Touring Boots Vs Alpine Boots

Id like to get a dedicated touring setup for the spring season here in the PNW. It will not be used when the resort chairs are spinning, but in late april through june i would like to take advantage of what i have around me to explore. Ive been using CAST 1.0, with alpine boots with a tech toe for a few years and after some long days out bushwacking with multiple shoe-boot-skin transitions im ready to just bite the bullet and get a used lightweight touring setup intended for easier travel up, and milking the turns down. My real question is about the boots- I have a super high arch and my shoe size is 11-11.5, but my boot size is 27.5 with a 28 intuition prowrap stuffed in (a proper insole shrinks my foot a full size). I cant decide if a tight/dialed fit in a touring boot is super important, or if it will be OK to go with a slightly looser fit like a 28/28.5 because its mostly about comfort on the up, not a performance fit for shredding down. But i also dont want rubbing and blisters.... I was hoping to buy used everything, including boots, otherwise i would just do the normal program of going into Evo and letting the bootfitter set me up. Is a dialed, "proper" fit in a dedicated lightweight touring boot just as important as in a dedicated Alpine boot, or is it almost preferable to have some level of slop?

Personally, I try to get the heel and ankle areas tight in my touring boots and as close as possible to my alpine boots. I like to have more room in the toes, partly because my toes slide forward while walking on flat ground, and partly because it's just more comfortable when my feet are hot and sweaty.

Realistically, I find touring boots to universally suck when it comes to fitting my foot, so it's all a compromise. They either give me blisters, cramp my foot, or ski like shit. Or, fairly frequently, all of the above.

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If you have an alpine boot that works I would look at that brand and see if they have a touring boot. I've had a few AT boots and none have fit great. If I was to invest again I'd try the ZeroG considering how well my Cochise fit.

when I looked for AT boots i wanked around and asked a lot of people on Tech talk high arch/ wide forefoot was Merccury/ Vulcan back in the day and got a great fit buying on-line, but seeing all the mismatches I don't know if I could recommend it LOL !

I DID NOT up size so I use same size boot for alpine as for AT my thot being I didnot want the food moving around in a loose AT boot

I think you want a really tight fit in the ankle/heel so your foot doesn't move while walking and you can ski, but you need more toe room - possibly more length - for touring. I have skied Hawx XTD for Touring and Hawx Ultra for alpine for years now which have the same last. What alpine boot do you have?

Get a zero G pro tour, you might be able to sneak into the 27 since it fits longer than other touring boots.

I've always been a "one boot" guy, in a 50/50 boot. I just picked up a more touring oriented version of the 50/50 boot I already have, and I sized it the same. Hard saying since I've never upsized a touring boot, but I can't imagine I'd want the extra room even for the uphill. Feet get hot, and sweat, and a bunch of movement in the boot leads to blisters. I have a pretty specific buckle strategy for walking that keeps my foot from moving around but also allows the cuff to go through it's ROM when walking. YMMV

Another thing to ponder is, how light is light enough for the type of touring you want to do? For me, I'm in a 130 Lange XT3 as a DD which is a 50/50 boot. And it's basically fine for me and how I ski and tour for most of the stuff I do. I'm not doing crazy big touring missions but wanted something that could handle a bit longer days and hut trips and such. Found a great deal on the same size of 130 XT3 Tour Pro here on TGR, and they'll save me like 300g per foot which ain't a HUGE amount but also ain't nothing, and they'll probably ski well enough while being a marked improvement for uphill. I personally can't imagine wanting to go into a super-light dancing slipper type boot, ever. Not for my skiing.

I am in a Dalbello Lupo AX 120 from a few years ago (navy blue/orange) with a 28 Intuition Prowrap liner w/ booster strap. Fiddlefucking around with removing/replacing the tongues, combined with fiddlefucking around around with CAST for every transition kind of sucks. I want a boot that i can bushwack on dirt, walk on dirt trails a mile or two, and easily step into/outof tech bindings for spring days where the first 2000' and 3 miles is mixed skinning and hiking to get into a bowl with skiable snow for 1000' laps. I just want a set-and-forget boot/binding combo that is lightweight and is logistically easy to use and abuse.

The main draw for these spring tours is the adventure of it all, good skiing is just a bonus if i can make that happen, but downhill skiing on enjoyable terrain usually ends up being about 3 minutes or less of a 6+ hour day. Most time is spent going up a shitty partially melted out approach, or survival skiing/shwacking my way out the same approach. so im not too worried about being in a boot i cant DRIVE.

