A video they should play at every level one class

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5E8_mtvAsF/

Jesus, I cried a bit when her husband hugged her. I don't think many skiers think about the reailty of consequences and then a rescue, based on the bat-shit lines skied around the wasatch day after day in questionable conditions. This might, maybe, makes you think about what happens if you fuck up. I had someone die in my arms and I had nightmares every single night for at least a year, and lots more after it tapered off - it's fucking intense whether you live or die.

Looks like a slip and slide to me. If you want to get freaked, watch some full burials.

Also watch To The Hills and Back, it has its own thread. It expounds on the loss and what happens after.


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Originally Posted by muted reborn

https://www.instagram.com/p/C5E8_mtvAsF/

Jesus, I cried a bit when her husband hugged her. I don't think many skiers think about the reailty of consequences and then a rescue, based on the bat-shit lines skied around the wasatch day after day in questionable conditions. This might, maybe, makes you think about what happens if you fuck up. I had someone die in my arms and I had nightmares every single night for at least a year, and lots more after it tapered off - it's fucking intense whether you live or die.

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Unsure if this will come across as judgemental or callous... not the intent.

The partiality buried skiier's immediate emotional response is close to complete meltdown. I've been involved in numerous near death experiences kayaking and have never seen a boater meltdown like this. I wonder if the difference is because the backcountry skiing experience feels so innocuous until it isn't, whereas the whitewater kayaking experience always has at least a hint of danger peppered with at least occasional beatdowns.

It is almost as if the backcountry skier has never seriously and deeply considered the real possibility of adverse events.

I would bet this causes people to take chances like dropping into a leeward slope that is wind loading in front of their very eyes without even thinking twice.

I'm not sure my writing will make sense here. I'm glad the skier survived.

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Interesting video. A small slope and a small slide that clearly demonstrates how much smaller the human is and that the mountain has the final say.

I don't know if I'd call that "close to a complete meltdown." Sounds like a flood of adrenaline receding and emotions taking over, relief in particular. Reading her caption is worthwhile. I do agree bc skiing can seem pretty innocuous until it isn't, unlike climbing/kayaking etc.

I’d call that a meltdown. I wouldn’t want to be in any situation where there’s a possibility of danger with that person.


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Originally Posted by yeahman

I don't know if I'd call that "close to a complete meltdown." Sounds like a flood of adrenaline receding and emotions taking over, relief in particular. Reading her caption is worthwhile. I do agree bc skiing can seem pretty innocuous until it isn't, unlike climbing/kayaking etc.

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Close to a meltdown or not is not my point.

My point is the skiers statement, "I can't believe this is how I die," may be telling of how a lot of backcountry enthusiasts approach risk in skiing. As former whitewater kayaker, most of the people I knew that boated realized, or believed, kayaking had the highest chance of killing them compared to their daily lives... well, maybe except for the ones that base jumped (I don't think I knew them, though ;).)

One of my regrets about boating is taking risks upon myself that could affect my immediate family and friends. I was young and single then. I'm older, with a wife and family, and much less centered on myself.

Shit, a friend of mine, exceedingly strong skiier, hit a tree while ripping under a lift skiing inbounds and died. I bet a lot of people skiing inbounds don't have that level of risk consideration in the forefront of their minds. I digress.

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I’ve had new partners in the bc ask me “is this safe?”. I always tell them that safe is a relative term. People want to ski tour, take a level 1 and really have no appreciation for the risks inherent in ski touring. It’s not just avalanches, any injury can turn into an ordeal.


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

I’ve had new partners in the bc ask me “is this safe?”. I always tell them that safe is a relative term. People want to ski tour, take a level 1 and really have no appreciation for the risks inherent in ski touring. It’s not just avalanches, any injury can turn into an ordeal.


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Yup. A simple bad choice or mistake can escalate into a monumental shit storm real quickly. A lot of folks don't really understand this.

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Originally Posted by zion zig zag

Also watch To The Hills and Back, it has its own thread. It expounds on the loss and what happens after.


