Credit Score Question: Anyone In This Industry?

Ok, so I have a curious one. I have (had,lol) a pretty good credit rating (was 798, trying to break 800).
Last year I opened an American Airlines credit card for the perks, and ultimately try to increase my credit score. I put a few flights on it, paid them off immediately, etc. One year was up, and I called the CC to ask some questions. Pretty sure I was only able to use the phone AI help. I basically said that I was interested in something or another, blah blah, or I would cancel my card. Well, that message never got to a live person, and they just cancelled my card without contacting me.
Lo and behold, my credit report dropped 58 points, mother-fuckers.
Question now is, what can I do to repair this?
There is no one that I can find to contact, it appears to all be done by computer, automatically.
Does anyone have any insight?
I actually want another airline card, but now I’m afraid my credit will drop even further if I do.
Thanks in advance.

(Tl/dr: hookers and blow)

Not in the industry , but a few things that could have happened. Debt to available credit is one metric used . If you closed this account and then have a higher % of your now less available credit in use, that's a big reason this could have dropped.

Average age of account is another metric used for scoring, when you closed this account that changed


Most changes to your score like this are fairly transient. I don't carry a balance on any of my cards but use them a lot and my score can swing quite a bit just based on fluctuations in my statement closing balance that the credit card companies report each month.

Tl;Dr. It will likely normalize shortly. Feel free to open a new card for the points bonus if you will use it



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They didn’t teach this in dental school but you just have more exposure now. If a major expense hit you, you have less of an ability to handle it because you closed out a credit line.


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So, theoretically , if I opened up a new equivalent line, it should help?

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Originally Posted by rideit

So, theoretically , if I opened up a new equivalent line, it should help?

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It's another inquiry which could lower you, you depending on how many you have within the past few months or so. And will typically drop a couple points. But if you have other debts, once the new credit line is reported, it will change your debt to income and could go up again. Once you're above a certain point, going higher doesn't really make a difference.

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Kevo used to be the TGR expert on this, may still be, PM him. Not rontele.

Many years ago, I was knowledgeable about Credit Bureau Reporting for a large bank. I'm not sure if the info below has changed.

Credit lines can show as Closed by Consumer or Closed by Creditor (amongst others). Closed by Consumer would reflect more favorable on your score.

So maybe this line shows as Closed by Creditor?

Mine dropped 100 points when I paid off my mortgage after selling. Just have a few credit cards that I payoff each month. Seems to be back up in the 800's after a couple years. Not that I cared much, because wasn't planning on getting another mortgage.

You could ask for a credit increase on your remaining cards to have a higher credit to debt ratio.

58 points isn't all that much. Give it another 30-90 days and it will probably go right back up.

Closing the account lowered your total credit limit consequently increasing your % of available credit used, both negatives, hence the -58pts.

A quick way to get a jump on regaining some points is to pay each charge w/in a day of 2 or making it in an attempt to lower % of available credit used and then reopen a new/old account w as high or higher credit limit.

Or let it ride, it's not like there is a big issue with it, as is.

Teaching my boys. Oldest turned 18. Got a Discover card. Told him to hold a small balance for a few months. Paying in full isn’t as good when you build credit. He was pissed at wasting interest payments. lol.
. Car loans paid on time are better. Mortgage payments never late are the best.

My personal score goes up and down. I don’t care. Anything close to 800 is bankable.

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Originally Posted by 406

You could ask for a credit increase on your remaining cards to have a higher credit to debt ratio.

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Some may perform a credit inquiry before approving which will drop your score. I wouldn’t do this.

Probably the best thing would be to ask them to reopen your account, that it was closed in error.

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Originally Posted by Iowagriz

Many years ago, I was knowledgeable about Credit Bureau Reporting for a large bank. I'm not sure if the info below has changed.

Credit lines can show as Closed by Consumer or Closed by Creditor (amongst others). Closed by Consumer would reflect more favorable on your score.

So maybe this line shows as Closed by Creditor?

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No, definitely closed by me. One purchase, one payment within 25 days.

