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Im' doing the walk through for our new house tomorrow morning, and I'm not sure if my contractor buddy is coming with me. Does anyone have suggestions on general things to look for? We're buying a brand new house, so it isn't as involved as buying one used, and the builder's inspector is going to be there... but I want to have my bases covered. Can we have them fix something in the backyard too (part of the yard is lower than its supposed to be), or is it just isolated to the house?
depends on where in the process you are. if you have an accepted offer and this is the final walkthrough, then you are checking to make sure the property is in the same condition as when the offer was accepted.
if a contract did not mention the low part of the yard when signed, then it may be your issue. there is a section in all real estate contracts for exceptions, exclusions, contingincies, etc....
your realtor should be able to help you...or least point you to someone that can.
make sure you get a home inspection...they do new construction also. they'll crawl under the house and make sure all the pipes got hooked up and stuff like that. it'll be worth the investment.
We've already signed the contract, been accepted for the loan, and are doing the final walkthrough. The yard thing isn't a big deal, its just some low spots along the fence, I was just wondering if its something I can have them do instead of us.
Brand new house?
Check to see if it has any character.
Bring a pad of paper and a camera to list/document the thousand little minor things that might be wrong with the construction. If it's new construction, there will be a lot of "little" things....baseboard gaps, small not fully finished taped areas, sloppy paint, loose door hardware, missing electrical plates, loose plumbing hardware, blah, blah, blah. Check EVERYTHING... turn on every light switch, every faucet, flush every toilet, turn on the dishwasher and run a cycle, open every door, fans, heat,....you get the point.
New construction tends to have a ton of little things wrong with it that, although minor, will drive you nuts quickly if it doesn't get fixed right away. Builders tend to tell you that "don't worry, we'll fix that before you move in" and not get around to doing it without you constantly pressuring them. They might tell you "oh, that's typical" if you see something off, but they have a strict standard to which they must adhere when building. Everthing must be up to par and fall within these tolerances. Make sure it is all documented in a "punch list" so you have a leg to stand on when they dodge your phone calls and don't show up to fix it when they said they would. Also, get the builder and his inspector to sign and acknowlege your "punch list" so it proves they recognized these issues at the walk through.
Just my $.02....I'm in construction and I know how contractors lag...Also, my Pop is currently getting dodged by a builder to come back and fix all the "little" things of his new house...hope this helps.
Nicest Geronimo post, EVER. Methinks someone forgot to log out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo
Awesome info Sean. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanyob
Just a few things off the top of my head:
-Window Caulking (interior and exterior)
-Weatherstripping/door sweep/threshold at exterior doors
-Is the high and low roof venting free and clear - no insulation blockage?
-Is the grade a minimum of 6" below the sole plate?
-Are there door stops at each door?
-Is the sink / vanity sealed?
-Do any tiled shower/bathtub shelves slope towards the tub? If flat - not goo.
-Are there weep holes at the bottom course of mansonry?
-Does the flashiing lap properly at corners?
-Does metal flashing have drip edges.
Threre are so many more things I look for when doing a punch list, but these are just a few things I though up quickly. Maybe some of these things are too involved for you. Why are you not have a home inspector take a look?
You might want to inquire about radon levels in the area......radon remediation can set you back around 2000$. Builders sometimes don't include radon remediation even if they know it is there.
Did you have a formal inspection already? Did you do this directly with builder's/listing broker and not have your own? (if so WHY? WHY? Why?)
What you need is a professional inspector (hopefully thats already happened) or at a minimum someone who really knows construction and can spot those differences between code and actual build - because with most of this new stuff they slap it together ruffshod and miss many things that should have been done or should have been done right.
Seanyob has many good points - this is stuff that a pro can help you look for.
Net/Net is the walk through is your final chance to object to the condition of the place - so ANYTHING unsatisfactory should be documented and formally requested to be fixed before you close. Even trash to be removed, minor painting touch up, common fence to be erected, etc - should be put down on paper even if they've promised to finish it later.