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I should/will. Glad to hear something like that exists - I now remember a friend mentioning how powerful it is.

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

Unsure if this will come across as judgemental or callous... not the intent.

The partiality buried skiier's immediate emotional response is close to complete meltdown. I've been involved in numerous near death experiences kayaking and have never seen a boater meltdown like this. I wonder if the difference is because the backcountry skiing experience feels so innocuous until it isn't, whereas the whitewater kayaking experience always has at least a hint of danger peppered with at least occasional beatdowns.

It is almost as if the backcountry skier has never seriously and deeply considered the real possibility of adverse events.

I would bet this causes people to take chances like dropping into a leeward slope that is wind loading in front of their very eyes without even thinking twice.

I'm not sure my writing will make sense here. I'm glad the skier survived.

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Males are trained by society to hide emotions then get PTSD from it, that doesn't work out either. I don't call that a meltdown, that's releasing stress when no one needs to be found, the situation is over. And that was what, 10-15 seconds of a rescue that lasted 3? 5? hours? We didn't see the rest of her rescue and really why are we judging her here? Why? I think based on her comments she broke her butt btw, a tough injury, and I think she was composed and cracking jokes down to the ambulance on a tough rescue, and no woman needs permission from men on the internet to be real with their emotions after a near death experience. I'm getting some toxic male vibes man.

One of the most levelheaded people I know when the shit hits the fan is a woman. Get out of here with the toxic masculinity bs.

In emergency situations being able to compartmentalize as a victim or responder is invaluable.


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You guys realize she had just gotten carried through and over cliffs and was seriously injured right? Stop judging her from the first ten seconds after that. Any medical or rescue training I've done covers the fact you may have to calm the victim down, keep them from moving around, or being hostile. I've seen some collected, tough people freaking out right after a traumatic injury. Once settled down, they were model patients over long extractions.

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Originally Posted by claymond

You guys realize she had just gotten carried through and over cliffs and was seriously injured right? Stop judging her from the first ten seconds after that. Any medical or rescue training I've done covers the fact you may have to calm the victim down, keep them from moving around, or being hostile. I've seen some collected, tough people freaking out right after a traumatic injury. Once settled down, they were model patients over long extractions.

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^ This.

Edit: however, I wasn’t impressed with the person that videoed it. I thought: “Less talking, more assessment.”

Put down the phone and help?


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My point is getting lost. When people watch this and only see the actions of the victim, rescuer, and the snow conditions that lead to this avie instead of hearing the higher level lessons of - 'this may teach newbs the emotional wringer you could go through without showing a dead person blue in the snow being dug out, or without anyone even getting buried.'

This video isn't as valuable as I thought anymore. If people watch this through their ego thinking "I'd never be in the situation to begin with" or "I would never react like that" I guess I'm naive thinking this HAS to be in avie classes.

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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

Put down the phone and help?


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She was filming with a GoPro, not a phone. Looked like a helmet mount.

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

My point is getting lost. When people watch this and only see the actions of the victim, rescuer, and the snow conditions that lead to this avie instead of hearing the higher level lessons of - 'this may teach newbs the emotional wringer you could go through without showing a dead person blue in the snow being dug out, or without anyone even getting buried.'

This video isn't as valuable as I thought anymore. If people watch this through their ego thinking "I'd never be in the situation to begin with" or "I would never react like that" I guess I'm naive thinking this HAS to be in avie classes.

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I think the value of the video isn’t the reaction of the victim. The value is that on a beautiful day on a slope that many might consider benign bad shit can happen. People often underestimate the objective hazard when ski touring. We’re all going to react differently. I think that focusing on the victim’s reaction instead of the decision making that lead to a bad outcome is trite.

Of course that’s just my opinion and you can feel free to say it’s toxic masculinity. I’m not going to say I’d never make a bad decision either, I have and welcomed the criticism after nearly killing myself.


