RWD + Stability Control + Snow Tire = Good Enough?

Printable View

11-16-2005, 03:23 PM
joshbu

RWD + Stability Control + Snow Tire = Good Enough?

As many of you know, my car was recently stolen, and shows no signs of coming back.

I'm in the market for some new wheels, But outside of a few contenders, it looks like I have to give up a lot of performance for AWD.

So, my query is, is there anyone out there driving a RWD sport sedan with stability control and snow tires through nasty winter conditions regularly? (Yes, Dr C. I know all about you and your Miata... :biggrin: )

If so, how's it going? Do you find it reasonable (ground clearance issues aside...)
11-16-2005, 04:04 PM
dubu

Alpy yes,
Stevens yes/maby
crystal, maby.
Baker, no.

snow tires help a lot, but the switch backs at baker are bound to suck.

what kind of car anyway?
years a go I drove an rwd sports car to alpy every weekend with all seasons.
11-16-2005, 04:48 PM
irul&ublo

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbu

RWD + Stability Control + Snow Tire = Good Enough?

Good enough to have to put on chains when the DOT morons decide you need to.
11-16-2005, 04:55 PM
Buster Highmen

S4, d00d. C'monnnnnnn...
11-16-2005, 05:29 PM
joshbu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

S4, d00d. C'monnnnnnn...

There's an 2005 Audi S4 with 11k miles asking $45,000 on Micronews right now. I'd love that car like it was my son (it's silver too... not "steal me yellow.") But that's a pretty penny for a new home owner.

I was kind of hoping to go with the 2nd Gen M3, but Irul brings up a good point. How often do the po-po force you to chain up your Audi, Buster?
11-16-2005, 05:59 PM
Shin-to-Win

Why not a 2001 S4? I've seen those go for $21k or so with low miles (30K)
11-16-2005, 06:33 PM
onehotchili

i am on my second Audi S4 (had a 2001.5 Avant) and now have a 2001 Sedan. it is setup to do over 400hp with 93 octane gas (or more on race gas). :fm:

waaaaayy fun on the track and the back roads around Tahoe.
11-16-2005, 06:36 PM
Buster Highmen

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbu

There's an 2005 Audi S4 with 11k miles asking $45,000 on Micronews right now. I'd love that car like it was my son (it's silver too... not "steal me yellow.") But that's a pretty penny for a new home owner.

I was kind of hoping to go with the 2nd Gen M3, but Irul brings up a good point. How often do the po-po force you to chain up your Audi, Buster?

Irul(x) == GoodPoint? Bad algebra.

Never been asked to chain up. They _are_ AWD.
11-16-2005, 07:20 PM
BakerBoy

This is Washington -- not California. They don't make you chain up AWD cars with winter-rated tires.

S4, all the way.
11-16-2005, 09:03 PM
300hp

If you are heartset on an E36 m3, the biggest consideration for winter driving is a limited slip differential. If hte car does not have a limited slip, expect a one-wheel spinning wonder, particularly in corners. A limited-equipped RWD with good snow tires is more than capable, but nothing that I would want to go bombing up to the mountain in, just because of ground clearance issues. Grab yourself a lightly used STi, throw snows on it, and have tooo much fun on the way to the hill.
Hunter
11-16-2005, 10:29 PM
BakerBoy

joshbu is FAR too refined of a gentleman to be driving around a shitty little Japanese econo-box with 300hp in it. ;)
11-16-2005, 10:36 PM
300hp

well, then by all means enjoy Dien S4, ya. They are great machines for sure, I just enjoy japanese reliability. 85k on mine so far making 110whp more than stock. And yes, I drive it in the winter too.
11-16-2005, 11:05 PM
Hicks

Just on a side note the stability control doesn't really help when road conditions borderline. On snowy/icy steep uphill climbs you need to switch it off anyway since the traction control - in it's effort to avoid wheelspin - slows you down in a way that you loose all momentum you need to keep going.

Finally it comes down a lot to like it was in the good old days - it often depends on how skilled of a driver you are.
11-17-2005, 04:49 AM
markcjr

rwd = fine

I drove from MA to CA 4 years ago. My first two seasons at squaw, I drove my 1967 ford econoline van (scooby doo, rwd) from truckee to squaw every day. Prior, used it from UMASS Amherst to sunday river, ME every weekend. Just go easy on the gas and you'll be fine. Granted, I drive a subaru now, but only cause my motor crapped out. Though there's something to be said for power steering and power brakes etc......
shag

oh yeah, momentum is your friend! any hills in your commute? if you get stopped on one, you might me done. flat fine, hills with steep stops, get awd.
11-17-2005, 01:16 PM
joshbu

Refined. Hah! The outgoing ride was a bright yellow Integra Type R.

The STI and the EVO are both in the picture, but honestly "lightly used" and those cars don't often go hand and hand. Besides, they would have the same ground clearance issues as any other sport compact/sedan, yes?

Also, new STI = most heinous front end / double winged body ever.
11-17-2005, 06:06 PM
BakerBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbu

Refined. Hah! The outgoing ride was a bright yellow Integra Type R.

The STI and the EVO are both in the picture, but honestly "lightly used" and those cars don't often go hand and hand. Besides, they would have the same ground clearance issues as any other sport compact/sedan, yes?

