I'm not dead yet.

This maggot is ok. Sorry for not checking in earlier, returning calls, all that. Didn't really want to talk about it earlier. Still don't. Embarasement is a factor, and not wanting to recall the episode.

Long story short, got buried in a tree well.

Here is how it happened. We are skiing off the ridge line on the far right lift at snowbasin, first run off the day.

The snow was really really wierd. I was so stoked to ski over the head blower pow, and what I found was the wettest mangiest crud imaginable.

I was literally one turn behind iskibc, when a snow snake (damn little scrub brush) grabbed my ski and pitched me forward. In a matter of seconds I was sliding head first into the biggest damn tree well I've ever seen.

The branches of this tree were pretty low to the snow, I slid right under them, skis stuck in the branches without releasing, and my head was buried by all the snow I took with me.

--So, not being able to breathe, see, or move I had a good 20-30 seconds of absolute panic. I was bending my body in ways I never thought possible. I did not think off anything, but animal terror took over.

I still don't know how I broke free. My gloves which are gore tex and leather have the fingers clawed out of them, I think I kept clawing at the tree trunk and just clawed up till my head was free.

I then yanked on my skis till they released, clawed slowly out of the pit, and just shook.

Made my way down the mountain, very slowly, stumbled to the truck and called MD9.

--I tried to cowboy up, but just didn't have it in me. I went home.

Thoughts??? I should have had a beacon, for body recovery, few more seconds and I would have passed out and they would have found me in the spring.

Phone, I left it in the truck, didn't want to be bothered on a pow day. I wish I had it, I could have called md9 sooner.


Did I suck, did I bring this on myself???? I don't know how I could have done anything different to cause me not to fall in the tree well.

I don't blame the maggots I was with AT ALL. Not much they could have done.



---I am going to go skiin again, but I missed this entire storm cycle, just to freaked out.

oh, and it is still dumping in SLC

Just reading about you gasping and clawing in the tree well has given me a mini-panic attack. :( I'm really glad you're okay dude...that's one hell of an experience!
Sprite

Glad yer back in the game bro...we've all been there or will be at one point. Keep yer chin up.

Glad you're ok. From the stories around here an Avalung is sounding better and better.

http://www.tetongravity.com/ubb/icons/icon14.gif

I'm happy to hear you're OK, dude.

Fred,
Whydontcha blow off work on Wed., get back on the horse, and come up to Basin for round two...promises to be a much kinder gentler snow.

Next trip out, remember, cell phone for emergencies, scotch for self administered last rights.

Glad to hear you are all right, time to buy some PM Gear kevlar indestructo gloves.

Glad to hear of your escape. With Splat's tale and yours, just goes to show the importance of watching out for one another.

Day after Christmas, my buddies and I traversed to the far edge of Strawberry Fields at Sugar Bowl. Untracked from all the previous storms and heavily treed. When we started, a boarder in our group was stumpng behind us and we thought he was right behind us as we started down. When we got to the bottom, he was nowhere in sight. After about ten minutes, we all started to freak a bit, thinking injury or treewell.

Turns out he bagged the hike and didn't tell us and was waiting at the Crow's Nest lift. Anyway, we should have confirmed where he was before heading down.

Frozen...i wouldn't stress too much about missing the "current storm cycle"....there's a doozy headed your way.

Damn frozen, that's scary stuff. Looks like a new cycle is gonna hit you guys anyways. Get back out there soon or the doubt and fear will just fester. Good luck man.

Froz,

Glad you're alright homey!!

Have a drink, forget about it and we'll see ya at Alta before the weeks out; you know we don't have any of that shrub brush (ever) at Alta that always seems to be present at the Basin.

Come git sum!!

Seriously glad you're okay, brother.

