Hardtail build help....

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10-24-2005, 07:25 PM
Z

Hardtail build help....

So for next season I really, really, really want a hardtail. My bike gives me all types of shit, the chain won't stop slapping no matter what i do, etc. 3 inches of travel doesn't feel worth it. The bike will be mainly for XC riding although id like to be able to beat it up urban style if I ever stop being such a gaper. I'd like to build up somewhat light 25-35 pounds, and want it to be geared toward trail/XC riding more so than anything else. If it's frame only hopefully under 5-600 bucks. Could the more bike savvy hook me up with some suggestions?

My thoughts
Azonic Steelhead (stupid cheap, but maybe not light enough/trail style enough?)
Evil Sovereign/DOC/
Atomlab Trailpimp
Banshee Morphine
Banshe Scirocco (think this may be best for me?)

Also, is there anyway to get any of these bikes already built up, or you would just have to get lucky someone selling a used?

Thanks for the help...
10-24-2005, 07:47 PM
White Chocolate

every single frame that you listed except for maybe the scirocco would pretty much suck as a mainly xc bike. I would look at the santa cruz chameleon, cove stiffee, one of the hardtail freeride norco's (torrent/rampage), an older (early 2000's) kona chute/roast, or something along those lines. if you build it smart, you should be able to keep it around 30 lbs, and have it as an all around bike. I would look for a 5" fork like a fox vanilla or a manitou sherman flick for the front, and then go with something no heavier than the sun rhino lites xl for the wheelset. also, a 2.5 front /2.3 rear tire combo works well.

fyi, my hardtail is a 2001 kona roast with an oldschool dj 1 on the front before they got heavy, plus trailpimps which should be replaced with the rhino lites one of these days. it is around 32 pounds, and could be just under 30 if i had more money. It also rips the xc stuff around here perfectly, and would climb fine if the wheels were lighter and it wasn't a 15" frame :D
10-24-2005, 07:48 PM
crashnburn'd

My thoughts on a few (I know nothing about the Sovereign or Trail Pimp):

Azonic Steelhead - my friend rides a single speed Steelhead XC quite a bit, I bet it will be too small for you to ride XC comfortably

Evil Sovereign/DOC/ - again, being big, I don't think a DOC would be good for you XC wise. Never seen a Sovereign

Banshee Morphine - This is a tank, not a XC bike

Banshe Scirocco - you can buy big Banshees, don't know anyone who owns the bike

edit - WC has the same opinions, but is faster...
10-24-2005, 08:05 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Chocolate

every single frame that you listed except for maybe the scirocco would pretty much suck as a mainly xc bike. I would look at the santa cruz chameleon, cove stiffee, one of the hardtail freeride norco's (torrent/rampage), an older (early 2000's) kona chute/roast, or something along those lines.

Thanks WC, shows how much I know :rolleyes: . I really like the Scirocco though...

Crash - Hook me up with some suggestions, you know my steeze :tdo13:
10-24-2005, 08:09 PM
shirk

WC is right on the money.

I grabbed a Brodie frame for this same type of abuse early this season. Slapped a 5 inch Z1 on the front rhyno lites and nice light kevlar bead 2.4 conti tires (can't recall the name of them). It's a 1x9 set up in order to inflict pain on the climbs, gotta build the legs for ski season. Super fun bike to rip the singletrack and not have to worry about it breaking on any of the small local stunts or jumps.
10-25-2005, 07:15 AM
marshalolson

z- ride my xl steelhead and decide for yourself if it is too small.
you have 2" on me, and i put a 50mm stem on it. run 100mm and you will be set.
stupid cheap, and super bomber. 6lb frame. fuggin sick.

also, i had an old kona roast/chute. those are sweet and cheap as well.
you can only fit skinny (ie 2.3) tires in the rear though, which sucks on those super rigid alu frames.

go for a slightly heavier, way more burly, way better riding, steel frame for sure.
10-25-2005, 09:37 AM
bagtagley

If you can afford it, I'd say go for the Sovereign. The angles are just about right for trail riding, but it's short and low enough to be a great urban/freeride machine. The TT on the large is plenty long for climbing, and it has adjustable chainstays so you can shorten it for play, and lengthen it for XC type stuff. Just plan on running an uber long seatpost cause with a 15" seat tube, you're gonna need all you can get.

