Avy at Sierra?

I don't know why this made news, but apparently a slide in the Huckelberry Canyon area. Sierra operates 5 gates to this steeper terrain which can be very nice. Lots of unprepared folks go into this area as well. Anyone know the real story on what slid? The picture looks like a sluff.

http://images.ibsys.com/2006/0308/7822705_320X240.jpg
TWIN BRIDGES, Calif. -- An avalanche has occurred near the Sierra At Tahoe ski resort.

According to the El Dorado County Sheriff's Department, the avalanche happened about 1:00 p.m. in Huckleberry Canyon, just outside the resort area. It's an area often used by cross-country skiers.

There were reports that people may have beeen trapped in the avalanche, but KCRA 3's Dann Shively in LiveCopter 3 reported that everyone known to be in the area has been accounted for.

Stay with KCRA 3 and KCRA.com for more details on this developing story.

Not even human triggered?


That's kind of a southwest face isn't it?

Hope they dont close the gates. We were planning on going there soon to drop some rocks.

There are some really nice features back in there that should be fun with the deep coverage. Interesting how the sheriff said it is accessed by "cross-country skiers". There are some mad rock drops and cliff drops if you know where to go.

Most of the canyon is North to Northwest facing, but gates 1, 2 and 3 enter from an East facing ridge (off East About run). There is no south exposure. This area stays cold and deep.

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Originally Posted by AKA

Hope they dont close the gates. We were planning on going there soon to drop some rocks.

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Natural release + sketch snowpack + major stormcycle + "hoping they don't close the gates" = lab rat

Don't be a buffoon...

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Natural release + sketch snowpack + major stormcycle + "hoping they don't close the gates" = lab rat

Don't be a buffoon...

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staggerlee=gay.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Cirquerider

There are some really nice features back in there that should be fun with the deep coverage. Interesting how the sheriff said it is accessed by "cross-country skiers". There are some mad rock drops and cliff drops if you know where to go.

Most of the canyon is North to Northwest facing, but gates 1, 2 and 3 enter from an East facing ridge (off East About run). There is no south exposure. This area stays cold and deep.

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The only time I've been there, it was snowing too hard to tell what was what. Thanks for the info. I don't know that place at all.

I'm guessing this is still on that rain layer from last week then?

Literally every charge hole had a slide accompanying it at alpine last saturday The rain followed by light snow issue was pretty obvious.

I've got no plans to be at sierra or anything but I will be hiking somewhere and it's always good to know what's lettin loose.

Thanks

Photo-link I see looks like Search & Rescue in a NON-slide area. But dont really trust the whole snowpack. Area Specific. More Details!!!

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Originally Posted by Cirquerider

It's an area often used by cross-country skiers.

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I've heard that cliff drops, switch skating, and deep pow are getting more popular with the nordic crowd.

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Originally Posted by bio-smear

I've heard that cliff drops, switch skating, and deep pow are getting more popular with the nordic crowd.

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I don't know about the RGJ but "cross country skiers" gets used every time any backcountry skier gets caught in something up here.

6" loose slide only 75 yards long sounds more like slough to me (especially considering the light density of this snow). It was a bit fascinating to see the acceleration of the snow as we skied along side a few of these high speed "releases" this morning. Nothing deeper than 6" to 12" was budging where we were, if it was I wouldn't have been where we were. It only sloughed on the steep 45 degrees-ish areas too. The gates at Sierra are cool, but the big hits and steep stuff bottoms out really fast. The long consistent trees outside of Gates 1-3 are really fun if you know how to hit them right. Definitely gapers out there. I heard they are going to leave them open permanently and disclaimer the hell out of them a la the Heave.

You'd have a blast in a few of those spots on the right days out there, AKA, despite what StutterLee says.

Sierra doesn't get much credibility here. Probably not a real good idea to spread the word about what lies just east of the boundaries.:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Cirquerider

Sierra doesn't get much credibility here. Probably not a real good idea to spread the word about what lies just east of the boundaries.:rolleyes:

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Unfortunately I don't think it'll matter with the crowds they've been pulling this year. But if it helps, the terrain really does suck.