A good friend of mine closes houses for a very large builder weekly. There is almost nothing that they will not do to close a house, so be a jackass and tell them you need everything fixed or your walking away from the close. I like the lists above. The pressure is on the builder to get your money, to pay his bankers, etx.
I had a radon system installed post contract at the builders cost of around $1200 along with plenty of other small stuff done that would have been a pita and $$$ or fruitlessly trying to get the builder to honor their supposed warranty, and compared to what my friend and the company he works for do weekly to get houses closed, that is small, small potatos. They have plenty of profit to play with. Like I said, they'll do almost anything - believe it.
One thing I must add and I didn't stress enough.....GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING!!! If it's not on paper, it never happened. I can't tell you how many times as a construction newbie I got FUCKED by not having deals/agreements/promises in writing. It sucks, but trust no one's word....people forget quickly, either on purpose or not, and in a court of law, it's your word against theirs (Keep in mind large GC's typically have an arsenal of attorneys). The construction industry, like many others, has become so litigous as of late it's disgusting....It's ALWAYS A RULE to have it on paper no matter how negligible you think it is.
Also, with the housing boom around the country, the faster builders put up houses, the quicker they make money and more of it. In construction, corners are cut constantly (I know from first hand experience, I work for a large commercial/public works subcontractor). Any timesaving measures positively affect the bottom line. You'd be amazed at how many corners are cut, even with critical issues such as fire/life safety. You really wouldn't be able to spot issues like these, as smitchell33 pointed out, without the help of a Professional Inspector (and one that YOU hired). Not to bag on the Contractors/Builders, but these are the realities. Most contractors/subcontractors are highly respectable but, as in any industry, there's always a bad apple. Also know that there are many safeguards in effect that protect buyers/owners from poor workmanship and they are typically addressed during construction.
On the slight chance that you might get a "lemon", an Professional Inspector is worth any $ you pay 100,000 times over. Buying a house is no small step, as I am sure you know very well....If you haven't hired an Inspector, do so now.
Sorry if I'm rambling. As you may notice, skiing is not the only thing I am passionate about.
Ok, back to perving huck pics and talking shit....
Great point...Quote:
Originally Posted by uglymoney
A few more things from personal experience -
Check doors - make sure they swing evenly and close without gaps - interior and exterior!
Same for all cabinets - kitchen, bath, etc.
Same for all windows - will they open smoothly without binding or racking.
If you have seismic holdowns (bolts in the foundation that tie the mudsill plate to the slab/foundation) - check to make sure that they actually pass through the mudsill or bottom plate. When I inspected my garage on final - found almost 1/3 of the bolts were coming up along side of the plate rather than through the center. If we had an earthquake - the garage wall could have easily moved off the foundation if the holdowns were not fixed.
Bottom line - get them to FIX IT NOW - before the division sells out and your builder heads out of town.
Just curious, but what types of fire/life safety items do you see GCs cut corners on.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanyob
Sean is right on. Housing contractors are the worst.
GET IT ALL IN WRITING AND HAVE EVERYONE THERE SIGN IT. The saying 'If it's not it writing, it never happened.' applies to much more than just construction. They have your money. They have the power. The only thing you have is a written contract that says they will do the punchlist work. Make that sucker as long as possible; this is your only chance to get house repairs for free. Come back a second day if you are not done or happy, just make sure to tell the contractor that the list is not complete and you are not accepting the house until the list is finished. Sign nothing until you are happy.
They will leave some obvious things to fill a short easy list, so you'll get tired and think 'That's good enough.' It's not. Make a HUGE deal about the low spots in your backyard. Earthwork is big $$$ to go back and fix, espically after it rains and you flood your yard out. Check the contract for the grading requirements on the yard. There is a specification. Double check all of the window seals, if you're glass between panes fogs, that's big $ to fix. They may try to tell you 'That's how it came from the factory.' Bullshit. They owe you a sealed window, no if's and's or but's. All this and everything everyone else said.
Good Luck,
A Contractor.