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Originally Posted by muted reborn

I should/will. Glad to hear something like that exists - I now remember a friend mentioning how powerful it is.



Males are trained by society to hide emotions then get PTSD from it, that doesn't work out either. I don't call that a meltdown, that's releasing stress when no one needs to be found, the situation is over. And that was what, 10-15 seconds of a rescue that lasted 3? 5? hours? We didn't see the rest of her rescue and really why are we judging her here? Why? I think based on her comments she broke her butt btw, a tough injury, and I think she was composed and cracking jokes down to the ambulance on a tough rescue, and no woman needs permission from men on the internet to be real with their emotions after a near death experience. I'm getting some toxic male vibes man.

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You're really reading into my post stating something far from my intent. Feel free to reread the first line a few times. Read the qualifying words like "almost," "seems," etc... obviously, the video is only a brief snapshot into the days events.

Male/ female doesn't matter to me in the situation. Just like MU above, I've had kayaking partners that were women and more composed than any man. I'm not sure where you get toxic masculinity from.

I do think my commenting on dropping into a leeward slope with wind loading right before one's eyes was a bit harsh/blunt. I'll leave that comment in my post above and stand by my error. The point is that anyone can make that mistake, and mistakes are made more often when risks/ consequences are not at the forefront of one's mind. Whether risks were at the forefront of that skiers mind doesn't matter to me and is irrelevant to my point.


I'll echo the posts above that recommend, To the Hills and Back. The movie hits a home run.

I am beyond relieved that the skier survived.

Either way, I'm checking out of this thread.

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Originally Posted by skinipenem

You're really reading into my post stating something far from my intent. Feel free to reread the first line a few times. Read the qualifying words like "almost," "seems," etc... obviously, the video is only a brief snapshot into the days events.

Male/ female doesn't matter to me in the situation. Just like MU above, I've had kayaking partners that were women and more composed than any man. I'm not sure where you get toxic masculinity from.

I do think my commenting on dropping into a leeward slope with wind loading right before one's eyes was a bit harsh/blunt. I'll leave that comment in my post above and stand by my error. The point is that anyone can make that mistake, and mistakes are made more often when risks/ consequences are not at the forefront of one's mind. Whether risks were at the forefront of that skiers mind doesn't matter to me and is irrelevant to my point.


I'll echo the posts above that recommend, To the Hills and Back. The movie hits a home run.

I am beyond relieved that the skier survived.

Either way, I'm checking out of this thread.

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That's fine, this thread isn't going anywhere and as I said, I don't think the video is valuable to everyone as I first thought. It's rare for a avie video to show raw emotions instead they are held back, or the person is in shock and can't express shit, or it's simply cut out of the edit so they don't have to engage with unnecessary judgement with people like you. Otherwise, to me, it's one of hundreds of videos online of someone getting caught in a slide and unremarkable from a snow safety learning standpoint.

Your meltdown comment is still bullshit but it is fascinating to me to learn what people get out of this video.

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Originally Posted by muted reborn

That's fine, this thread isn't going anywhere and as I said, I don't think the video is valuable to everyone as I first thought. It's rare for a avie video to show raw emotions instead they are held back, or the person is in shock and can't express shit, or it's simply cut out of the edit so they don't have to engage with unnecessary judgement with people like you. Otherwise, to me, it's one of hundreds of videos online of someone getting caught in a slide and unremarkable from a snow safety learning standpoint.

Your meltdown comment is still bullshit but it is fascinating to me to learn what people get out of this video.

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Who is judging now? Get over yourself


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Did she break her leg? I see that she was brought out on a a make shift toboggan.

Shock and fear hits everyone differently. No judgement on my end. She thought she was dead for a minute there. I've been there maybe two or three times and it definitely fucked me up.

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Originally Posted by raisingarizona13

Did she break her leg? I see that she was brought out on a a make shift toboggan.

Shock and fear hits everyone differently. No judgement on my end. She thought she was dead for a minute there. I've been there maybe two or three times and it definitely fucked me up.