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Originally Posted by AKA

staggerlee=gay.:rolleyes:

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Charge it AKA. We haven't handed out a Darwin Award in a while. Young and dumb...

what a joke. lil bit o sluff and some ninny cries avalanche.:rolleyes:

Yep. What a bunch of hooey...all this avalanche stuff is for posers. Have I told you how big my unit is?

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Yep. What a bunch of hooey...all this avalanche stuff is for posers. Have I told you how big my unit is?

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You own Volkl 6-stars don't you. There's no shame in it. Well, maybe there is a little but its ok.

Kush caused a bigger slide at kirkwood yesterday, call the news.:nonono2:

Nope. Dynastar Big Maxs. They match my fag bag.:tongue:

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Originally Posted by gimpy

what a joke. lil bit o sluff and some ninny cries avalanche.:rolleyes:

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oh, you are so right

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

A moderate avy forecast trending towards low 48 hours after a storm in the Sierra = sketch snowpack?

Anyways. Jim Bitner = good people and great WFR teacher. Nice to see him name checked.

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From what I saw this morning in the rose area I would definitely call certain areas sketch, at least more so than normal.

I saw hard slabs forming and releasing with little effort. A dog released a 20' x 20' slab.

I saw some easy slab-form releases yesterday too. I got taken out with my own slough at Rose in the Chutes. It cleaned my tips out. Strange feeling.

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

A moderate avy forecast trending towards low 48 hours after a storm in the Sierra = sketch snowpack?

Anyways. Jim Bitner = good people and great WFR teacher. Nice to see him name checked.

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Look Walter, err Ali, avalanche advisories are a great starting point for deciding where and when to travel. But that is all they are, a starting point. Not sure if you have been following the weather in the Sierras for the past few weeks or if you get out much, but there is plenty of potential for something nasty to happen, skier triggered or not. I have lost two good friends, seasoned mountaineers, over the years. I just think it is kind of juvenile for folks to respond to reports on avy activity with replies like "wow dude, I hope they didn't close the gate to that area...I really wanted to huck some cliffs back there..." I love charging just as much as the next guy...but I also want to live to ski another day...AND I want my bros to live and ski another day. These reports may sound trivial, but certainly should be another data point in deciding where, when, and what to ski...That's my $.02.

Stagger, you're preaching to the choir.... Most people on this board are quite educated in observing snowpack conditions and stability...

McP, not preaching to the choir NOR to the board...take it in context amigo. On a side note, I disagree with your assessment that most people on this board understand snowpack...there are clearly a few that know how to travel safely, but there are plenty of "lab rats" among us. What's the basis for your opinion? Number of posts? Biggest huck? Biggest quiver? Skis Bros? All that shit don't mean jack when it comes to stayin' alive...

The area in question has frequent small sluffs but does not have a reputation to slide big, and there are few terrain traps. Slope angles are 40+ degrees and usually just don't hold large slabs for long. The gentler slope aspects have heavy tree cover, but steep upper slopes and chutes are devoid of trees. The biggest hazard is sudden blind rock and cliff drops, and slides could carry you over them. The hazards are real enough. For comparison, it is 4.4 miles from Waterhouse Peak. Huckelberry Canyon has the same aspects and pitch, is 600 feet lower and drops 2000 vertical in two discinct segments separated by a large flat hanging valley.

FYI, this Saturday is the Echo to Kirkwood Race and Tour. It looks like starting from the top of Sierra and touring due south to Brian Meadows with a nice desent, rather than a 1300 foot climb is 3-miles shorter and all downhill. With a gentle 1000 foot ascent to Little Round Top before decending to Kirkwood, its an much easier route. I doubt I will miss a powder day to do this tour, but I've been meaning to do it some time.

A lot of participants park at Kirkwood, so expect parking to be bad at KW this Saturday http://www.ednsp.org/racetour.htm

Channel 2 News Reno ran this as their headline story tonight on the 11:00 news. They even had someone LIVE at Sierra at Tahoe reporting about it. I can't believe it. Slow news day.