I think the most important thing to remember is that if you are skiing with friends, look out for them. Buster makes me whoop about every 15 seconds or so to make sure I'm behind him somewhere. A friend of mine was skiing with us yesterday and as much as I hate to throw on the brakes on a steep untouched run, I had to stop and yell for her to make sure she was coming out of the trees behind me after we hiked Northback and started down. A friend is more important than those turns. My brother is the person I've skied with the most and he's notoriously bad about not turning back to look for anyone -- too caught up in the moment -- so I always tell him the exact line I'm gonna ski before we start if we're on familiar ground.

Anyway, glad yer okay Frz! Best wishes on a return to the white room at your own pace...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by frozenwater
. My gloves which are gore tex and leather have the fingers clawed out of them,

---

HOLY SHIT ! :eek:

Glad to hear you are ok !

FW "This maggot is ok..." & wizer

I skied more than 15 years before ever getting stuck in a tree well or falling in a steep fall and maybe die spot. Sooner or later odds and chances can catch up and are sobering. A lot of tree wells don't look too serious but some are way scary ugly death traps. On Christmas Day while solo storm skiing in dense trees in 30"+ fresh from the storm which dumped across the West last week, I grazed the lip of one super deep tree well that was 5 or 6 feet deep with steep sides and not much diameter. Only an FRS radio or cell phone would have saved me had I fell in and didn't immediately suffocate. -dave

Been there, done that, and it totally freaked me out too. I panicked for a second, then cleared an air pocket (despite being upside down) and finally wiggled my way upright and out, inch by inch. (Wiggle, get buried, clear air pocket, repeat) Whistle, cell phone and beacon are all good ideas. Whistle would have been what helped me - people were standing 50 feet away and couldn't hear me screaming for help.

I felt the same way afterwards, wondering if I'm just an idiot or what. But seriously, it can happen to anyone. It's such a freak thing. Prepare yourself and skiing partners better in the future and get back out there.

dude Welcome back

lets ski this week

I'll buy you a cocktail afterwards

Whew. Good to hear you made it. Whistle is key for deep days. Beacon would be a good idea, but as we see from Splat's thread, there might not be many of your buds out there to receive.

Nice to have you still around frozen...
I have always battled with my wife wanting me to ski everything first because of this very thing. In fact it is usually me that is the one doing the falling, but I would still feel better skiing last, just in case. There are no turns worth a friend in the end.

glad all is well, F!

Last run of Alta opening day this season. No helmet, lost the crew b/c my boots were killing me. Just kind of ran over my own tip and front-rolled into a tree well.

Remained calm and was able to flick my skis over my head to roll right back out of the well.

I wouldn't make this into some big life lesson, frozen. Perhaps a little more buffer room between you and the trees next time. Don't let it spook you, mang.

Really glad you're alright, Frz. Sliding into a tree well IS a very scary deal. I wrote about it happening to me at Deer Valley a couple of years ago--scared the crap out of me. I remember a lot of maggot near-death stories from that thread. I searched for it on Pmag but it's lost forever.
Anyways, thanks for the tree well TR. It was a good one!!


Oh, by the by, one of the things that really struck me about battling my way out of a treewell was how exhausted and spent I felt when I finally got myself out. When it happens on a big pow day it feels like you're digging yourself out several times over because the more you move the more snow comes down on top of you from the loaded branches and side sloughs. My body felt like I'd skied a couple of days within just a few minutes. It was prolly a good call to leave after your experience...

Quote:

---

Originally posted by phUnk
I wouldn't make this into some big life lesson, frozen. Perhaps a little more buffer room between you and the trees next time. Don't let it spook you, mang.