I've seen my drywall subs do it, or at least try.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Below Zero
one example (seen this one often and it can work in various configurations)...
A regular non-rated metal stud wall with gyp board has a vertical steel column in it's way. This steel column needs two layers of gypsum board furred around it to provide a two hour rating. The non-rated wall intersects this column wrap construction. Instead of furring and wrapping the column individually and sealing it, the hanger put two layers on the perimeter of the furring and back to one layer on the non rated wall. Basically not fully encasing the steel column and leaving a void at the intersection between the two different wall types for fire to spread.
Hopefully, my description is clear....a sketch works much better for
explanation.
Other ones....
-At fire extinguisher cabinets, or other recesses in two hour rated wall construction, the hanger only puts one layer, instead of two at the back of the recess.
-Not using fire rated Lowry pads behind electrical boxes in fire-rated wall construction
-Not fully filling deck flutes with cementious fireproofing above steel beams at decking.
Just a few off the top of my head.
Here's one that blew me away...
I was doing a TI job in a highrise downtown SF. It was two full floor buildouts....Once the demo guys were finished pulling down the ceilings, we noticed that all of the core shaftwalls had no head of wall firestopping!! A fire could have broken out on one of these floors and spread easily to the rest of the building through the shafts. God only knows if the shafts at the other floors were firestopped...I fucking hope so! I pointed it out to the Building Engineer and he about shat his pants right there. We fixed those floors but I don't know the outcome of the others....SCARY...
Wow, great explanation! Very detailed. I am a construction manager with an architecture firm and have to deal with fireproofing issues all the time. It's good to see you as a GC, seem to have a good knowledge of fireproofing. Some GCs I deal with are not as up on it as they should be.
I've seen the semi-recessed fire extinguisher cabinet thing come up all the time. We do an individual detail for that now all all our projects.
Also, I used to work for a firm that did alot of TI work and you would see so many issues in older buildings that would have to be addressed when it came to fireproofing issues, especially fireblocking.
People do alot of touch up work before they sell. You have to look closely for water damage. cracks etc, that could have been freshly painted. Make sure you get your own inspector. Sometimes the realtor, or seller will already have that lined up, dont accept that.
Yes, another good point about water damage, but this house is brand new.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cono Este
Thanks....Actually, I'm an Estimator for a subcontractor. I estimate metal stud framing (int & ext), drywall/taping, lath & plaster, EIFS, fireproofing, and painting.....
Regarding older buildings, yeah, they suck. Can o' worms....
How's the market for Estimators in CO?? I've about had it with the company I work for and a move might be in order (as long as I'm close to good skiing, I'm stoked). Also, the thought of owning a home in and around the Gay Area is fucking ridiculous, even with a good salary. CO is MUCH more affordable from what I hear...thoughts?
Sorry LLyod Xmas and others if this is way off topic....
Well, I'm not really sure. The construction industry is starting to pick up again, so I'm sure it is relatively good. I'll ask some of the GCs I deal with on Tuesday and PM you.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanyob
thanks amigo...appreciate it
New construction? If the builders in your area are like they are here, quality will not be job #1.
I'll add to the doors comments made by others: be sure the check that the gap between door and frame is uniform, should be around 1/8", if it's less, there's a good chance it'll end up rubbing as the house settles, etc.
Also, watch your ceilings and other edges for wavyness caused by poor framing. Around here houses are built with chain saws, there's narry a skillsaw, chop saw (cept for triming) or any other "precision" saw. The "solution" to a stud that's bowing out cuz it was cut too long is to notch it half way through (with the chainsaw) and let the excess stress compress it down.
Be sure to check your foundation and basement floor for cracking as well. Hairline cracks are fairly common (but should be noted in writing for good measure), however if there's a gap of any kind, definately note it, good chance it'll leak water, and grow bigger.