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I am in a Dalbello Lupo AX 120 from a few years ago (navy blue/orange) with a 28 Intuition Prowrap liner w/ booster strap. Fiddlefucking around with removing/replacing the tongues, combined with fiddlefucking around around with CAST for every transition kind of sucks. I want a boot that i can bushwack on dirt, walk on dirt trails a mile or two, and easily step into/outof tech bindings for spring days where the first 2000' and 3 miles is mixed skinning and hiking to get into a bowl with skiable snow for 1000' laps. I just want a set-and-forget boot/binding combo that is lightweight and is logistically easy to use and abuse. The main draw for these spring tours is the adventure of it all, good skiing is just a bonus if i can make that happen, but downhill skiing on enjoyable terrain usually ends up being about 3 minutes or less of a 6+ hour day. Most time is spent going up a shitty partially melted out approach, or survival skiing/shwacking my way out the same approach. so im not too worried about being in a boot i cant DRIVE.

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If your Dalbellos work, perhaps investigate their dedicated line of touring boots? The fit should be similar, I would think.

Comfort is the most important thing. It needs to fit your feet and not bother them over long days, and this is hard to get right. As for skiability, any boot that fits well enough to not bother your feet and is in the correct weight class for what you want (beefy or lightweight) should ski well enough *for that category* these days.
For me I have 1-2 mondo size larger touring boots than inbounds.

Yer basically describing me.
Hawx 130 for alpine, and Scarpa F1LT for bc.
Even in the bottomless mushy crap, leg-breaking shit I ski today, my Praxis BC’s, ATK’s with the Scarpas were fine enough.
And if the conditions are powder or corn, it’s great.
Heel hold is by far the most important thing. Then toe space. When fitting, put a tow dam on, and put spacers between your toes etc. to make space. I had a fitter once call it yoga toes.
I’m probably gonna get the new zip fits for next season to really lock in the heel fit.
Find a really lightweight boot that fits your foot.
Greg L at EVO can help you

Dalbello Quantum is like touring on air compared to my Cochise in walk mode. Worth it .


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Originally Posted by californiagrown

I am in a Dalbello Lupo AX 120 from a few years ago (navy blue/orange) with a 28 Intuition Prowrap liner w/ booster strap. Fiddlefucking around with removing/replacing the tongues, combined with fiddlefucking around around with CAST for every transition kind of sucks. I want a boot that i can bushwack on dirt, walk on dirt trails a mile or two, and easily step into/outof tech bindings for spring days where the first 2000' and 3 miles is mixed skinning and hiking to get into a bowl with skiable snow for 1000' laps. I just want a set-and-forget boot/binding combo that is lightweight and is logistically easy to use and abuse.

The main draw for these spring tours is the adventure of it all, good skiing is just a bonus if i can make that happen, but downhill skiing on enjoyable terrain usually ends up being about 3 minutes or less of a 6+ hour day. Most time is spent going up a shitty partially melted out approach, or survival skiing/shwacking my way out the same approach. so im not too worried about being in a boot i cant DRIVE.

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I feel ya... I went from Dalbello Lupo Pro HD to a ZGTP for most of my touring, and for my foot, they work great with minimal adjustment. I just needed one small punch at the 5th met head. They also have a lower instep than the Lupo, so if you're maxed out in the Lupo that might be a more difficult problem to solve.

I still love the Lupos--they are my DD inbounds, and give me the option to tour if I'm up at the pass and the lifts aren't spinning. I still use CAST to but it's a similar use case--I can throw one pair of skis and boots in the car and not have regrets when plane change or an opportunity comes along.

Pulling out the tongues is a bit of a pain but but there is no better walk mode than NO tongues and some folks just left them out of the Vulcan 7/24 anyway but i liked em, I tended to leave them in on short yo yo's and take em out for the long tour

Chopping the bottom buckle off the lupo makes the tongue swap way easier. I'm working on a DIY quick lock lupo tongue attachment with a single throw for ankle and cuff.