Lots of wrong info in this thread so far but a few good pieces:

1. There is a point where your credit is “good enough” and higher doesn’t really open up better rates. High 700’s tends to be that range. That being said, your score only matters when you go to buy something you need to finance. Monthly volatility means nothing.
2. There are different models for calculating credit. Basically a mortgage company might weight things differently than a credit card company. Most modals weight your ‘revolving credit utilization’ as 30-35% of your total score. You want between 1-9% utilization for the highest score. Don’t go above 20%. 0 also dings you for some reason… you do not need to pay interest… you just need to spend a little money on at least one revolving line and pay it in full. People panic ‘credit karma says I’m a 750 but the bank says I’m a 660’. It’s just different ways of analyzing risk from the same info.
3. Figure out your amount of revolving credit needed based on your max monthly spending on cards. If you might spent up to $5,000 in a month, look to have a combined $50,000 limit. Given most Americans spending $100,000 limit on credit cards makes sense and just spend your $3500 per month and pay it in full.
4. Any change will briefly ding your score. Given that there just isn’t context in credit models. Hard credit pull? Score drops. New credit card? Score drops. Close an account? Score drops. These are usually short term. I’d mainly try to think about when your next big purchase is and not have anything pull your score down for 9-12 months prior.
5. Types of loans matter. Ideally you have a mortgage, some revolving lines, and a term loan or two on your history.

If you’re not planning on needing an 800 score for something in the near future, find another card and open it. It will drop your score for a while but that might not matter and it’ll be back to 800. If you’re about it buy a house, start spending more on your debit card for a few months to drop utilization and stay below 9%.

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Originally Posted by rideit

No, definitely closed by me. One purchase, one payment within 25 days.

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Get a reverse mortgage, bank pays you and your credit score goes to 10,000.

Win/win.

Your welcome


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Originally Posted by neufox47

Some may perform a credit inquiry before approving which will drop your score. I wouldn’t do this.

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

3. Figure out your amount of revolving credit needed based on your max monthly spending on cards. If you might spent up to $5,000 in a month, look to have a combined $50,000 limit. Given most Americans spending $100,000 limit on credit cards makes sense and just spend your $3500 per month and pay it in full.

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^^^This is what I was trying to say. I complete the online form a couple times per year to increase by ~1k and it almost always approved instantly. But yeah, might drop by 5 points or something, it all seems like such an odd system, so who knows. FWIW, just checked my FICO is 838 out of 850, so seem to be playing the game right but have no insider info. Based on the fico dashboard in my AMEX account, revolving utilization is 30% of score. Payment history 35%, length 15%, new credit 10%, credit mix 10%.

I had thought car and home insurance rates can be impacted by credit score? I know government background check pulls it. Also some employers? So not just for a mortgage.

My credit score is nosebleed high, but it still goes up and down. After a while you get bored trying to make it go higher. Like trying to go the speed of light. No matter how on time you pay, and how well you play the game, you can't achieve perfection, and if you ever did, as soon as you borrowed money, you'd be back at 800, if you borrowed the money for a Euro wagon, shave off another 50 points. I do think my moniker helps. The shirts trust uglymonkeys with their cash and no law 'I know of' prevents them from providing me favored status.

Lately I've been much more obsessed with my Flying J/Pilot points and they feel far more important to me, however fleeting they might be. Up to like 727, which is 727 dollars and that required burning enough carbon to eventually eviscerate several small forests once the sun works on it for a few decades, so it is a nice consolation prize to be points rich. My carbon nuetral score is -750, achieving a near perfect balance. Every now and then I take the girl to a C-store and tell her to go absolutely crazy. Gummie bear bags? No limits! My Pilot status drops back down a bit before it goes back up, but Disneyland dad'n on a road trip is priceless and a forever memory.

Just have to take your lumps.

Hope this helps.

I was able to negotiate 5% off of our monthly rent based on my and my wife’s scores. It’s going to pay for our gym membership next year.

Making your kids pay interest is a waste of money. Add them as authorized users at the earliest your financial institution will allow and then be responsible with your financial choices.

