Young Children in the BC

My daughter is just 10. She has been skiing for about 7 years. During the past 4-5 years, she has been getting 30 or so days in per year. The only places she has ever skied have been Austria, Germany and Utah. IMO, for her age, she rips it up. She has skied most of The Canyons (not 9990), a lot of terrain in and around Peruvian and Gad at Snowbird, and can handle (and look pretty good) in the fluff. By nature, she is a bit apprehensive. I love skiing with her, would like to keep broadening her ski experience. How, and when can/should I introduce her to the BC? She is a bit cautious. While, I enjoy being an active parent, and I know that my daughter really enjoys time with me on the slopes, I don't want to scare her off, or turn her away from the sport. I didn't enter the BC until my 20s. WHen did you mags. start skiing the bowls and BC? WHat do you think about my inquiry?

I skied backcountry when I was 6. I didn't enjoy it until I was 12 or 13.

Go slow. REAL slow, what's a short skin for an adult is an endless slog for a kid.

Also remember that kids don't know how to avoid overheating. I remember wearing way too much, then sweating, then freezing my ass off.

I guess it depends on what kind of bc you are talking about and who else is going.

Me personally, i'd like a partner in the bc that can save my life. Whether that be finding the trailhead and getting help if I break my leg or digging/pulling me out of a tree well or worse.

Wait til spring. For 1 , it's safer. For two, corn is easy to ski, and would give a good first impression. For 3, regulating temperatures may be a bit easier, or at least she would not have to worry about getting too cold when you stop.

I started skiing the backcountry at a young age with friends and looking back on own actions I wish my parents would have taken me out and shown me how to take precations and understand avy conditions. I grew up in PC and remember skiing square top back when the canyons was wolf mountain and having to slog hours to get there. We were really dumb kids and while we all took avy classes (because the ski team we were on gave up a weekend for avy safety), we still didn't carry shovels or probes.:nonono2: She is eventually going to wonder into the backcountry with friends or by herself, so take the opportunity to show her the ropes before she no longer wants to ski with you because you can't keep up.:smile:

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Originally Posted by flykdog

Me personally, i'd like a partner in the bc that can save my life.

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Don't take your daughter where this dude is talking about.

I agree w/ skiski, Spring is the time. Actually it can be any corn window where access is via a nice mellow boot pack. It certainly doesn't have to be any kind of steep or gnarly run like she's been ripping at the resorts. Just making first tracks in a big open bowl is what she'll dig most the first time out. Be prepared to carry a lot of her shit as well as yours.

I chose to take one of my daughters up to an easy little Spring run off of Carson Pass that was 100% accessable off of dirt. The run was only 500 vertical feet, we brought snacks and a lunch and kept it real casual. She loved it and even made a little book out of the pictures I took. She was only 7, so naming ponds and rocks was as important to her as the skiing.

Skinning is a possibility. I know a guy that takes his daughter up Tallac (w/ her snowboard on his back) while she cross country skis up the skin tract. She's a tough little girl and has been cross country skiing for quite a while.

Agreed. Not sure I'd feel good taking a 10 year old out into the steeper backcounty since can a 10 year old locate me and dig me out quickly? Risk her life? But it really depends on the kind of BC, time of year, conditions, who else is with, nature of the 10 year old in question, etc. She'll love the experiences and memories you create (as long as you do it responsibly), and will be better prepared for going out with friends later on.

Not that my BC experiences are many (very few), but I've only been in the BC with well trained people I trusted, so felt comfortable with them.

Would you be able to live with yourself if something went horribly, horribly wrong?

I'm pretty sure you are asking in terms of hiking in the BC and not snowcat access but I feel it is worth mentioning in case you are considering all options. I have been in Snowcats with young kids ( 10-13 yr old range) on two seperate occasions and they had bigger smiles than the adults. There was a twelve year old last year that has been going since he was nine and his father said he has no interest in earning his turns due to the effort involved so this was his way of spending a day in the backcounty with him.

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Originally Posted by yentna

A


Not that my BC experiences are many (very few), but I've only been in the BC with well trained people I trusted, so felt comfortable with them.

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And they looked upon you like a 10yo child.

They've got to start sometime. I'd say take them out keep it real low key and make it more about getting out for a walk that about skiing. Take lots of hot chocolate and good snaks

I plan on getting my kids out soon. The oldest is 8yo. I figure I'm going to get them on xc gear this winter and perhaps by spring they may be ready to do a little b/c walk.

