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Anyone know what the differences are between the 110, 120, and 130? I'll be swapping the liner, so I'm mostly looking to save money :)
Tried the boot on and with an Intuition Tour Wrap they work for me much better than the Cochise I've been using. I have a very low volume instep and a medium heel with a bone spur. I always struggle with heel hold due to too much instep space on the lateral side and the narrow heels of the Atomic boots never got along with me well.
Bigger number is bigger better.
higher number equals stiffer flex. Other than that each one gets a nicer liner.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
Damn I'm not stupid ok, jesus this place is weak now. Most of the time the difference between a 120 and a 130 is the liner, colorway and nothing else. Sometimes the 120 will have worse buckles, a worse powerstrap etc. Almost always a 120 and 130 have identical shells made of identical material - sometimes the cuff material will be downgraded on a 120 (e.g. carbon infused vs not for a grilamid touring binding).
These are the questions I'm asking.
Is the shell the same material?
Is the cuff the same material?
Do the buckles also use threaded bolts or do the lower versions riveted?
Maybe you need a second opinion cuz actualy that ^^ was not the question you asked the 1st time , this is a print medium so you have to use your words ( said in condescending tone of voice )Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
You obviously haven't been here very longQuote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
onk will most likely have insight into this despite not being in his portfolio.
If you don’t want us to be weak, how about you’re an idiot and 99% of boot shells are different between a 110-120-130. So the answer is flex.
I guess were all pissed off today...me included
Per the solly website compare tool the foothold on the 130 is exceptional, but the 120 is merely great. If I was buying boots again, I would much rather be exceptional than great.
holy crap, thank you for this gem of an observation. It made my snicker uncontrollably at work today - something I needed after the last few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Coastal
hm, the question in the post seemed pretty straight forward to me - so unsure why people replied as they did. Oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
According to Evo all the shells are the same - the specs are all listed identically - and the buckles seem the same too. If that is the case you might as well go for the cheapest one if you are going to replace the liners and strap - unless you want a particular color.
As mentioned already One Nerdy Kid where ever he is would be nerdy on the minutia
Because this information is easily obtained with an internet search and does not require specific knowledge, nor personal experience - IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
And frankly, if someone is making their flex decision based on cost, I don't think boot nuance is that important to them.
This is not something I am emotionally equipped to believe. If true, this is literally the "one small trick" ski boot manufacturers do not want you to know.Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
Quote:
Originally Posted by XXX-er
ok. I am sure he feels properly chastised.Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
While I hate threads where people won't bother to put in a minimum of effort to figure out said things in advance, I did not find this thread annoying. Perhaps it is because it made me wonder, as well as the aforementioned gem which made me laugh out loud. I have no idea if Evo's info is accurate or just marketing.
if you can find that in anything the OP has written in this thread than your reading skills far surpasses mine. I will strive to do better in the future. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by XtrPickels
As mentioned upthread - there is usually some stated difference in materials between the different models. If these are actual or just marketing speak is above my pay grade to know. Quick, somebody get some dirt on onenerdykid!Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastside
One Nerdy Kid will appear upon the Tech talk when its time for you to know
in any case is buddy stupid ... inquiring minds want to know ?
lol, why should I be commenting on a Salomon boot thread?
Anyone's guess here will be as good as mine - I would default to a catalog for the specs.
You are the Interweb Wizard. Are you not?Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
I think they wrongly assumed because some atomic and Salomon bindings are co branded the boots would all be the same situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
Yeah so back in the day a lawyer called me the expert and I was like uh well
he said hey yer new in town you gota suitcase full of tools ... yer the expert !
I ask because if you snoop the pics it's pretty clear that the 110 has riveted cuff buckles while the 120 and 130 have bolted ones. But then...the pics make the 120 look like it has a riveted pivot whereas the 110 and 130 both appear to have bolted pivots....that would be strange...also I'm a fan of the 120 color scheme better and I prefer a velcro powerstrap.
Sorry next time I'll be sure to link my autobiography in case you needed some more details
It seems like the 130 is the only one with bolted cuffs. It looks like they both have bolted buckles. The powerstraps are different as you noted. And the flex is different.