That could be a sweet mod, especially if the buckles have a little more throw. That could make it super ez. Ive taken my toe buckles off but its still a task to grab the ladders on the instep and cuff.
Im not sure why they didnt make the walk/ski mode switch grab on to a bar , rather than just rest on a ledge. That could allow them to be skied without tongues on occasion like vulcans and also allow a lighter tongue, and thus boot, and get forward stiffness both from the tongue and cuff. On those meadowskipping days it was quick and ez to just leave my tongues in my pack and bang out some laps

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The bar hook would lock forward flex and ruin the "3 piece" effect (which I like). I've got a Lupo Air (which has a flex block to be skied with no tongue), but I took out that block and use a tongue. I've got the touring weight down to 1200g.My super project is going bare bones on a lupo carbon to see if I can get touring weight at 1kg. Then an easy attached tongue and I'm in an alpine boot on the way down. The lupo is a great platform for mods.Touring without the front part of the cuff makes the range of motion crazy good, even with a wrap (the wrap can just open as you push forward).

@californiagrown you said you're in the PNW---can you get to Evo and just try on a bunch of boots? There are other good shops too, of course. I said I size up, but my feet are US 13-14 depending on shoe brand and my resort boots are 28, touring in 29 or 30 (29.5 or 30.5 in Scarpa)

Yeah i could go to evo (its where i bought my current boots), i was just hoping to buy something used for cheapish as i would only be using these boots for the 6-8 times per year i actually get out touring (1-2 times preseason, and then 4-6 times post season). Ill probably just have to bite the bullet and get the boots new... the reason for my original question was that if most people were sizing up on their lightwieght touring boots, then it would seem getting an absolutely dialed fit isnt as important as with a resort boot, and so i could likely buy used with a little slop, bake the liners for a decent fit and be good... something i would never do with a resort boot due to always needing bootwork done on mine.

Good to get feedback on how everyone wants their touring boots to fit compared to their resort boots. Appreciate it all.

Try on the new ones then buy used.... People don't seem to like buying used boots, I've basically had to give away the few pairs I recently sold

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Originally Posted by JRainey

The bar hook would lock forward flex and ruin the "3 piece" effect (which I like). I've got a Lupo Air (which has a flex block to be skied with no tongue), but I took out that block and use a tongue. I've got the touring weight down to 1200g.My super project is going bare bones on a lupo carbon to see if I can get touring weight at 1kg. Then an easy attached tongue and I'm in an alpine boot on the way down. The lupo is a great platform for mods.Touring without the front part of the cuff makes the range of motion crazy good, even with a wrap (the wrap can just open as you push forward).

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Ah i see. Good info. Good luck. Im interested

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I buy used boots but put a new liner in them.Just bought some almost brand new 2019 Vulcans. Debating between an Intuition, or trying the Zipfit GFT

Vulcan is a great shell but the liner sucked dead goats so keep in mind a lot of people had trouble with the instep on Vulcan I already have a high instep so an Intuition with a tongue didnt work but pwrwrap was fine

Sizing up is foot in boot dependent- ie if you are running 0.5-1.0cm space behind the heel in a shell fit (liner out) with toes touching the front in an alpine set up, then sizing up to 1.0-2.0cm shell fit would likely make a lot of sense. If your alpine set up is already 1.0-2.0cm spacing, then sizing up in a touring boot beyond that doesn't seem necessary. If you are running a gap like 2.5+cm then your boots are too big.

I've been using a Vulcan already and a Mercury before that for 8 seasons ;)I've been using an Dalbello/Intuition in them first and then a Full Tilt/Intuition, both wraps.I have a high-ish instep, stock liner was garbage, and an Intuition Pro Tour, not so great.So yes, you have a point, probably a tongue liner is not the best idea, I guess I'll just order a new Intuition Tour Wrap.

yes the Mercury followed by the Vulcan the liner was SO bad I often wondered who at Dynafit got paid off to buy the Palau liners ?


How could they sell us this shit that chi chi looking piece of suede on the instep was really just the back of a piece of naugahyde


In comparison Scarpa could buy intuition liners, real dynafit lowtech fittings for their Maestrale, the local ski store sells out 2 complete orders and scarpa appears to still be making money ?

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Originally Posted by stuntmanbo

I buy used boots but put a new liner in them.Just bought some almost brand new 2019 Vulcans. Debating between an Intuition, or trying the Zipfit GFT

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Zip
Oh, I’m saying this as a many times, and current Intuition user. 2 seasons in my zips for alpine, and I wanna replace the Intuitions in my Scarpas.
Mofro has the boot sizing thing right, I believe. My scarpas are the same size as my Hawx, both have the big toe blown out. I think the new Zips will fit in the Scarpas but prolly not the GFT, ( w/o removing all the cork goo), so then what would be the point.
You want less than Zero slop.
Try on some new ones, shop for used, get new liners. Or buy new.