Right now, my thinking is to start her off out in the area of The Pines and The Aspens at Saddleback, then with some of those neat little stashes off of Peak 5. If we get great snow, maybe we will hike Murdoch's (which is not such a huge hike for a really nice open bowl). This will give her good experience in trees, deep snow, hiking and bowl skiing. If I do this slowly, I am hoping that she will dig it. I think that, at least right now, she is not ready for Dutch's or Square Top. Who knows, she may surprise me!

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Originally Posted by Beaver

And they looked upon you like a 10yo child.

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Excellent point, I was thinking that as I posted, wondered if I'd get flamed, grin. But they also kept it pretty simple and safe(er).

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Originally Posted by Beaver

They've got to start sometime. I'd say take them out keep it real low key and make it more about getting out for a walk that about skiing. Take lots of hot chocolate and good snaks

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She'll love that, it'll be an adventure for her, it was for me, though I was 24 at the time. :D

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Originally Posted by yentna

Excellent point, I was thinking that as I posted, wondered if I'd get flamed, grin. But they also kept it pretty simple and safe(er).

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We've all been the 10yo touring gaper at one time or another. When I was 17 I was in those shoes, the 2 guys I was with were in the same shoes. When I look back at the stuff we skied it's a wonder we survived. We were fortunate to have the classic southern selkirk bomber snowpack.

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Originally Posted by 13

Would you be able to live with yourself if something went horribly, horribly wrong?

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This is the ultimate question. I have been wrestling with it quite a bit as of late...

My same 7 year b.c. skiing daughter turned 9 on Saturday. When I asked her what she wanted for a birthday present, she said a climbing rope (already has a harness and some rock wall experience). I discussed it with mom, and ultimately purchased for us, a 50' section of rope for some mellow top roping. I don't anticipate using it until next Spring, and only if I'm feeling 100% safe about what we are doing. I was very divided over this purchase.

I would love to safely introduce my kids to all of my passions, so they can safely pursue them based on the proper introduction (I agree ~at least one of~ my kids is going to pursue them whether I introduce her or not). However, it is a potentially consequential decision to put gear and a little experience in the hands of child that could potentially put themself in a situation that causes injury or death. I am not a fly by night dad, or distant uncle who is going to take them once, and then fade away for awhile. I will be their primary partner for the next 5+ years. I figure I'll listen to them as much as they listen to me. We'll keep it fun and keep it safe.

My parents started getting into the Backcountry at that age, and I loved it. But it wasn't "backcountry" in the shovel/probe/beakon sense; it was Tucks in April, or hiking out to the wall in Devil's Castle. Maybe that's cake for your daughter already, but the important thing about it, IMO, was that there were lots of people around. As a kid, I didn't really appreciate the whole "getting away from it all." Being alone in the mountains is fun, but not so much when you're that young.

So popular side-country seems like the best idea to me.

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My parents started getting into the Backcountry at that age, and I loved it. But it wasn't "backcountry" in the shovel/probe/beakon sense;

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I spent a lot of weekends out with my parents from 7 or 8 years old. Same thing, not b/c like steep couliers, you fall you die stuff, just lots of x-country type tours, snowshoe hikes and winter camping.
Just have to set your personal risk level a little lower and keep at mellow. I can't think of a better place for a kid to spend lots of time than in the mountains.

I think taking your child into the BC would be a wonderful thing. She will learn from her father to respect and enjoy the mountains for a lifetime. I don't think it even needs to be discussed that you will obviously be reserved, cautions, etc. Have fun.

I thank my father for introducing me into mountaineering, climbing. If he didn't, I might have ended up being a fat ass watching monday night football. Not that there is anything wrong with that.;)

my kids have been doing it since they were born. First in a backpack than learning to ski on a car shuttle run after school. here is a story I posted on ttips that my oldest son wrotefor health class:
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Why I Like Skiing