Be sure to get up in the attic, check that the insulation was blowen in uniformly, and make sure the amount of insulation in place meets your area's standard. This is a common short-cut taken here. (Another common short-cut is to skip installing the eve/soffit vents, which can only lead to ice daming and condensation problems)
I hope you've been checking in on the building as it was progressing. Now that you're at final walk-through stage, a lot of potential problems are covered up by drywall, insulation, etc.
Good luck.
I couldn't check on the building as it was progressing, since we bought one of the inventory homes at a great price. Thanks for all the suggestions guys, I've made notes and plan on using all of this advice.
Ugh... They definately sound like the mass-builders we have around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Christmas
They actually put wording in the purchase agreement that prohibits the buyer from visiting except on certain dates, and only the buyer is allowed on the property on those dates. In other words, relatives "in the trades", home inspectors, etc can't come in until the builder no longer owns the property. Very shady, that's for sure.
Lloyd,
Yer all good mang....just stick to your guns. Remember uglymoney's point's, they want to get paid so they can pay the bank. Also, pay particular attention to DJSapp's post, all points are dead on. If you're not satisfied, don't sign it. Take an extra day, they've got time AND money. It's not going to be a deal breaker on the house purchase....you're just making sure that they are doing THEIR job.
At this point, the house is your's, and this is the last chance to get it right and for FREE (actually, you are getting what you paid for). The wifey might think your being obtuse, but in the long run, she'll thank you for it.
And as far as feeling if your house is shoddy or shabby, fear not. As I stated earlier, most contractors are very respectable....they are in business to make money and you don't make money by putting out a shitty product. Also, remember that if you have shoddy workmanship, that's what insurance is for (both your's and the builder's). I'm sure you're getting a great deal for a great product.
Good luck tomorrow mang!! Don't let them bully you or blow you off. The quality of THEIR work has a direct correlation to the future of THEIR business. Congratulations on purchasing a new home! Is this your first? I have to admit, I'm jealous...it's been something that myself and the Lady have been dreaming about, only the market here is outta reach. Eventually, we'll have ours.... Feel free to PM me with any questions if you got 'em .
Sean
edit: feels good to help a maggot out if it's even just words.....Also, just got my copies of Stimulus and Echo....wish I could've done more but that's how it goes...I'm sure Wink, Inc. knows the talent he's got.
Thanks Sean... this stuff is perfect for me. It is our first house, and I'm not too worried about it (knock on wood). Shaggy, the reason we couldn't check on it during construction was because we didn't buy it until about 3-4 wks ago, when it was already done. They did allow us to go into the house at any point since we put down the deposit, so they weren't hiding anything.
The one saving grace is that we have a year's warranty on everything, so if something doesn't come thru well, we are going to have an inspector come through in 11 months and check it all out, and get it fixed then too.
Again, thanks guys, especially Sean and a few others. I've made notes and thought about things I didn't even know of. I'm sure it'll help me out. (and in case any of you CO mags were wondering, its a DR Horton house in Vista Ridge out in Erie).
Yup- Just read the warranty through. It should cover just about everything. I work with Electricians. They have a year and a day mentality. Basically, as long as their work lasts a year and a day, they are set. Most likely your builder has a similar warranty. Check with your state laws, though. Some states will require them to back up a lot more of their workmanship for a much longer period. Of course, they will not spell this out to you. You have to do your homework. But, things like foundations, piers, structural stuff, all should be covered for at least 5-10 years. At least that is what it is here in Florida. Of course, getting some of these guys to respond may take a lawyer, etc. Better to have a cert. home inspection (not affiliated with the GC) done right now. The $100-200 spent now, could save you some large headaches later. Good luck. Owning a home is a great feeling. Mine was built in 1938, though. So I had different issues than you are going through.
Oh- almost forgot. Look at some of the home warranty deals that are out there, as well. For $300-$400 you can protect all your major appliances, electrical system, HVAC, plumbing, etc. It really is a good deal, once the builder's warranty is done. I have found it invaluable, living in a 68 year old house.
Thanks Warthog. As for the yr warranty, I was only referring to certain things. Others like the foundation and structural stuff has 10 yrs on it.