---

Lil Phunky,

Good idea, but sometimes that deep is just too deep and you can't tell where the diameter of the well begins and where it ends. Not trying to bust your nuts or anything, but I wouldn't take it too lightly either. One of these days, I'll take you over to Supreme and show you the plaques (yes, more than one) nailed to trees for fallen comrades that were just skiing alone, enjoying a good pow day, accidentally fell into a tree well, couldn't get out, probably panicked and silently died. Their bodies weren't found for a week. Grom got real lucky and escaped an early meeting with his Maker two years ago - ask him about it sometime. Scary chit that I think we should all be aware of and like Rusty put it - the turns are not more important than me stopping to check on a friend. Just this past Saturday at the end of the day (last run), PoHo and I entered the Nest. He went way over by Greeley Slot and I skied down the New Stash. I figured he would hit the transfer tow same time as me. No PoHo for a few minutes; kinda worried me for a little bit. Then finally 1 PoHo comes flying into the tow waaaaaaaaaaay back there. While I have the greatest confidence in all members of the Crew, anyone can screw up and I do stop and wait occasionally in odd places just to make sure all are ok - the alternative is not worth my worry.

Makes me think a little about riding with my beacon a little more in-bounds and definitley buying a whistle or for those with cellies - carry them.

Again, thanks for the humbling report Froz; now as Phunk so brazenlly put it - git up here to Alta and git sum with us!!! Nothing like a little Alta luv to cleanse your soul and mind!!

Glad you are ok Frozeman!!

I have been right there too. After reading all this, I am for sure carrying my whistle from now on. I spend a lot of time in the trees at Beaver, as that is where the goods are and I have gotten used to riding them.

Last season, I got out of control off a small drop and ended up hitting a tree with my snowboard. It stoped me very quick and threw me right over the handlebars and head first into a tree well, twisting the whole time. I could not breathe. I panicked hardcore. I started twisting and turning everything in the most panicked way I'm sure possible. I had two feet locked into my snowboard bindings and could not get moved around. I was facing downhill head first in a lot of powder, in a remote area of the mountain. I kept having to throw my head up, grab a breath of air and sink my head again. Then desparately dig out a hole for my head. I finally got enough of a small pit to rest the front of my helmet on and have a few inches to breathe. That is when I started to come back from the panic attack and I felt a horrible pain in my left knee. Yes, this was the accident that ended my season early last year. Now, I am pretty sure that I lacerated my fat pad in the knee when I hit the tree with my board and got flung like a rag doll straight at the tree trunk. But I do not remember hearing the "POP" until I was able to breathe again. It was all so quick. I lost all sense of time and finally got onto my back, which is when I screamed out in pain from the knee. Could I have panicked so hard and flailed around so hard to get air that I twisted my knee so hard as to lacerate the upper fat pad?? I would not think so, maybe the panicking kept the pain out of my head till I could breathe??

Until reading about Frozen's story, I never really thought about that tree well incident. I remember the pain in my knee all too well, but the panic scamble is something I have never had conscious memories of since that happened till reading this.

On Friday I was at Beaver in the deeeeeep powder in about the same place and suddenly got real nervous that I was close to that spot where it all happened. I traversed nice and slow right out of that spot and did not go back there again.

Damn, this brought back some hardcore memories.


Edit: I do now ride with my cellie and a 5-mile radio always. Just gotta pull out the whistle I bought for Erica in college out of the "throw all" drawer. Hopefully soon enough I will get some avie gear. Then I need to learn to use it properly and lots of practice.

I didn't mean to imply that tree-wells are not serious business. I believe they are.

I was just urging Frz not dwell on his accident so much that he's too spooked to get back out there.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by phUnk
I didn't mean to imply that tree-wells are not serious business. I believe they are.

I was just urging Frz not dwell on his accident so much that he's too spooked to get back out there.

---

I know you didn't and knew you were. :)

Scary stuff, Frozen. Glad you're OK.

I think it's always good to hang with your buddies and know where they are, both for safety and stoke. Especially if they're not familiar with the area.

The stoke front is just me. I'd way rather take a few extra minutes getting down if I can see my buddies having a good time, and be there with 'em.

But I can see the other side, where you're having such a good time you forget about everything but the immediate present.

Either way, chalk it up to an accident. You fell down. Could have been head-first into a tree trunk or off a cliff, or just on a groomer where you'd get nothing but laughed at.