Skiing is a fun and exhilarating sport. I like skiing with my dad and not my mom cause she gets hysterical and not my little brother because he whines. All skiing trips start like this. We are all really bored and are sitting at home after a storm my dad is telling us to do stuff from the couch while he is being lazy after me and ben get my dad off the couch we ask if we can go skiing . Next comes the getting everyone and everything in the car ritual. Dad, me, and mom go into the shed to find skis, poles, skins, avalanche beacons and backpacks, here are some quotes: "What the, why is this pole broke in half" "these skins don't stick" don't worry we'll just use duct tape" "my boots don't fit" "first of all try undoing the bindings before you put them on" "they still don't fit" "where are those new 100$ beacons from Colorado" "Ben was playing treasure hunt again". Meanwhile my little brother Ben has been in charge of making "survival food" the usual PB&J sandwiches. Ben has his own recipes and usually puts bananas, cheerios, blueberries, honey, and hot chocolate mix in his "Sandwiches". After 2 hours of throwing stuff in the back of the truck and having mom and dad yell at me about not having my stuff on I finally get every thing of mine ready. Now I have to endure the mandatory 1/2 hour wait in the living room with enough clothes on to get through the ice age. While my brother has changed his mind about going and now wants to sit at home. After much tears we are out the door and on our way to a mountain that looks good to ski. We stop at the store to get some "motivators" a candy bar or two of our own choice. I get a Three Musketeers bar because it gives you the most energy per bite my dad gets a snickers because it has the most Grams of sugar and Ben gets a Baby Ruth because it looks like something gross and mom gets nothing because she's "on a diet". When we get in the truck mom Takes some of mine and Ben's candy bars saying you don't need it ben has a counter plan by the time we get in the truck that Baby Ruth is gone. Once we get too the parking spot we unload and quickly skin up and start going up the mountain Ben goes first wading through the snow that’s up to his waist Ben thinks going up the mountain is a race and the summit the finish line the prize you get an excuse to eat more food and brag that your faster than anyone else. Dad and I quickly pass him in the "big race". If you pass Ben you automatically get a little demon that thinks ski poles are swords and that he is someone from lord of the rings. My dad calms Ben down and We're all going up the mountain when either mine or bens skin falls off. Dad had given us 20 year old skins that he used when he was young and by now they are completely unsticky from years in our shed. We reattach the skins with a skiers secret weapon, duct tape. Duct tape is also used on our many blisters to protect our feet from rubbing against the inside of the boot some times Ben doesn’t wear socks skiing. We're all cold but Ben's the coldest and now he is throwing a fit ski poles fly everywhere. Dad threatens to turn around about 10 times and ben keeps going on even though his tears are frozen to his face. we get close to the summit and it's cold the wind is howling. Mom has a favorite turn the kick turn it is mom's favorite turn because it is used for going up the hill more specifically for making switch backs where it's steep. We finally are one switch back left from the top and ben runs up the trail, somehow he is running on skis. Ben reaches the top first and starts asking for food. He has been trying to steal my candy bar the whole hike because he already ate his. The rest of us look at he view for a couple minutes. When you ski up the hill you are going at a snails pace it seems like an eternity of tired legs chapped lips frozen extremities and little brothers. the fact that you have hiked up a big mountain is just amazing. We eat lunch, "sandwiches" and trail mix I eat the trail mix even though ben and mom have high graded all of the M&Ms and chocolate chips out of it. Dad and I never touch the sandwiches partly because of what ben put in them and partly because they get squished to a pulp and then frozen. After lunch we take off our skins and get ready to go down hill. The top is mom's least favorite part and once ben said "Dad my leg won't stop twitching". Dad goes first because he tests the snow because he is expendable, and then one by one we ski down the mountain. That's the best part. The snow is always powdery and you turn so easily. Mom Freaks out going down the mountain and says she got caught in an avalanche when some snow sluffs past her. Well that is about it I really can't describe what it's like skiing down the mountain. After we get down to the truck we take off our gear and go home at home we just fall into our chairs and veg out. That is why I like skiing I mean if everyone skied like that who wouldn't?

Not much changed except Ben is no longer 6 and everbody has fat skins and skis.
http://www.biglines.com/photos/blpic37085.jpg
http://www.telemarktips.com/Photopos...m/IM000133.JPG
http://www.telemarktips.com/Photopos...0-22-_1_2_.JPG the first two are from last season on a day we skied boot top powder to breakable crust to avie debris. The third is an old photo getting ready to ski Nosebleed at Hatcher Pass when my youngest was still using kids XC skis wit skins taped to them to get up than switching to his downhill gear for the descent.

Awesome. All smiles. Priceless. I am not a father, but if/when that happens, this is what I dream of doing.
http://www.telemarktips.com/Photopos...0-22-_1_2_.JPG

BFD, that's just about the best damn thing I've read lately! :cool: Astounding to "see" that ski experience thru a kid's eyes.