Between Salomon & Atomic, bindings are co-developed and co-funded, but boots are entirely separate endeavors. I basically find out what Salomon is up to around the same time when I find out what other brands are doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
I can definitely speak to the differences between Atomic's 130 vs 120 vs 110 boots, for example, but Salomon doesn't follow our formulas/recipes, they have their own strategies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onenerdykid
that's wild I figured the teams would work together and use same engineers, factory, etc thus my comment!
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by FloridaSnow
It was an attempt at a joke to hold the one boot designer that is active on this forum for ransom to have him spill the beans on whether or not various Atomic boots did in fact have differing constructions or if it was just marketing malarkey.
you know - real fancy humor.
Still - woof - over some heads.
I will Strive to make things even more obvious going forward.
Wait - Look, is that an attempt at a binding joke? (alas - I wish the B Taylor song was called pivot around)
yeah, I should called it quits just about now. I am hardly entertaining myself here - let alone anybody else.
Is this some kind of joke to you? Ski bindings are no laughing matter and I would appreciate it if you stop acting like such a jester!Quote:
Originally Posted by kid-kapow
you need to look over his posts. Sometimes he just likes to pivot from one point to the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Coastal
Who made you the warden of ski binding puns?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Going Coastal
Couple days on them so far. Feel pretty good.
No hotspots yet, while with my Ultra XTDs I tried (and failed) to get the heel punched out.
My one gripe with the Alpha Boas is the lack of forward lean. Currently looking at creative options to increase that.
^^^
How’s the fit compared to ultra xtd? That’s the only touring boot I’ve found that’s low enough volume for my foot. I couldn’t ski it as a daily driver due to the heel pocket being shallow but for touring it works.
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I finally got my hands on a shift alpha.Quote:
Originally Posted by altacoup
The Shift Alpha is similar enough for comparison which is nice. The Shift has 6mm wider ankle and cuff, 2mm wider heel (side to side), ~4mm narrower just in front of the heel (back of the arch, where langes often pinch), ~2mm narrower forefoot. I didn’t measure the instep but I believe it is a touch lower but the throat of the cuff is a touch bigger. Most notably, the toe box of the shift is much wider at the end. It is square compared to the ultra; wider at each corner. It also doesn’t slope down on to the tip of the toe. It also doesn’t have the aggressive heel cup of the atomic.
The other notable aspect is that it is much thicker plastic than the atomic. It doesn’t buckle in the same way when flexed hard. I suspect it will ski much better.
It’s definitely not as low volume as the Hawx in the ankle. The difference could be easily made up with after market liners.
Roughly lining up the boots, I’d guess the shift is at least 16degrees forward lean. It is further forward than the stock 15 of the atomic.
I moved to the shift alpha this year for my personal boots, taking my zipfit across from the ultra XTD’s I’ve been in (previous gen pre-2023). No experience with stock Salomon liners. Walk mode is an issue with GFTs but I found a solution that works for me.
I do agree with most of the points that GoldenBC made above, I would generalize that the alpha is a slightly higher volume boot than the XTD but not massively so.
Cuff diameter and throat is roomier than the XTD, I’d actually say instep is a fraction higher than the XTD as I have no need to grind bootboard yet.
Toe box is palatial compared to the Hawx, I especially appreciate the lack of the stepdown at the toe dam.
Stiffer in every direction, haven’t folded them yet (although time will tell if they soften as quick as the atomic did). Significantly better laterally, more precise on edge.
Trying to work out if I want to add cork and how to get my stance comfortable. Expected the forward lean to feel similar (13 XTD, 13.5 claimed alpha) or even alpha more upright given how much stiffer off the top it feels, but so far I feel more forward.
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Agree with the points above. I'll be skiing them again today.
Overall there is more volume, especially in the toe, as others have mentioned. Which means I have been skiing them stock vs. slight ankle punching and major toe punching in the xtds. Almost feels a full half size longer. Wider heel, but deeper which is what I needed for the bone spurs. Fit wise, the instep cuts off a bit of circulation but I'm hoping it will pack out.
I haven't skied the two boots back to back, but I'd say the Alphas feel more natural coming out of plug boots. The plastic feels slightly more damp, and maybe it is the fit but I can crank the boot down tighter for a more precise turn initiation. (vs. the xtd). Overall the quality of the buckles and booster strap is really high too. Only material flaw I'm keeping an eye on is a some white plastic dust coming off the friction points at the upper cuff after each ski day.