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

Lots of wrong info in this thread so far but a few good pieces:

1. There is a point where your credit is “good enough” and higher doesn’t really open up better rates. High 700’s tends to be that range. That being said, your score only matters when you go to buy something you need to finance. Monthly volatility means nothing.
2. There are different models for calculating credit. Basically a mortgage company might weight things differently than a credit card company. Most modals weight your ‘revolving credit utilization’ as 30-35% of your total score. You want between 1-9% utilization for the highest score. Don’t go above 20%. 0 also dings you for some reason… you do not need to pay interest… you just need to spend a little money on at least one revolving line and pay it in full. People panic ‘credit karma says I’m a 750 but the bank says I’m a 660’. It’s just different ways of analyzing risk from the same info.
3. Figure out your amount of revolving credit needed based on your max monthly spending on cards. If you might spent up to $5,000 in a month, look to have a combined $50,000 limit. Given most Americans spending $100,000 limit on credit cards makes sense and just spend your $3500 per month and pay it in full.
4. Any change will briefly ding your score. Given that there just isn’t context in credit models. Hard credit pull? Score drops. New credit card? Score drops. Close an account? Score drops. These are usually short term. I’d mainly try to think about when your next big purchase is and not have anything pull your score down for 9-12 months prior.
5. Types of loans matter. Ideally you have a mortgage, some revolving lines, and a term loan or two on your history.

If you’re not planning on needing an 800 score for something in the near future, find another card and open it. It will drop your score for a while but that might not matter and it’ll be back to 800. If you’re about it buy a house, start spending more on your debit card for a few months to drop utilization and stay below 9%.

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I work in this industry, and agree with the above. If you aren’t planning on using credit don’t stress about utilization, especially if you’re 750+. On utilization:
- Almost certainly your score dropped due to utilization. That’s generally almost a third of FICO scoring models.
- Utilization is a right now sorta thing, so if you’re at 50% utilization this month and go to 2% utilization next month, your score will rocket accordingly. The only memory models can make use of is whether you’ve paid as agreed. Models don’t care if you use every card a little bit, and they don’t know whether or not you had a balance last month. The bit of folk wisdom about charging a few dollars every month or so is probably more to do with keeping your lines of credit open with those banks rather than anything to do with credit scoring.
- Your credit info is updated when creditors report it, and that’s typically monthly. If you squint hard at the reported balances for revolving lines you can probably figure out exactly when. We report for month end. Some report on different cycles. Credit bureaus have zero idea what is happening in between batch credit report cycles from credit reporters.
- The dollar of your revolving limits doesn’t really matter because it lacks context. Credit bureaus do not know your income. 5% utilization of $50K or $5K is the same thing.

The new pull ding is only 5-10 points and those dings are temporary (less than 90 days, generally), don’t stress about those, it’s worth the ding to increase your limit on established lines, if you plan on continuing to use revolving lines of credit at all. If the card was only a year old it probably wasn’t an age of credit that affected you, and probably not a mix issue either.

Confirming on your credit report what the closure reason was is maybe worth looking at, but not due to scoring. Closed by creditor or closed by borrower should not impact that because again, it lacks context. If I as a creditor am feeling pinched by liquidity or exposure and I curtail lines, that’s nothing to do with you. It might make a lender furrow their brow when they evaluate your credit report, but nothing more.

Also: thoroughly amused that you gave them an “or else” and they figuratively told you to fuck off. Liquidity is tight and unfunded commitments hurt more than they did a year ago, especially for somebody who doesn’t process many transactions and doesn’t carry a balance. Maybe save the ultimatum for something that they care about.

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Originally Posted by ghost

Making your kids pay interest is a waste of money. Add them as authorized users at the earliest your financial institution will allow and then be responsible with your financial choices.

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I dunno. Maybe musty can erudite since he’s in the industry.
I got Amex a long time ago in college. Gave me credit when I didn’t deserve it.
They love me. Added my boys as users. My oldest just turned eighteen and they refused him a card.

Carrying a small balance helps. Used to be better than paying off each month. I don’t. But I don’t give a fuck. I pay my bills on time.

