Atk raiders inbounds

First time posting in about 10 years or at least it seems that long…

Wanted to see if anyone here has actually preferred riding their tech binding/light at setup in the resort as much as I have?

Ive got a 178 camox with a atk raider 13 with a freeride spacer and tecnica peak boot. Its a pretty light setup I intially picked up for fitness laps and occasional forays into the steeper terrain in nh, but im finding myself reaching for it on resort days too.

Im finding the lightness of the gear and minimal suspension in the binding give really good snow feel. The skis are so quick and easy to throw around. Its more finesse skiing, lots of turns and playing on the edges. I can still ski fast and arc some big turns with confidence. Definitely a compromise when snow gets deeper and more 3d. The peak boot just doesnt offer the support i want for skiing fast through crud, etc. but for lazy resort laps this setup is hard to pass up for my stiffer, heavier setup.

My go to alpine setup is a roxa r3 130 with a shift on an elan ripstick 96 black. Still an easy ski for me. Like this setup, but definitely not as lively and playful as the at gear. The ‘snow feel’ isnt quite there. Theres a deadened sensation.. i could go on but i have a feeling im going to catch all kinds of shit for this post already ha!

Anyway, wondering if anyone else has had the same experience with the raider/freeraider setup (I suspect alot of what Im enjoying is coming from the binding). I understand din release values, etc..

Also now thinking about picking up the tecnica zero g tour pro boot for a little more support, but maintaining the lightweight feel. Pairing that with a freeraider 13 or 15. Not sure if Id go a little bigger with the ski for 50/50 resort days or go a little lighter for longer tours and bigger bc lines.

Curious to hear if anyones had similar experience with the freeraider/atk setup inbounds..

Honestly, yes. I have an older pair of heavy skis and they were more fun with MTNs vs Shifts. Maybe this is a shift problem.
I’m happy these days on tech bindings everywhere, only caveat being release characteristics, which i haven’t been bitten by yet. There’s more to say but I’m going to bed….


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Not a fan of telling others what’s right or wrong, do whatever you want. But I am fan of knowing the real risks-
https://skimo.co/tech-binding-release-testing
I have heard rumor but not seen data, that the incidence if tib fib fractures has gone up since the rise of people skiing pin bindings in bounds. And supposedly these are ugly fractures with lots of fragments and tibial plateau involvement.

Light gear with minimal suspension is exactly why I hate it.

This is the equivalent of the guy who rides a fully rigid mountain bike. It's less comfortable and substantially slower.

But to each their own. You do you.

All feedback I’d expect.

I think the phenomenon im experiencing may be specifically related to the atk freeraider-spacer-peak boot combo.

I think the atk has some suspension and release values. I understand the release values are not alpine iso-din equvalent.

Mostly just curious if theres anyone else out there enjoying the light gear inbounds.

The mtb analogy is valid, but I would liken skiing on the atk seteup more to riding a superlight carbon xc bike. Light, playful, go long distances. Whereas your average trail/enduro rig is heavier, powers through rough terrain, but can feel ‘flat’ or ‘deadening’ with a lot of suspension.

Sometimes i guess its nice to really feel the trail.

Well I would also say the R3 Roxa probably does not give great feedback as an ultra stiff 3-piece out of Grilamid...have you considered trying an inbounds boot with a softer flex? Elan's are pretty snappy but probably not the most suspension.

I had a FR setup (Voyager 12 actually) on a QST 98 for a springtime side country setup. Skied it a few days in the resort and enjoyed how it skied. Had one fall where it released just as it should have. I no longer ski it in the resort though. I always thought that it breaking was inevitable and I have plenty of inbounds skis.
I'm 188 lbs and am in a Cochise boot.

I generally like being on lighter gear these days - my knees aren't ever 100% healthy and just having less weight hanging from my legs on the chairlift is nice. For full send I still prefer my Alpine setup, but for cruising with kids, night skiing, or powder laps I'm happy on my touring gear.

I have ridden pins inbounds quite a bit. The problem for me is the boots. While they’re comfy, they take a real beating in bounds. I’ve sloppified a couple pairs of touring boots in the last few years, and I think the resort skiing is largely to blame.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Light gear with minimal suspension is exactly why I hate it.

This is the equivalent of the guy who rides a fully rigid mountain bike. It's less comfortable and substantially slower.

But to each their own. You do you.

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^^^ Pay attention

This guy has the answer

You might not agree, but then you're wrong. Have another espresso and keep putsing about on the hill

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Light gear with minimal suspension is exactly why I hate it.

This is the equivalent of the guy who rides a fully rigid mountain bike. It's less comfortable and substantially slower.

But to each their own. You do you.

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Toast has spoken.

Pin bindings inbounds are probably OK if you don't weigh much and ski that setup only on pow days.