Yea, the local news gave this some major coverage. From the aerial pictures I saw, it looked pretty insignificant. But putting a little fear into the minds of folks who don't experience the snowpack changes more often than once a weekend (at best) is not a bad thing. I personally don't know what the snowpack is like all over the state of California, much less the North Shore of Tahoe. But I have a good feel for what's going on in the 15 mile radius around Meyers. What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning, which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst). The deeper snow pack felt solid, and that's the biggest factor to me after small non wind loaded storms.

You guys can produce all the reports, codes, symbols, abbreviations and terminology you want; half the folks don't know how to read them, or what they mean anyways. The experience with the snowpack & terrain (and pit observations are just a part of that picture) is what matters most in my book when assessing avy danger. And the Central Sierra Avy forecast is the best public wide general tool available for b.c. skiers. I think they've nailed it pretty well this year too.

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Originally Posted by Walter Sobchak

True enough. But my $.02 ... when I'm trying to preach safety and brotherhood I generally don't call people lab rats, buffoons, dumb, posers, etc. I call them douchebags. Or for the ladies, cunty. It just works.

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I am still a JONG as it relates to this board (less than some unknown threshold of posts - 100??). Still haven't dialed in the TGR taxonomy and social norms. I wouldn't have known that "douchebag" would have been more "Bro-like" than "lab rat".

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Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

Yea, the local news gave this some major coverage. From the aerial pictures I saw, it looked pretty insignificant. But putting a little fear into the minds of folks who don't experience the snowpack changes more often than once a weekend (at best) is not a bad thing. I personally don't know what the snowpack is like all over the state of California, much less the North Shore of Tahoe. But I have a good feel for what's going on in the 15 mile radius around Meyers. What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning, which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst). The deeper snow pack felt solid, and that's the biggest factor to me after small non wind loaded storms.

You guys can produce all the reports, codes, symbols, abbreviations and terminology you want; half the folks don't know how to read them, or what they mean anyways. The experience with the snowpack & terrain (and pit observations are just a part of that picture) is what matters most in my book when assessing avy danger. And the Central Sierra Avy forecast is the best public wide general tool available for b.c. skiers. I think they've nailed it pretty well this year too.

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i like this guy.

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Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

What I saw at Sierra was the same thing gimpy and I produced yesterday morning

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Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

Heard about the slide from the kwood patrollers who were out in full force yesterday 'protecting' the boundaries using this slide as reason #1. They were stationed at the traverse out towards west shore and at the end of the high T. Pretty weak that they comment how you came prepared with the necessary gear, but they can't let you go because some unprepared people will want to follow.

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

I am still a JONG as it relates to this board (less than some unknown threshold of posts - 100??). Still haven't dialed in the TGR taxonomy and social norms. I wouldn't have known that "douchebag" would have been more "Bro-like" than "lab rat".

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man, your wasting your time w/ da posers on this board that obviously live at the 'rents home and haven't weaned from their mommy's tit yet. forget about it and let 'em be the next number.

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Originally Posted by mmcpheet

Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

Heard about the slide from the kwood patrollers who were out in full force yesterday 'protecting' the boundaries using this slide as reason #1. They were stationed at the traverse out towards west shore and at the end of the high T. Pretty weak that they comment how you came prepared with the necessary gear, but they can't let you go because some unprepared people will want to follow.

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I could see West Shore building up a pretty good load of sluff (or worse) in current conditions, and California Col...wouldn't recommend going there today. I'm hoping to see some better bonding over the weekend, but with the cold temps, I'm not counting on it.

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Originally Posted by Cirquerider

I could see West Shore building up a pretty good load of sluff (or worse) in current conditions, and California Col...wouldn't recommend going there today. I'm hoping to see some better bonding over the weekend, but with the cold temps, I'm not counting on it.

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I agree with you that there was potential, but would have liked to take a closer look and make that call myself. From what I observed on Sat. and yesterday, it appears that the top layer of snow is sluffing and not running as a cohesive unit. Sluffs and slabs are different beasts as SC pointed out:

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Originally Posted by Sierra Cement

which could have done nothing more than drag you down the slope a ways and leave you in 12" of still loose enough snow to get yourself out of (at worst).