^^^ Ive heard zips are a huuuge PITA to put on. That doesnt bode well with my low tolerance for fiddlefactor on-mountain. Are zipfits not as difficult to deal with as ive heard? Fiddlefuckery is one thing at the car first thing in the morning (as shitty as it may still be), but if they are as tough to get on as ive heard, that would really punish the user if shoe-boot transitions are needed in not-ideal situations. then again, maybe im just scarred from some recent recent adventures/poor decisions of where and when to transition from shoes to skiboots/skis. Also, arent zipfits noticably heavier than intuition? When swapping liners, i always noticed an immediate weight savings from the intuition liners. Are you just THAT sold on the fit of zipfits that you think any other deficiencies are minor in comparison? Ive wrung the last bit out of my current powerwraps (200+ days and 3.5 bakes) so i am in the market for new liners this summer...

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Originally Posted by californiagrown

^^^ Ive heard zips are a huuuge PITA to put on. That doesnt bode well with my low tolerance for fiddlefactor on-mountain. Are zipfits not as difficult to deal with as ive heard? Fiddlefuckery is one thing at the car first thing in the morning (as shitty as it may still be), but if they are as tough to get on as ive heard, that would really punish the user if shoe-boot transitions are needed in not-ideal situations. then again, maybe im just scarred from some recent recent adventures/poor decisions of where and when to transition from shoes to skiboots/skis. Also, arent zipfits noticably heavier than intuition? When swapping liners, i always noticed an immediate weight savings from the intuition liners. Are you just THAT sold on the fit of zipfits that you think any other deficiencies are minor in comparison? Ive wrung the last bit out of my current powerwraps (200+ days and 3.5 bakes) so i am in the market for new liners this summer...

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Yes, they are a pain in the ass without a doubt, and yes, the fit is worth it.
The new espresso liner which is coming out for next season, (apparently), is going to have a new inside material that allows you to keep the Zip in the shell, (they told me that when I emailed them about a Zip for my Scarpas), but I hate buying anything in it’s first year, so I’ll let somebody else be the beta tester. In this case in particular, it’s a brand new material. They’re putting in the liner and the thing I love about the Zips is the heel hold, and I can’t help but feel it’s going to affect the heel hold.
You should probably get the intuition. They are really nice. They’re light and they’re warm.
The zip fit thing is like the first time you taste some really good coffee, food, wine, or you have a really good experience, and then you’re kind of ruined to go back to everything else.

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Originally Posted by plugboots

Yes, they are a pain in the ass without a doubt, and yes, the fit is worth it. The new espresso liner which is coming out for next season, (apparently), is going to have a new inside material that allows you to keep the Zip in the shell, (they told me that when I emailed them about a Zip for my Scarpas), but I hate buying anything in it&rsquo;s first year, so I&rsquo;ll let somebody else be the beta tester. In this case in particular, it&rsquo;s a brand new material. They&rsquo;re putting in the liner and the thing I love about the Zips is the heel hold, and I can&rsquo;t help but feel it&rsquo;s going to affect the heel hold. You should probably get the intuition. They are really nice. They&rsquo;re light and they&rsquo;re warm. The zip fit thing is like the first time you taste some really good coffee, food, wine, or you have a really good experience, and then you&rsquo;re kind of ruined to go back to everything else.

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My understanding of the new espresso liner is that it&#39;s intuition type material in the toe but zipfit cork in the heel. So you get the hold and customization in the heel with the warmth and lightness of the intuition. If even mostly true, I&#39;m all in.</p>
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And as far as getting into a zipfit, it&#39;s not that bad. As a matter of fact, I started doing the world cup entry into my ZGTP&#39;s even with my intuition liner because it&#39;s easier than getting in with the traditional method with that boot.</p>

If you ski an intuition inbounds don't bother with a zipfit, fiddle factor, they get wet, they're heavy and they dont really fit that well in most touring shells in my opinion anyway.

Just go try on some boots and see what fits and then buy a used pair, an ax120 with power wraps isn't crazy performance to recreate in a touring boot either.