It's hard to shake off close calls but that's all they are. Be careful, be thankful, and be out there.

If we ever get out, I'll be sure to keep an eye on ya :D .


J-

PS Edit: I ride with a phone, and a radio if others I'm with have 'em.

Wow. Only one reply talks about a radio. Are these things so uncool?

Frozen,

Glad to hear you are OK. Not a good feeling that morning when you didn't come down from the trail. We should have looked out after each other a little more with all the new snow and potential dangers. Keep your head up and go back out there with confidence.

well, frozen, i skiied with iskibc today, and perhaps my new signature line will at least put a smile on your face! :D

PS IMHO you are doing the right thing by learning what lessons you can and then getting back out there. :)

Frozen, glad to hear that you are ok. I have never fallen in a tree well, but have had similar panic experinces on skis. Get back up there and show'em who's boss. [ass smack to the mtn] "you like that?"[end ass smack]

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Benny Profane
Wow. Only one reply talks about a radio. Are these things so uncool?

---

I use 'em...so they prolly are uncool. According to my kids, pretty much everything I do is uncool. :)

I'm about to buy another pair of FRS 5 milers. I can get rechargable digital Unidens or Motorolas. They both cost about the same and have the same features.

Anybody have a recommendation on which to get?

Froz, glad to hear your OK. Scary schit. I had a friend die in bounds at Winter Park in a tree well. Massive storm, skiing with a posse, didn't show up at the end of the run, found upside down in a tree well days later.

While beacons, probes and shovels play their part in the safety equation, don't overlook the importance of keeping your eyes on each other. When you are at the area (not BC) the buddy system seems to work well. At the top of the run/pitch/face just tell someone your following them and they need to make sure your with. Increase the structure of the group as the the terrain/situation gets increasingly risky. It's a slippery slope from ski mountaineering to wedging the bunny slope. There is not one set of protocalls for all situations.

Disasters are averted with a compination of sound desicion and proper equipment and knowledge.

Radios - Would have worked (possible) if someone above him had a radio and Froz keyed it in time. Once your below someone, your ability to help in decreased exponentially.

Whistles - Much better than a radio. Can be heard by anyone.

This is what you want, a Fox40. I have one in my chest pocket on a string. Not really the best location, any ideas
http://www.kangasport.com.au/images/fox40_whistle.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles


Whistles - Much better than a radio. Can be heard by anyone.

This is what you want, a Fox40. I have one in my chest pocket on a string. Not really the best location, any ideas
http://www.kangasport.com.au/images/fox40_whistle.jpg

---

Got mine attached to the shoulder strap of my backpack. Easy access.

Frozen, glad you came out ok. Hearing stories like yours makes me think a little harder about where I am since I ski solo so much of the time.
Endless, I just got a pair of Uniden 5 milers and so far I like them. Easy to use, a little on the large side but not unmanageable by any means. My son thinks they are cool, he can bug me about giving him money from anywhere on the mountain! I never used to carry one when I was on my own, but the last few weeks I have always kept one with me for safety.
As far as having someone to respond to radio calls Baker patrol monitors 9-11, there are signs around letting people know that. I assumed all patrols would do that on some channel of their choosing. Is that not the case? If not I think it would be a good idea to suggest they do.

Glad to hear your alright.

I was in REI this evening shopping for those two-way radios, and picked up two Fox40 whistles for the lady and I. They were 4.50 a piece, which I happily handed over to the cashier.

It's nuking up in BCC right now, so ya'll get after it tomorrow.

GLAD YOU ARE ALRIGHT
I hear lots of people get caught in treewells and never get out.

BEACON
If you paid for the fucking beacon, why not wear it at all times on the snow? SAR and ski patrol will do beacon searches in avalanches even if told that the victems were not wearing beacons.

AVALUNG
It does'nt seem like an avalung woulda helped here since he had no warning and therefor no time to put the mouthpiece in... unless you follow that one method where you always have the tube in your mouth... or maybe I'm misunderstanding.