The guys at Evil claim to run them as dedicated trail bikes. I've been drooling over them since they were in the prototype phase, and eventually I'm gonna build one up as a do-it-all hardtail machine.
10-25-2005, 01:58 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagtagley

If you can afford it, I'd say go for the Sovereign. The angles are just about right for trail riding, but it's short and low enough to be a great urban/freeride machine. The TT on the large is plenty long for climbing, and it has adjustable chainstays so you can shorten it for play, and lengthen it for XC type stuff. Just plan on running an uber long seatpost cause with a 15" seat tube, you're gonna need all you can get.

The guys at Evil claim to run them as dedicated trail bikes. I've been drooling over them since they were in the prototype phase, and eventually I'm gonna build one up as a do-it-all hardtail machine.

Yeah the Sovereign sure is pretty, but could i build up to about 30lbs?

I think im in love with the Scirocco, 20 or 22in frame, seems like it would be perfect.....
10-25-2005, 05:33 PM
Z

Ok. change of plans. I want this. Any objections to this as a mainly XC bike?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/ima...atorFrame4.jpg

Surly Instigator.

20", Marshal that should work right?
10-25-2005, 06:17 PM
Darkside

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z

Ok. change of plans. I want this. Any objections to this as a mainly XC bike?

http://www.surlybikes.com/frames/ima...atorFrame4.jpg

Surly Instigator.

20", Marshal that should work right?

A nice frame at a nice price, but it is the piggiest of the pigs, 7lbs. in the 20" size. Santa Cruz Chameleon is a great way to go, I've owned 2.
10-25-2005, 07:06 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkside

A nice frame at a nice price, but it is the piggiest of the pigs, 7lbs. in the 20" size. Santa Cruz Chameleon is a great way to go, I've owned 2.

Yeah i like the Chameleon. I think I may have it narrowed down.

I think I may be sold on the steel though. Whats a pound or two anyways? :yourock:
10-25-2005, 07:18 PM
SkiingBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z

I'd like to build up somewhat light 25-35 pounds, and want it to be geared toward trail/XC riding more so than anything else.

Bwahahahahahaha!!!

(gasp!!!!)

Shit that's funny. I ride a hardtail, two in fact, and that's all I ride. So do a few buddies of mine. But 25-35 pounds? For a trail bike? Are you serious? 20-23 lbs is a XC trail bike, sub 20 if you're really core...anything over 25 is just a tank. If you're looking for a trail bike, go light, if you're looking for a DJ bike, get a separate bike.

The whole idea of a hardtail trail bike is to go light and go fast.
10-25-2005, 07:26 PM
Long Duck Dong

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiingBear

20-23 lbs is a XC trail bike, sub 20 if you're really core...anything over 25 is just a tank.

I'm curious what XC bikes you have in mind that are anywhere near under 20 pounds that aren't $6,000. The best Sugar Team Issues and RM Element Races are about 22-24, and those are $4,000 racing bikes (retail). My XC rig that I race on is a RM Instinct and is pretty light at 25.5. 25-30 is still very much in the XC trail bike range.
10-25-2005, 07:50 PM
bagtagley

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiingBear

anything over 25 is just a tank. If you're looking for a trail bike, go light, if you're looking for a DJ bike, get a separate bike.

The whole idea of a hardtail trail bike is to go light and go fast.

Anything under 25 pounds is a featherweight XC racer. Unless you're racing XC, shooting for the 27-32 pound range is perfectly reasonable...and sensible if you want tough and reliable. One of the real advantages of a hardtail is that you can build a bike that's tough enough for freeride and light enough for trail riding.

Go light is the idea behind a hardtail XC bike. Go fun and Go fast is the idea of a hardtail trail bike.