You don’t need to carry a balance and pay interest. Use the card for at least a few small expenses and pay it in full each month. Paying interest does not impact a fico score. I’m laughing at the ‘work in the industry lingo’ but yes I work in the industry…

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

I dunno. Maybe musty can erudite since he’s in the industry.
I got Amex a long time ago in college. Gave me credit when I didn’t deserve it.
They love me. Added my boys as users. My oldest just turned eighteen and they refused him a card.

Carrying a small balance helps. Used to be better than paying off each month. I don’t. But I don’t give a fuck. I pay my bills on time.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

I dunno. Maybe musty can erudite since he’s in the industry.
I got Amex a long time ago in college. Gave me credit when I didn’t deserve it.
They love me. Added my boys as users. My oldest just turned eighteen and they refused him a card.

Carrying a small balance helps. Used to be better than paying off each month. I don’t. But I don’t give a fuck. I pay my bills on time.

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Bureaus don’t accept credit reporting for minors. Not all creditors report authorized users to bureaus. Carrying a small balance doesn’t do anything but keep the card open. Use that free float (grace period) and they’ll report with a balance AND you won’t pay any interest, if that makes you feel better.

Your full credit report is available to you. That is the law. Go look at your credit report and, using that report, tell me what your balance on your Amex card was 10 months ago. You can’t. Because it isn’t there. That is the information the models use to calculate score. There isn’t a hidden ledger anywhere.

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

I’m laughing at the ‘work in the industry lingo’ but yes I work in the industry…

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Wouldn’t be how I’d say it, but those are the words they were using. ¯\_(?)_/¯

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Originally Posted by Tailwind

You don’t need to carry a balance and pay interest. Use the card for at least a few small expenses and pay it in full each month. Paying interest does not impact a fico score.

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Using the card doesn’t impact fico either, except maybe for that specific reporting cycle. Some lenders will cancel or close inactive* cards, though, and may not give you increases if you don’t use it. I get CLIP increases frequently when I make large purchases and eat up most of a line, and that’s how we monitor for limit increase opportunities.

*Keeping it active usually means using it every 60-90 days (or more likely annually).

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Bureaus don’t accept credit reporting for minors. Not all creditors report authorized users to bureaus. Carrying a small balance doesn’t do anything but keep the card open. Use that free float (grace period) and they’ll report with a balance AND you won’t pay any interest, if that makes you feel better.

Your full credit report is available to you. That is the law. Go look at your credit report and, using that report, tell me what your balance on your Amex card was 10 months ago. You can’t. Because it isn’t there. That is the information the models use to calculate score. There isn’t a hidden ledger anywhere.

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Yeah. That’s the fucked up bad advice I got. Put my minors on my card. Didn’t do Jack shit for them. But they had a card. Had to look more closely at my statement to make sure what they were buying. lol. .

Good inside baseball about what I was told about carrying a small balance. Now that he has a Discover card in his own name I’ll let him know just to pay it off. Makes sense. So average monthly balance is probably more important than carrying a balance.
It’s new to me. I got credit but trying to help my boy get his.

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Originally Posted by Core Shot

Carrying a small balance helps. Used to be better than paying off each month.

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Not true.

There are two different games that frequently get conflated. (1) is building that credit report in such a way that the models like you. (2) is managing your relationship with your financial institution so they’ll help you build that report (keep your account open, increase your limits, etc.).

There isn’t a place on credit reports for an average balance either, fwiw. Just what it is the day of the billing cycle that they report it. Along with your current limit, your current payment, and your highest reported balance (which doesn’t impact FICO or most other scoring models). And historically whether you paid on time and if not how late each payment was, open date, and credit type. And really not much else.

I was chucking at in the industry because it makes it sound like a special designation and you should list a resume and current title within your response. No shade intended.

Agreed on not ‘needing’ to use a card. I normally say ‘buy something’ because I think 0% utilization (across all accounts) does make your score drop… but then again that’s fluid just like revolving utilization.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Wouldn’t be how I’d say it, but those are the words they were using. ¯\_(?)_/¯



Using the card doesn’t impact fico either, except maybe for that specific reporting cycle. Some lenders will cancel or close inactive* cards, though, and may not give you increases if you don’t use it. I get CLIP increases frequently when I make large purchases and eat up most of a line, and that’s how we monitor for limit increase opportunities.