RADIOS
FRS/GMRS radios are as unreliable as cellphones on the mountain. In fact, they are less reliable because a cellphone will go right to 911.

5 Miles is bullshit unless you have true LINE OF SIGHT and even then it can be iffy. I found most FRS radios (all FRS only radios are 0.5W) are effective at ~0.5 average while on the mountain if you don't have true LOS. If you have a FRS/GMRS radio, no matter what its stated output, it will only do 0.5W for channels 8-14. This makes monitoring 9-11 stupid for anyone with a halway decent radio (for the type of radio we are talking about).

Nobody monitors FRS or GMRS channels around here.

Summit County's SAR team has some FRS type radios but they aren't apparently employed unless someone specifically says that a lost victim had one.

Universal monitoring of a single channel and CTCSS code by all resorts does seem like a good idea, but there is nothing to stop people from using that for personal use. Still, something like 6-11 seems like a find choice.

GMRS channel 20-22 (or was that 22-20?) is the unnoficial emergency GMRS channel monitored by some civil defense types, but that monitoring is exceedingly rare even more rare is the possibility that you are in range onf someone who is monitoring with a wimpy 0.5W or 1W GMRS radio.

There are plenty of radios out there that cannot do CTCSS codes and some radios have nonstandard codes. Disabling CTCSS (like channel 9-0 or 4-0 or 18-0) will let yo uhear all traffic on a given channel, CTCSS or not, but if you reply only people with CTCSS disabled or without it on their radios will hear you. Bleh.

The best bet I think is to scan and when you find an active channel/code combo, transmit if you need to be helped. Most of the time you will simply be trying to raise some gaper and convince them to go to a patrol phone.

RADIO SUMMARY

FRS/GMRS are mostly usefull for keeping track of your group and should never be relied upon to summon help due to their unreliability. They are much more likely to summon help in a busy resort vs the backcountry (where chances would be nil).

Much more reliable for the backcountry would be a nonactiave iridium sat phone or a PLB. A VHF/UHF radio would be a good choice too assuming you have a HAM license, know how to use your radio, and know the local repeater input/outputs.

The Motorola T5820 or T5920 seem like a kickass deals on amazon.com at the moment... $50 per PAIR then you get a $25 or $10 rebate. 1W FRS/GMRS radios.

I carry a Motorola T7200 FRS/GMRS radio which does 2W output and is GMRS repeater capable (not that there are any GMRS repeaters around here). Soon (once I find a place to pass the FCC technician exam) I will be carrying a Yaesu VX-7R 5W 4-band VHF/UHF radio.

FINAL THOUGHTS
I think, as was mentioned above, carefull skiinig, close attention to your buddies and a WHISTLE are the best defense against treewell traps.

Well, sure, radios have their downside, but c'mon, they can be a Godsend in the trees just for peace of mind. It's pretty hard to keep that "line of sight", and if and when seperation occurs, just a few words can calm things down if things screw up. That and a cell could save one's ass, if you could get to them.

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Foggy_Goggles
Froz, glad to hear your OK. Scary schit. I had a friend die in bounds at Winter Park in a tree well. Massive storm, skiing with a posse, didn't show up at the end of the run, found upside down in a tree well days later.

While beacons, probes and shovels play their part in the safety equation, don't overlook the importance of keeping your eyes on each other.

---

Foggy - I am so sorry about your loss.

Hear, hear on "keeping your eyes on each other." The silver lining on Frozen's shitty experience is that I (for one) will change my behavior when skiing solo. One of the great things about this board is that it reduces the solo days! :)

Scary shit, glad you pulled out of it. My wife fell into one of those last year at Alta. I was there but got a little freaked out when she didn't pop up after a minute. She was digging down, didn't know which way was up. Freaked her out pretty good. Another minute and I was going to jump in there and get her. We don't have these things where we live.
Right now we don't even have snow.