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I'm having trouble figuring it all out from IG but I think she broke her butt, but it could have been a leg instead.

What's annoying to me is this judging of her being real in the moment, 10 seconds into a 3-5 hour rescue. No one knows anything but those 10 seconds - a blip in time. And either way, anyone I rescue can cry, puke, stay silent, scream, be rational or irrational - whatever! and I won't hold it against them or whisper it to anyone afterwards. As Mike Tyson says - loosely - we all have a plan (and think we know how we will react) until we get punched in the face. Two of my friends asked if they were going to die after accidents - were they bad victims having mental breakdowns and not focusing on the rescue to anyone here reading this?

I think you’re taking this a bit personally. Why do you care if we don’t agree with you about the relevance of this video? Do you think you’re the only person that has been in a situation like this and anyone with an opinion counter to yours is just judging and exuding toxic masculinity? I’m genuinely curious why you are reacting this way.


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I think he's "triggered".

Someone had to.

From an avy teaching perspective who cares how one person reacts after the shit hits the fan. Not the purpose of the exercise. What conditions were evaluated prior to the subject dropping in, and what was the result. Is there empirical learnings there. Those are the classroom discussions that have merit.

The above conversations reminds me of the stupid shock vids back in highschool about drunk driving and it’s possible/probable outcomes. The effects after the fact displayed in the movies were rarely useful from a decision-making process IMO. At least for most of the viewers, and my observations of their actions at the next bonfire social they attended. Shock effects everyone differently (whether from an actual event or just as an observer).

Should you have a reasonable understanding of your comrades heading out in a backcountry adventure? You bet. Would I ski with the subject in the video? Dunno by the one (edited?) snapshot. And stress/shock response is also not the same in every instance - what was in a person’s head the day before. What had been building? Remember we are all humans, not some MCU character on the TV, no matter how we present ourselves in our best light.

Watched without audio. So can’t comment on the freak out.
But my initial reaction was the snowboarder video insta snap gram preserving the moment while the skier comes in from left to initiate the rescue.

Yes. Perhaps the video could help locate the burial. But if you have beacons get out on that bed surface and get on the scene.

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Originally Posted by BCMtnHound

The above conversations reminds me of the stupid shock vids back in highschool about drunk driving and it’s possible/probable outcomes. The effects after the fact displayed in the movies were rarely useful from a decision-making process IMO. At least for most of the viewers, and my observations of their actions at the next bonfire social they attended. Shock effects everyone differently (whether from an actual event or just as an observer).

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I would think this video would wake people up on the realities of accidents - it's not quite a shock video because no one dies - but I'll humbly admit I'm naive believing this after seeing people's responses here. I don't think it's a valuable learning video anymore. It certainly would be valuable for a few types of people, but not for everyone like I thought.

I watched into the hills last night, great reference thanks ZZZ, it gets the same point/message across but the message is framed much better than the video I posted.

As someone who recently pulled a cyanotic person out of a tree well I can easily say that I was not prepared for the trauma of CPR. I knew what I needed to know to coordinate the process of CPR and even to check to make sure it was done with good quality but I left with a sense of being unprepared. I'm not sure how I will roll this into future avalanche classes yet but there is some value in the "shock videos" for first responders. There is also value in sharing the realities of the consequences of the mountains since our environment often lacks feedback until it's too late. The counter argument is that witnessing traumatic events can cause trauma as well. There is a careful line to follow to prepare the right people without injuring the wrong people.

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Originally Posted by claymond

You guys realize she had just gotten carried through and over cliffs and was seriously injured right? Stop judging her from the first ten seconds after that. Any medical or rescue training I've done covers the fact you may have to calm the victim down, keep them from moving around, or being hostile. I've seen some collected, tough people freaking out right after a traumatic injury. Once settled down, they were model patients over long extractions.

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I dislocated my shoulder in a tough spot. I apologized to the patroler who got to me. He said, " Hey, you're not bleeding and you're not screaming, so no problem."