, and 20 on the Bros. The Bros have just turned out to be incredibly versatile.

The only times I've been on the Bros and really wished I were on something else were either when we hadn't had fresh in a while and I was tempted to break out the GSes, or when we had 3' of light blower Utah pow and I still hit bottom. So I think my next addition to the quiver will be an uberfat -- used Spats, maybe, or Lotus 138s or 'Toons if I hit the lottery or prices drop at the end of next season. I'd expect that there will be many days when I could be happy with either the Bros or uberfats, and it'll be a toss-up.

But for me, perhaps the more pertinent question is, at what point is it too fat unless you go for an unconventional shape?

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Originally Posted by Conundrum

I have this rule. You make two "hang loose" gestures, one with each hand and the put your thumbs together with your pinkies pointed out. You then get a posterior view of the target and if her ass won't fit in the distance between your pinkies, she's too fat.

The alcohol clause-for every six beers you drink, you get to use the short distance of the six pack holder (the shortest side), between your thumbs to open up the field a little. Now lets say you drink between 12 to 18 beers, you should be prepared to wake up with the 2 Warthog was talking about.

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that's f'n hilarious...I forgot about that rule. Plenty of ladies in Boise fit into that category and plenty don't. Kinda fit's right in there with Sammy Hagar thing, index finger and thumb together

I'm agreeing with Idris. Over 115, it needs an unconventional shape. Having skied the Fatypus earlier this year, I found it reinforced this theory...

The measurements Idris quotes work well because they allow for the control in the varying condition you get in High Alpine Enviroments, like Cham - soft snow, rotten snow, windbuff, hardpack, ice, the whole kit and kaboodle.

How fat can the skis go? Probably not much more. It boils down to personal preferance. Some guys like skinny chicks. Some guys like fat chicks. And some guys like in betweeners. Personally, I like my fat Elizabeth. She makes me hard all day long. In all conditions. Plus, her graphics are like silky , smooth panties. HHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM!!:D

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Originally Posted by BanditXXX

Plus, her graphics are like silky , smooth panties. HHHHHHMMMMMMMMMM!!:D

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You sure? Chances are they are like white cotton briefs. BUT MAYBE they're like satin, maybe like silk, maybe a thong, maybe they're are something crazy you don't even know about yet.

Fat skis with a turn radius number just like narow ones... The Sanouk for example with a 45 meter radius probably only works becasue the thing is so soft.

I'm thinking the bigger that radius number the softer the ski has to get. A big plank with no sidecut and no flex is going to smear but never carve. I want my fat (125-135cm underfoot) skis to carve the pow and am wondering how reverse sidecut is going to help that happen, but I don't want to buy Lotus 138's just to find out. Maybe I'll get to try some out tomorrow.