Otherwise, I agree with what's already been said about potential release issues (injuries) and wearing out lightweight gear quickly.

How many of you posting have skied the freeraider with the spacer?

Toast is right, and that’s prolly one of the better analogies I’ve seen lately. I love my hardtail single speed, and sometimes it’s pretty cool to use my 1kg boots etc. inbounds. BFD
Oh, I use the spacer.

I disagree with all of you jongs.

found a video of OP skiing

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DDLuv...5iYW5qbHBlbjZz

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I will admit to owning and riding a rigid steel [emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]’er. And maybe i need to get out more on the heavy ski stuff to stay in tune with it….



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Dann. Brutal crowd.

Woah. Chill. You still mad you were caught night putting with the Dean’s Daughter?

Pretty sure one of the hood regulars got a spiral tib on pins on the hill back a few years

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Originally Posted by riff

I will admit to owning and riding a rigid steel [emoji638][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji637]]]’er. And maybe i need to get out more on the heavy ski stuff to stay in tune with it….



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As a former rigid riding cross country racer, I can fully confirm that my 50lb E-Bike is vastly more fun to smash downhill on.

My touring ski is a 191 Renegade with Duke PT16's for reference. :D

Excuse my jongness, I don’t even have a dentist’s license. Wouldn’t a simple tib/fib fracture heal better than a ligament injury? According to that study, tech bindings are safer for ligaments. Sure, a freak spiral fracture or tibial plateau fracture is more severe.

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I’ll do a few laps on my freeraider setups on the lifts to dial in boot/liner mods and in smooth conditions (groomers, pow, really light crud) they’re fun as shit. And that’s coming from heavy metal skis/pivots/lange rx[emoji637][emoji639][emoji[emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]][emoji640][emoji6[emoji640][emoji638]]]s. I don’t do it much to save the gear and not risk my old ass legs.

Yo Mitch!
Welcome back.

Don't let these jongs bring you down.
If you like it, you like it.

It’s a free country and if it works it works but not for me. There are also people riding steeper and rougher trails with their hard tails than I ride on my long travel full suspension bike.

Yes, multiple skis with the moment version of ATKs. Doesn’t ski near as well. If you like the light weight of tech bindings/skis there are still better bindings for skiing. Tectons and Kingpins both ski much better at sub alpine binding weight. Shit, marker alpinists ski better than ATK raiders IMO, but just don’t have the ease of use for the uphill.

sure it is light, but the setup has little to no elasticity - meaning that everything has to be absorbed by your knees (bending your knees to absorb or though the bones dissipating the energy). Sure, it is direct / precise, but the ski and bindings do literally nothing of the work of smoothing out the terrain.

My guess is that a progressively (type -4 to -6 from center) mounted ski with low swing weight and some heft to it will ski similarly with a bit of speed wrt be able to throw them around, but be about a million times easier on your knees as well as wear you out less through the day. Soaking everything up and keeping control of flappy light skis takes a lot of effort too, especially compared to heavier skis that just plows on through. And, the elasticity in the binding helps you being able to keep the ski tracking too - the rigid bike vs full suspension analogy is apt.

And yes, I have a skied ATKs with FR-spacers quite a bit. I ended up going back to Vipecs/Tectons to get more elasticity - my knees just became so damned sore that it was not worth the 200gr saved for me.

lastly - you do you. I do not really understand what feedback you are expecting to get - if it is confirmation that it is a great idea then a touring forum/thread might be a better source :)

I appreciate light weight gear at all times and don’t find much value in heavy bindings just because they are heavy. That said, I’m not a fan of pins inbounds and I think proper lightweight boots are much less forgiving inbounds (or anywhere else). It’s good to get some practice on them and I know people that are good enough to ski well with light boots and pins in all conditions but I’m not one of them.

My hesitance with pins inbounds is the higher chance for a spiral fracture. I dismissed it as an unlikely but possible event until I had an avalanche student get balled up on an easy groomer on their way back to the trailhead and end up with a tib/fib break, a lot of pain, and some lingering complications. I don’t know if the tech bindings contributed to this break but the problem suddenly became more real and less of a theoretical possibility. I’m not here to tell anyone what right and wrong is, just to mention that the hazard seems to be real and you’ll have to decide for yourself if that’s ok.

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Originally Posted by mitch_cumstein

How many of you posting have skied the freeraider with the spacer?

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I ride a c-raider, shimmed to minimize ramp angle, no brakes, and a freeride spacer. They are suuuper solid, even inbounds. I'd still rather have an alpine binder in the jankiest of conditions, but even then as soon as I start skiing I tend to forget I'm on pins.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mitch_cumstein

I disagree with all of you jongs.