Also, new STI = most heinous front end / double winged body ever.

So THAT's how you pull the young college girls... ;)

I would never buy a used STi or EVO either... I was even thinking about buying a used Legacy GT Wagon, but I'm not sure I want to do that either.

Agreed on about the new STi front ends. In fact, the new Tribeca is even worse, and they share it. They definitely fucked that one up.
11-17-2005, 06:34 PM
300hp

Eh, the new front end really grew on me. Seeing it in person helped, and once the car is lowered a tad i think it looks good. I agree though, 04-05 is the way to go. EVOs, most I have seen are pretty ragged on. I know of a fair number of STis that have remained stock and well cared for during their tenure under adult ownership.

my next suby will probably be a LGT. I'm building the motor in my current one though, so that will be in a long while.

I will never go back to a FWD/RWD car in an area that sees lots of snow though. All wheels spinning is soooo much better. just ask bakerboy. I bet he's passed a good number of stuck SUV's on his way to the hill
H.
11-17-2005, 06:46 PM
Theodore

For what is worth all E36 M3's have a LSD. I've heard they are fine with good tires. I shall find out this winter in my M3 sedan. Search for a thread by Truth. He did a big ol trip out west with his E46 M3 adn did just fine. I'd say go for it. I used to have a '95 318is that I took up to summit co. a few times. First time was on nearly bald 235/45-17s and I made it to A Basin just fine over loveland covered in packed snow. I've also gone to Breck in a whiteout with 90% tread on some Kuhmo MX's that did just fine. As an added bonus the ACS on teh M3's is annoyingly over active when its on, so that should help. If you wanna head over to bimmerforums.com I'm sure there are a hundred threads on how they do in the white stuff...
11-18-2005, 05:59 AM
Hicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

S4, all the way.

I always wonder why you guys are after engines like that with the donkey-nuts sucking 55/65 mph speed limit when the smallest one available would do the same job for a lot less money.

Except you fuck the cops on a permanent basis of course.:the_finge :fm:
11-18-2005, 08:35 AM
BakerBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hicks

I always wonder why you guys are after engines like that with the donkey-nuts sucking 55/65 mph speed limit when the smallest one available would do the same job for a lot less money.

Except you fuck the cops on a permanent basis of course.:the_finge :fm:

There's no law that says you can't go 65 thru the turns also... :FIREdevil

Speed limits are like guidelines. Not curbs, but painted lines on the road.
11-18-2005, 10:24 AM
scoober

truth drove his e46 m3 all over the place with snows right? Honestly a BMW with true snows would not scare me at all, especially up to Stevens or Snoqualmie. Baker may get a little tense, but do-able with patience. They are very true handling cars. You can always get yourself out of an oversteer slide in an RWD, but once you push into an understeer slide in FWD, it becomes less fun.

FWIW, I drove an e30 318i in some serious midwest shit winters in all season Potenza's (re910) without any problems at all, just needed a couple sandbags in the back.

I agree that a limited slip differential is something to look for rather than electronic traction/stability control (although most cars you'd probably be looking at will have that anyway).

And I will go on record as saying I like the new Impreza front end. The grill is much less-bad than the Tribeca. The thing i like most about it is the headlamps though, they finally shortened them to the same height as the original generation Imprezas (my favorite still). The bug eyes grew on me, but I thought the last generation headlights were some of the worst penned things I've ever seen. Way too tall for the lines of that car.

But in all honesty, just sack up and get a 996 turbo.
11-18-2005, 11:14 AM
Hicks

Quote:

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

Speed limits are like guidelines. Not curbs, but painted lines on the road.

Since I got it in writing now will figure out whether it works same here too.....:rolleyes2
11-18-2005, 11:25 AM
irul&ublo

Quote:

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

This is Washington -- not California. They don't make you chain up AWD cars with winter-rated tires.

S4, all the way.

As a practical matter, they don't in California either. There is an R-3 restriction, meaning everyone has to have chains, but I have never seen it enforced. If conditions are that bad, the roads get closed.
11-18-2005, 06:43 PM
BakerBoy

Quote:

Originally Posted by irul&ublo

As a practical matter, they don't in California either. There is an R-3 restriction, meaning everyone has to have chains, but I have never seen it enforced. If conditions are that bad, the roads get closed.

Really, so all those stories about people getting hassled like crazy on the way to Kirkwood are false?
11-19-2005, 01:25 AM
PeachesN'Cream

Quote:

Originally Posted by BakerBoy

Really, so all those stories about people getting hassled like crazy on the way to Kirkwood are false?

i wasn't part of the kweed crew, but i grew up skiing on donner summit and never once did i (or anybody i know) get stoped casue i/they didn't have chains for a 4 dubbia deee veeehickle. if it was ever that bad they nixed the road.
11-19-2005, 02:22 AM
Spats

I hear they check 4WD for chains around Los Angeles, but I've never seen it happen in the Sierras.

I've even got through a couple times in my RWD pickup just by holding up four fingers and driving through, though I've also been called on it once.

(And, for the record, I've never been stuck or run into anything when doing this. I save it for when the road is just slushy and putting chains on would put me at serious risk of snapping them and destroying my quarter panels, which has happened once already due to overzealous Caltrans enforcement requiring chains on wet roads.)