*Keeping it active usually means using it every 60-90 days (or more likely annually).

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Student loans would be a good way to establish credit, yes or no?

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Originally Posted by Danno

Kevo used to be the TGR expert on this, may still be, PM him. Not rontele.

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Hello! Checking in.

I was a credit nerd for a long time and was a member of another board where a large group of people made a dedicated effort to test the FICO scoring algorithms month after month by changing what we allowed the banks to report. The purpose was to figure out how to optimize scores, but there were also people trying to repair credit so we slowly figured out what negatively impacts scores and by how much.

I later worked closely in a career job with a PhD physicist turned data scientist who had previously worked for FICO developing their scoring algorithms. He confirmed my understanding.

First question- what score and where did it come from? If it isn't a FICO score it does not matter. There are a million free credit scores available and for the most part only FICO scores matter because generally banks won't use other scoring algorithms besides FICO when making lending decisions. If it isn't a FICO score that went down for Rideit, the rest of this won't be applicable.

It is worth noting that there are also multiple FICO scoring algorithms available to banks. They mostly function the same way, so I'll just lump them all together.

Ok, so assuming it is a FICO score my next question would be- do you use other forms of credit? What else is in your file? Do you have mortgages or auto loans or other credit cards? If yes, how many other credit cards?

A major drop like that in a FICO score would likely only happen if you either had a thin file (like no other credit cards or only a few other credit cards and no other loans) OR if you were carrying balances on other cards and your overall available credit limit dropped when the airline card was cancelled. In the latter example, your revolving credit utilization percentage would go up.

Ultimately, there is no advantage in terms of the APRs that banks will offer you once your FICO score is above 760. Above 760 is the top bucket for the lowest risk consumers, so you won't get a better mortgage or auto loan rate based on your credit score at 820 vs 780, etc.

Pedantic: 780 is the new high water mark, though anywhere from 720-760 is still top tier most of the time, but that will vary be lender. Your bank up the street could decide to offer special financing for 800+ credit, and some do…

ETA: Kevo - did you ever validate the 0% vs 1% or 2% utilization issue and the relative impact, if any? That’s one I’ve never been able to get a handle on anecdotally, neither with my own scoring nor through reviewing scoring on others.

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

Pedantic: 780 is the new high water mark, though anywhere from 720-760 is still top tier most of the time, but that will vary be lender. Your bank up the street could decide to offer special financing for 800+ credit, and some do…

ETA: Kevo - did you ever validate the 0% vs 1% or 2% utilization issue and the relative impact, if any? That’s one I’ve never been able to get a handle on anecdotally, neither with my own scoring nor through reviewing scoring on others.

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Highest score was achieved when one revolving account (credit card, line of credit) reported a small nonzero amount (like $10) and all other revolving accounts reported zero.

This was controlled by paying down cards before the statement date. Almost all credit cards only report the balance as of the statement date, so if you pay them off in advance of the statement date you can control what they report to the credit reporting agencies. There were a couple banks at the time that would sometimes report mid cycle. I think Bank of America was one.

All of my info is from the 2009-2013 time frame, so I'll defer to your expertise on 780+ now being the highest score bucket.

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Originally Posted by Kevo

Highest score was achieved when one revolving account (credit card, line of credit) reported a small nonzero amount (like $10) and all other revolving accounts reported zero.

This was controlled by paying down cards before the statement date. Almost all credit cards only report the balance as of the statement date, so if you pay them off in advance of the statement date you can control what they report to the credit reporting agencies. There were a couple banks at the time that would sometimes report mid cycle. I think Bank of America was one.

All of my info is from the 2009-2013 time frame, so I'll defer to your expertise on 780+ now being the highest score bucket.

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Still correct in late 2023. I was intending to car loan shop in late 2023 and was playing w my FICO for months and low utilization is key.

Last month I had a hard pull to apply for a loan and my utilization was higher than average and my scores went up.

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Originally Posted by Dantheman

Last month I had a hard pull to apply for a loan and my utilization was higher than average and my scores went up.

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I heard heli skiing in AK instantly raises your credit score. I’m no expert, just what I heard.


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