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I have a set on my touring skis, definitely a good skiing touring binding, but everyone saying stuff you don't want to hear is right. It's still a major compromise. That could work for you, but I have zero interest in skiing my in bounds, even with my kids.

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Originally Posted by kid-kapow

And yes, I have a skied ATKs with FR-spacers quite a bit. I ended up going back to Vipecs/Tectons to get more elasticity - my knees just became so damned sore that it was not worth the 200gr saved for me.

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That's pretty much it. Fritschi Vipecs and Tectons have elasticity. Shift has elasticity. ATK - nope

delete -duplicate

Bitd i ripped a few dynafits out at high speed in sketchy spots. Never again, but i intrigued with the atks for bc skiing.

Think about this: what are you all skiing on your touring gear? Perfect, untracked, light pow? When i tour (on the same setup) im usually skiing new england jank. I think this puts alot more stress on the gear and risk of injury for all the aforementioned reasons than lapping the resort. The logic behind not skiing pins inbounds doesnt really make sense.

I think skiing touring gear well is much more difficult than skiing heavy alpine gear. Maybe thats part of why im liking it. Its a new feeling and you have to be really dialed in your technique to arc good, fast turns.

Im mostly only skiing groomers and easy bump lines in the reaort. If its a pow day and i expect a lot of cut up snow im reaching for a full alpine setup. If im looking to bomb around with a crew im grabbing my alpine setup.

Point of the thread wasnt really to ask if its safe or better or a good or bad idea. Im digging crusing around the resort on the at setup. Its kind of made skiing fun again after 35 years. Its also just fun to talk about the feeling. I like feeling the snow, the feedback, the minimal material between my feet and the mountain. I’m not skiing shitty. Im ripping and its wicked fun…gotta be someone else out there…

Is there a max lifetime of alpine vs touring bindings, like in terms of number of runs down a hill and assuming bad snow but regular binding maintenance?

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Originally Posted by ma8103

Is there a max lifetime of alpine vs touring bindings, like in terms of number of runs down a hill and assuming bad snow but regular binding maintenance?

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I’ve never seen sensible quantification of this, but if I had to make an estimate based on using dozens of each to end of life, a high quality alpine binding might be reliable for 1000 days, whereas pin bindings 100 - 300 depending on the model.

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Originally Posted by kootenayskier

I’ve never seen sensible quantification of this, but if I had to make an estimate based on using dozens of each to end of life, a high quality alpine binding might be reliable for 1000 days, whereas pin bindings 100 - 300 depending on the model.

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Wild. In terms of distance descended, would you think it’s more like 10000 runs to 500 runs? Im assuming 10 runs per alpine day and 2-3 per touring day

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ma8103

Wild. In terms of distance descended, would you think it’s more like 10000 runs to 500 runs? Im assuming 10 runs per alpine day and 2-3 per touring day

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Thinking about it in terms of runs doesn't seem very useful.

1) touring bindings see stress on both the climb and descent, whereas alpine bindings only really see stress on the descent.

2) at least for my personal use, touring bindings see a lot more "low stress" snow. I'm mostly touring to find soft snow and I'm successful more often than not. But my alpine bindings spend plenty of time hammering through chunky, icy shit. The "average" run that each binding sees is quite different.

3) touring boots are floppy noodles and the skis are lightweight twigs. The amount of force I can put into a binding with a proper alpine boot and a heavy alpine ski is a lot different than what I'm achieving in my touring boots on touring skis.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by toast2266

Thinking about it in terms of runs doesn't seem very useful.

1) touring bindings see stress on both the climb and descent, whereas alpine bindings only really see stress on the descent.

2) at least for my personal use, touring bindings see a lot more "low stress" snow. I'm mostly touring to find soft snow and I'm successful more often than not. But my alpine bindings spend plenty of time hammering through chunky, icy shit. The "average" run that each binding sees is quite different.

3) touring boots are floppy noodles and the skis are lightweight twigs. The amount of force I can put into a binding with a proper alpine boot and a heavy alpine ski is a lot different than what I'm achieving in my touring boots on touring skis.

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Those are good considerations. I’m thinking in terms of the thread intent of using tech bindings at a resort, primarily downhill and getting at something like a standard fatigue life given the same conditions.

Uphill definitely changes that, as does the noodly boots and skis, but I was trying to ignore those in my question.

Almost all touring parts wear faster than alpine parts. Especially when being hammered on more aggressively inbounds through moguls etc. The toe and heel pins of the bindings wear. The toe and heel tech inserts in the boot wear. Any off the shelf tech compatible boot is going to have a walk mode, and that wears and develops play. So I don't really get the concept of skiing tech gear inbounds. Sure, the initial outlay is higher, but your touring gear will last way longer if you use an alpine set up at the hill. So it doesn't really cost any more in the long run, and you are using the best tool for the job all the time.