It's still scary to me...but then I'm strictly a resort skier (for now). It sounds like you know what you're doing. Lucky kids there!

Sprite

only problem is now they want to go on all the trips. we are in a drought here and am trying to figure how I can get away to Pemberton B.C. and not take them. Hopefully it will start dumping and I can just stay home.

As a father of two teenage girls and a former ski guide I have always valued getting my kids into the backcountry. They started really skiing when they were three years old, advancing to difficult slopes within a few years. Over the years they became expert skiers. Growing up skiing Alta they are into powder and steeps, so by the time they got into the BC the terrain was easily managed.

By the time they were eight years old they had skied the Baldy Chutes and Wolverine Cirque (both involve 20-45 minute booters). Since then, the extent of their backcountry experience has been limited only by motivation (they would rather rip the resort with their friends than slog about with their old man) and their lack of self-sufficiency with regards to avalanche safety. The oldest has taken her level one course and the younger takes hers next month. As your child is too young for that your best bet is to go in a group which includes at least two solid backcountry skiers or avoid potentially hazardous terrain. Look upon BC skiing with your child as you would if you were a ski guide. Everything depends on you making the right choices.

If your child has the necessary drive and equipment, and you have the experience to KNOW that a slope will be safe to ski (ie. bomber snowpack or low-angle) then you are golden. Go very (very) slow. Stop often to look around, eat snacks, stay hydrated, dig snow caves, etc. Do not demand too much self-sufficiency at first. Be prepared to carry her skis and some equipment. As she becomes proud of her exploits and abilities she will want to carry her own skis and be more self-sufficient. Only ski terrain that would be well within her abilities in a resort. Don't pick potentially hazardous terrain and make avalanche hazard an issue (be aware, but pick terrain where you won't be thinking about the possibility of digging for your child).

If you go slow and you match new challenges to her increasing interest she will enjoy the BC and cherish the experiences. One bad day when Dad pushed too hard can forestall any more days in the BC (I'm not implying you would ever push too hard, but many do).

Keep her very well hydrated and don't let her bonk. Go to the store together and shop for fuel (chocolate, fruit, energy bars, etc.). This will lead to some pre-trip anticipation and make her feel more involved.

One last thing: use tons of sunscreen.

BFD, that is what its all about.

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Originally Posted by Trackhead

I thank my father for introducing me into mountaineering, climbing. If he didn't, I might have ended up being a fat ass watching monday night football. Not that there is anything wrong with that.;)

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i think its ironic that the fat ass monday night bacon eatin pabst swillin football watchin 54 year old heart attack victim is the same guy that introduced you to all that.

as far as bringing kids out to do what you love. do it. they wont be able to help loving it too and you will enjoy it even more. i took my 4 year old son out for a hike in the woods. no big deal right. until we stopped at his friends house and my son said "you should have a dad like mine."

my kids are 7, 11 and 13. They ski since age 3 (attending cheap collective ski lessons in verb.... 100 dollars per week), and begun to stay far for groomed with me at age - about - 5. But this is sort of customary in verb were collective ski lessons quickly bring kids away from groomed. Said that, BC is something different. I would be reluctant to bring the 7 and the 11 with me to skin 'cuz they'll prolly hate it. This winter, though, I brought twice my 13 to skin a bit:

here (less than one hour skinning, easy and enjoyable)
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25087


and here (three hours, prolly too much for him):
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30816

in any case, now the 13 wants skins and AT bindings for Xmas

I ski with Brownmonkey.

He looks about 10.

powderdave, a lot of your advice also sounds good for introducing grown-up beginners to the BC experience. I'm thinkin'--me! Hopefully I can find a patient guide one day. I will keep some of those tips in mind.

Sprite

All of your posts are both enjoyable reading, and very encouraging. Although, I love skiing with my wife, friends and family, it's no longer about me. It is ALL about getting my two kids (6 and 10) to enjoy nature, the mountains, themselves and each other. Skiing has always been more than just a sport to me... It is a way of life; and it builds character and responsibility. I believe that one of the best things that I can do for my children is to help them to enjoy this type activity (SCUBA also). How to ease them into this thought process is the task that is not so easy to acomplish. I don't want to be too laidback, or too aggressive. You guys are being very helpful. Tx.

lol...how is brownmonkey? that dood is funny.

Sprite

Brownmonkey is in HMP Verne at the moment. He should be paroled in time for our December ski shambles.