The stance feels more aggressive than Lange's xt3 but not as aggressive as the most forward setting of the xtd. I'd like to increase the fwd lean.
A notable downside is the walk mode - it is slightly loose and very sloppy when closed. On flats you can hear the latch wobble.
That was the very first thing I noticed when I got the boots. Then put the zipfits in and even worse, to the point where I wouldn’t have trusted skiing in them. A sudden switch to walk mode at speed in chop would be bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by tupp_
I made a little spacer that keeps the power wedge from pushing the latch out. No noise, no flicking to walk mode. Happy days.
Seems like a major oversight in the building of the walk mode but what do I know.
Seems like the rattling walk mode is a thing. Everyone is putting tape/velcro under it to silence it.
After looking at it a bunch, I would be surpised if a zipfit could take it out of ski mode. You can't disengage the walk mode by pressing the back side of the mech from inside the shell with your finger. That being said, weird shit happens when you get rowdy. Not ideal.
The black tab that I think protects the walk mode was bothering someone's achilles so they ground it off with no apparent reprocussions.
Of note, the forward ROM is pretty shitty. Seems worse than the XTD.
The walk mode has play in its engagement which is weird because the MTN was always so solid. It seems to be negligible when fully buckled.
salomon shift alpha boa? is that really what its called? good to see salomon branching out into the gear with a stupid fucking name market. maybe they can give reigning king rossignol a run for their money?
Which flex did you end up going with?Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob_dbu
FWIW and if you have yet to see the boots for yourself, Shift Alpha Boa 120 does not have a riveted cuff but the cuff buckles and Velcro powerstrap are riveted on.
As to flex, I do not know if the Shift Alpha Boa 130 has the same exact shell as the 120 with the flex difference coming from the liners. I tend to think not because there is little difference between the two liners to account for it. Also last season the two different liner variations where both available in the S/Pro Alpha 120, with the Alpha 120 EL having the Velcro tongue & semi-detached shin plastic version liner of the S/Pro Alpha 130 and the S/Pro Alpha 120 with the 130 style liner was still dubbed 120 flex. I personally don't like that the 130 liner Velcro attached tongue to enable fore/aft positioning, it feels weird. To my foot the standard 120 liner without the Velcro feature feels better. I also don't care for the 130 tongue shin plastic front disconnect from the shin padding to enable adding material for customizing the fit. I have no need for either feature having been sized for a 1 finger shell fit.
I would guess either areas of the 130 shell are beefed up to account for the flex difference, or same exact mold but harder plastic
I like the Shift Alpha Boa 130 ratcheting Z hook strap, it is useful for touring. Also like the purple color better than the 120 dark aqua-green but do not want to find myself "overbooted" in too high a flex. Will say the 120 takes no effort to flex nose to knees to toes (indoors) while at the same time I don't over flex going further past my toes. I have not tried the 130, only the 120, but am thinking it may not be a bad idea to order a 130, compare flex and feel...
absolutely love the purple color scheme.Quote:
Originally Posted by neonorchid
I ended up not getting either...going to wait for a sale. But I did pick up some S/Pro Alpha 120s, so your comment about the liners is pertinent! I did see in person, I would have expected them to put the info about what's riveted or not in online descriptions.
Have had a few more inbounds days in the boot now:
- Plastic: This is the highlight of the boot for me - it is a damper, thicker plastic than what I have had in previous boots (Lange, Atomic)
- Fit: Still no need to punch anything. Had to add material below the footbed and around the sides of the heel for better fit. Heel feels good depth wise vs. the Atomic Ultra XTD (this is the reason I switched). I crank the boa to the "2" or "3" mark showing that these are still a higher volume "low-volume" boot.
- Stance: Still too upright feeling vs. what I want, but getting used to it.
Primary Issue:
- Walk Mode: There is some slop in the ski-walk mechanism, not just in the lever on the outside of the boot. ~1mm of slop in the latch system translates to 5mm of slop (fore-aft) in the top of the cuff even when all the buckles are engaged.