Z, the Chameleon is a great all arounder, but one thing I learned from owning that bike is that aluminum, gussets and square chain stays make for a very rough ride. You're on the right track looking at steel.
10-25-2005, 08:04 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by bagtagley

Z, the Chameleon is a great all arounder, but one thing I learned from owning that bike is that aluminum, gussets and square chain stays make for a very rough ride. You're on the right track looking at steel.

Yeah, it seems that's the concensus on aluminum to people ive talked too. I'll suck up the pound or two. I think my mind is made on the Instigator...
10-25-2005, 08:10 PM
Oarhead

Cove stiffee gets my vote. I have had one for 3 years. A buddy just got the new one (dead sexy in a beauty pink). I have raced on it, DJ'd, dropped up to 8ft (I am 210lbs) with questionable tranny's and done urban with absolutely no probs. You can stick a 2.5 rear tire on the old frames which gives enough squish to take the edge off the al ride. The geometry is absolutely perfect as a comprimise between freeride and XC. A vanilla 125 makes this a great biek for years to come

The chameleon is my second choice but it is more expensive and you wait longer. Strength wise...I think it is a toss up but I would give the edge to the cove. Durability was more of an concern than weight for me (height and weight make it so).

Edit: ok, surly it is. I have heard nothing but good things from friends who have ridden them. Nice bike, great company. Have a blast.
10-25-2005, 08:17 PM
marshalolson

fuck dude, you're a big guy, deal with the extra pound (30 vs 31 = not big)
if my fat ass can ride a 37lb hardtail trailbike, so can your skinny ass.

surly rocks.
go for it.
10-25-2005, 08:22 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

if my fat ass can ride a 37lb hardtail trailbike, so can your skinny ass.

Are you threatening me?

P.S. Check tommorow if you have a sec what the frame would cost through you guys. Found a sweet deal online but i've never heard of the company.
10-25-2005, 08:24 PM
marshalolson

let me know what you can get it for, and i'll let you know if we can match/beat it...

edit: or tell you how good of a deal it is, and that you should go for it.
10-25-2005, 08:28 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by marshalolson

let me know what you can get it for, and i'll let you know if we can match/beat it...

three fitty

Never heard of that company however, anyone know em?

Style me out with the yellow, and ill love you long time. :yourock:
10-25-2005, 08:32 PM
marshalolson

dude, i can for sure beat that. call me at the store/swing by tomorrow.
pm sent w/ digits
10-26-2005, 01:06 AM
White Chocolate

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiingBear

The whole idea of a hardtail trail bike is to go light and go fast.

your ideas are stupid for the rest of us that enjoy all aspects of riding. of course, i have never understood the joyless roadie mentality that so many xc riders have.
10-26-2005, 06:31 AM
m1e448

Quote:

Originally Posted by Long Duck Dong

I'm curious what XC bikes you have in mind that are anywhere near under 20 pounds that aren't $6,000. The best Sugar Team Issues and RM Element Races are about 22-24, and those are $4,000 racing bikes (retail). My XC rig that I race on is a RM Instinct and is pretty light at 25.5. 25-30 is still very much in the XC trail bike range.

HARDTAILs. Not FS bikes with pivots. I'll bet you a Fuel is lighter than a sugar or element, but a bike like a sub22(now enlightenment), a ti, or good steel frame can be that light. Oh yeah, and reynolds just came out with 953

Skiing bear. Stop cruising weightweenies.com

Z- my friend has and instigator and loves it dearly, he rides xc/fr on it but also has a chameleon for straight up xc. Go with the surly.
10-26-2005, 07:47 AM
Hugh Jass

Another thought, while you're looking at Surlys, is to consider the Karate Monkey 29er. I rode one most of this year and loved it. I've always been down with the steel hardtail. Mine is a 20", built for durability, not weight, and tips the scales at 30#. :)

You've got a couple inches on me, and I've never been as comfy on a bike as I am now. Not every shop stocks 29er parts, but there are plenty of options in Boulder/Denver.