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I've never been a fan of having decisions made for me in the interest of the collective. Probably why I don't ride the lifts much anymore.

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Originally Posted by mmcpheet

Did you 2 hit up flagpole? Saw some tracks down hollywood and thought it was probably a DP mission.

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yup:biggrin:



bottom line here is do what you feel comfortable w/ based on whatever info you can get at the time. i'm still :rolleyes: w/ this whole incident and how much attention it got. it was a 6" crown non-slab avy for chrissakes!!!! in this age of constant dickhead litigation, i'm sure kwood was just playing it safe. because if someone did go and bury themselves ob the day after a "widely reported serious avalanche at a resort", the media and people like stagger lee would ask how they could be so irresponsible and then open the door for lawsuits. still sucks though for you guys who were knowledgable and prepared to hit the gates. just more resort bullshit:tongue: .

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Originally Posted by gimpy

yup:biggrin:



bottom line here is do what you feel comfortable w/ based on whatever info you can get at the time. i'm still :rolleyes: w/ this whole incident and how much attention it got. it was a 6" crown non-slab avy for chrissakes!!!! in this age of constant dickhead litigation, i'm sure kwood was just playing it safe. because if someone did go and bury themselves ob the day after a "widely reported serious avalanche at a resort", the media and people like stagger lee would ask how they could be so irresponsible and then open the door for lawsuits. still sucks though for you guys who were knowledgable and prepared to hit the gates. just more resort bullshit:tongue: .

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What a dick..."people like Stagger Lee"...First off, Stagger Lee is a "bad man"...Second of all, I am ALL about personal responsibility. I could easily see one of you tools injuring yourself and then blaming it on the resort for not preventing you from accessing the BC. Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Second of all, I am ALL about personal responsibility. I could easily see one of you tools injuring yourself and then blaming it on the resort for not preventing you from accessing the BC. Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.

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Not a particularly effective way of trying to educate people about the risks.

A) AKA said, "I hope they don't close the boundaries" Sounds to me like he was hoping for exactly what you stated, that people making mistakes out of bounds wouldn't cause the resorts to close their boundaries. i.e. making people take personal responsibility.

B) Gimpy et al earn their fair share of turns, and unlike some other folks I've been out with, Gimpy has always made what appear to me to be solid and safe choices.

C) Crown, was it a crown created from a slab, or was it just the upper terminus of the area that sloughed? I haven't seen those answers posted.

D) People who preach from a high horse and get offensive while doing it are doing the population who do know the bc and can provide very good education a disservice. (no, I don't count myself among those people, I'm only an amature who plays it really cautiously).

FYI: Gimpy is out on dawn patrol 4-5 days a week. He’ll crush you on the uphill and downhill. Half the people on this thread have skied together a lot, yet you are talking mad shit about people you don't know.

In other news, 137 are dead in an avalanche in Norway. 137 wild reindeer that is.

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Originally Posted by StaggerLee

Let me tell you - I am so impressed with you...you're living dangerously...bad to the bone...real hardcore...BTW, if it wasn't a slab, how did it have a crown?? In the end, do it like real men...earn your turns or shut the f*$k up.

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Yo StaggerLee, if you're not too much of a bad ass for us you could actually join in early some morning and observe some local snowpack. Believe it or not, the "reported" slide occurred on the same day, only a couple of miles from where gimpy and I were skiing that morning. And we were on our own, no patrol, well earned turns, in the b.c. We did see some pretty hefty sloughing exactly where we expected it, and it may have even appeared to have a crown. I don't know, I didn't check, cause it was just slough. I skied the bed layer of the path for a few turns, and it was still soft and good, not a scoured slab path. I think we were as qualified as anyone to make the call on the status of that day's snowpack. From the LiveCopter 3 pictures I saw all over the news, it appeared to be the same flavor, same size scoop as the ones at Sierra. But dude, you are damn convincing from your keyboard in who know's what dry corner of this country. Rock On!