One other suggestion, since kids like other kids and since havnig another competent backcountry skier around is a good idea, you should consider finding a friend with a similar aged kid to join you, if possible.

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Originally Posted by bad_roo

Brownmonkey is in HMP Verne at the moment. He should be paroled in time for our December ski shambles.

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He said BC, not WC.

Dad goes first because he tests the snow because he is expendable,

LOL best quote ever


and then one by one we ski down the mountain. That's the best part. The snow is always powdery and you turn so easily. Mom Freaks out going down the mountain and says she got caught in an avalanche when some snow sluffs past her. Well that is about it I really can't describe what it's like skiing down the mountain. After we get down to the truck we take off our gear and go home at home we just fall into our chairs and veg out. That is why I like skiing I mean if everyone skied like that who wouldn't?

damn i wish i was your kid

There is no way I'd ever intrust my life to a 10-15 year old.

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Originally Posted by adam

There is no way I'd ever intrust my life to a 10-15 year old.

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If American, you virtually have.

Sure! get her in the backcountry! that is awesome... but... where and when is the question:

Not when and where the avalanche danger is at all significant.

Like dogs, small children do not belong in areas where avalanche danger exists. They cannot rescue you or often not themselves and they may not understand where and where not to go.

Older children its all a judgement call. How old is 10? I don't know...

Edit: For SCUBA, PADI has a variety of programs... even for you 6 year old (not scuba but air supplied snorkels). Hhonestly I wouldn't want a kid under the age of 14 as a dive buddy and don't like thier Jr Open Water program for 10-14 y/o even with the 12m depth restriction (since panic and lung expansion injuries are more common with shallow dives)...

i was in the bc when i was 8 doing hut trips. and on the weekends during the school year we were in the bc to all depends what you are gonna drop in on and how much your kid is into it

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Originally Posted by Summit

Edit: For SCUBA, PADI has a variety of programs... even for you 6 year old (not scuba but air supplied snorkels). Hhonestly I wouldn't want a kid under the age of 14 as a dive buddy and don't like thier Jr Open Water program for 10-14 y/o even with the 12m depth restriction (since panic and lung expansion injuries are more common with shallow dives)...

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PADI is the way to go. I first dawned a tank when I was 8. I was scared shitless. Looking back, it was very cool. The tank was about 8" long. We sat at the bottom of a pool for about 10mins. I didn't become certified by PADI until I was 17. Recue Diver status at about 22. I have spoken with my 10 year old about SCUBA. She is a strong swimmer, but is not ready for it. Next summer, we will talk again. Our first dive off the north shore of Cayman is going to be great. ...Sort of like the first run down Great Scott or Silver Fox.

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Originally Posted by adam

There is no way I'd ever intrust my life to a 10-15 year old.

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Yeah, I wouldn't trust you either.

Lots of good comments in this thread.

Keep it close & easy. Kids like familiar places, so a walk on skis up someplace like Albion before Alta opens can be appropriate:

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL1023...8/94796025.jpg

Sara skinning at age 11

It's a beautiful & healthy thing to share. Ditto the safety comments, a kid won't be much help in an injury or avalanche scenario. Best to keep it small or have grownup assistance available.

As a Dad I'm sure you already know that good snacks can help:

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL1023...0/94938550.jpg

Started my daughter at 2.5yrs old on little kids xc boots & bindings on little alpine skis w/climbing skin scraps. I'd pull her in a sled up Mill Creek where we'd shuffle around, throw snowballs & picnic then pull skins & ski down together. Classic kid stuff.

At age five we were heading out for our first ski day of the year up the Albion road at Alta. There was a bunch of new snow & she said "I'll break trail Daddy!" I got to follow her into the woods where we found a porcupine waddling around & good log for a picnic table. We watched the critter & took turns diving off the log into the deep powder snow. This was no dick waiving gnarly extremo face shot big huck effort, but remains one of my best days on skis ever.

She's skied from Big C to Mill Creek via Dog Lake & to Catherine Pass from Alta:

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL1023...0/94938542.jpg

& other good stuff. My challenge is her mom (we're divorced, she's an expert skier who knows better) argues anything outside a ski area means avalance death. I've even had to argue w/mom about being able to ski off the groomed runs w/Sara, who has been a little powderhound since day 1. I think she may be jealous of us. Hah.

Good luck Schindlerpiste.