You're welcome to spin on mine if you want. And there are always used frames and full builds for sale at www.mtbr.com
10-26-2005, 09:37 AM
homerjay

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiingBear

Bwahahahahahaha!!!

(gasp!!!!)

Shit that's funny. I ride a hardtail, two in fact, and that's all I ride. So do a few buddies of mine. But 25-35 pounds? For a trail bike? Are you serious? 20-23 lbs is a XC trail bike, sub 20 if you're really core...anything over 25 is just a tank. If you're looking for a trail bike, go light, if you're looking for a DJ bike, get a separate bike.

The whole idea of a hardtail trail bike is to go light and go fast.

Have you actually put them on a scale? My XC race bike weighted in at 25#, my road bike weighted in at 21#, actual weights. The only thing my XC race bike had on it that I wouldn't race with was the 2.3 tires I use for everyday riding, doubt I'd lose a pound or more dropping to my 2.1 race tires.

Z, shame you missed veloswap, you could have walked out of there with a sweet ride for little money.
10-27-2005, 12:12 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by homerjay

Z, shame you missed veloswap, you could have walked out of there with a sweet ride for little money.

ya know i totally wanked on that, i meant to stop by that too. :nonono2:

Hugh, i checked that one out, but i dont think 29 is my style. Truthfully my style is training wheels, but they dont make mt bikes like that. :biggrin:

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, much appreciated when you don't know anything like me. Think im gonna go with that Surly, looking like a pretty sweet price on it. Got some fork suggestions? thinkin 110-120ish?
10-27-2005, 01:05 PM
Particle

All this hardtail/steel talk has me thinking about these guys again...drool...

http://www.chromagbikes.com/

Might have to be a winter project...hmmmmm...
10-27-2005, 01:34 PM
CS

Hardtails are fun. Like, jumping on a trampoline with a girl in a bikini fun.
10-27-2005, 04:26 PM
yesIsaidyes

If you are not racing (i.e. looking for comfort and not stupid light) I would go for the Kona Explosif, there is a REALLY good deal on them here. It is a cult classic trail bike and the new feature of being able to convert it to a single speed makes it that much better - Konas are awesome technical trail bikes...
10-27-2005, 04:33 PM
yesIsaidyes

Quote:

Originally Posted by Particle

All this hardtail/steel talk has me thinking about these guys again...drool...

http://www.chromagbikes.com/

Might have to be a winter project...hmmmmm...

nice...but ugliest head tube gussets I have ever seen - actually I have seen those before on like an '86 Kuwahara dirt jumper or something...
10-28-2005, 04:59 PM
flip

My hardtail is a chameleon, built up for trail/XC and the occasional urban abuse. Never weighed it, but it's probably under 30lbs. It is my favorite bike of any I've ever owned, and my second chameleon. They are fantastically versatile frames. Relatively light, strong enough, and really natural geometry (for me).

The only bike i would consider replacing it with is an Evil Sovereign, which is suprisingly close in weight, much stronger, has more mud clearance, standover, and better single-speed setup. It also costs quite a bit more.

I think both of those are about perfect for what you're describing.
10-30-2005, 02:56 PM
White Chocolate

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z

Got some fork suggestions? thinkin 110-120ish?

Fox vanilla if you can afford it, manitou sherman flick for $280 from jenson usa if you can't. act quick
10-30-2005, 10:45 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Chocolate

Fox vanilla if you can afford it, manitou sherman flick for $280 from jenson usa if you can't. act quick

think im gonna do the marz mx comp. try to keep it more trail styley and keep the weight down. plus im a pansy. plus im gonna start it off with vbrakes most likely.
11-05-2005, 05:44 PM
Particle

Z did you get your frame yet? Curious about it...I'm still thinking of picking that one off eBay.
11-06-2005, 07:14 PM
Z

Quote:

Originally Posted by Particle

Z did you get your frame yet? Curious about it...I'm still thinking of picking that one off eBay.

Nope not yet, but VERY soon.

That bike on ebay is money, id be all over it if it was a little bigger..

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