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One season into the great BOA boot takeover, I’m curious how they held up in the real world. Anyone buy BOA boots and have 10+ days on them to report (positive or negative)? Any notable repair stories from those that work in shops? Looking for real experiences not marketing hype or speculative hate.
I have a couple months in the Atomic Hawx Ultra 130 XTD BOA and they’re great. Much more progressive flex than my old polyamide pair, no issues with the BOA. You can go qiuite tight or quite loose and still be comfortable, and you can leave it very loose while skinning without your foot moving fore and aft. The comfort is amazing for my very wide foot with high-average instep.Quote:
Originally Posted by CouloirInTheLines
Any BOA specific questions let me know.
I want to know what the break strength of the cable is. If the boa wheel gets knocked off and stuck around a tree branch or something, is the cable going to break?
seems like it could be worse then skiing with pole straps on when dolphin turning. But Leki did give bushwhacka an alternative there.
Ha. The BOA takeover is like 10 years old in bike shoes and at least 5 on touring boots. Snowboard boots have had them even longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by CouloirInTheLines
Cables can break, and they aren't strong enough to hold your weight if you catch them on something. I've only broken them when hitting rocks pretty hard on my bike shoes. They do wear out eventually. The spools can also break, but again: usually from impact.
BOA's warranty is incredible: new parts arrive 2-3 days after you request them.
IMO there's no better system for cinching footwear. The fragility compared with other methods is FAR outweighed by the superior function.
This is not something which could happen due to the design. If the BOA dial becomes disconnected from the shell the cable will not release from the dial so the only exposed cable would be what was between the dial and the first medial guide. This is usually going to be less then 5cm (in most cases much less) which means there will not be enough cable to get snagged around anything which could possibly result in a problem. The only way this could be an issue would be if the BOA dial was not engaged before it took the impact so I could maybe see if you were touring with your boots fully undone this could theoretically happen but if you are worried just keep the boot loose but engage the dial.Quote:
Originally Posted by SoVT Joey
Can you tighten or loosen the BOA if you lose the dial?
The only way you could lose the dial is if the cable was to snap and in that case yes you can easily loosen the shell as nothing would be holding the cable tight. If the dial disengages from the shell the dial would still be attached by the short length of cable so you will not lose it.Quote:
Originally Posted by herrgard
A more realistic scenario might be getting the boa caught on a snowmobile running board or foot hoop while riding. I could potentially see it getting caught and keeping me pinned in place with the sled but that really isn't any different than a normal buckle on a boot.
Yeah it really would be the same as a buckle as you say and actually, because the dial does have the breakaway feature you may well find it's slightly safer. The BOA guys are big sledders so spend a lot of time out in the backcountry of Steamboat so you can be assured BOA boots have already spent a lot of hours on the sled.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason4
That's good to hear. Hopefully I'll have a set to run through the wringer in the Cascades this winter.
Snowboarder here (caveat) who was super skeptical of BOA when it was first introduced 20+ years ago.
Started riding BOA on the Burton StepOn in W20 and every season since. The technology has improved hugely since its debut. I run boots with double BOA only so that upper and lower zones can be tuned independently (Burton Swath).
Since this is a ski forum I will get to the salient point: The BOA Warranty is FANTASTIC! I twice broke a dial (calf dial, not boot tongue dial) off a boot by grazing tree branches. In each case the replacement parts reached me in Japan within 72 hours of submitting the claim. The claim process on the website is incredibly simple and comprehensive. Recommended. https://www.boafit.com/en-us/support/warranty
This thread is representative of why I hate BOA.
Every BOA I've ever had broke within a season (my sample size is ~5 pairs of bike shoes). And yes, to be certain, BOA's warranty is great and the repair is easy. But you know what's even better than BOA's warranty: not having to repair my fucking shoe in the first place. Finishing a bike ride with a floppy, not-closed-because-of-stupid-BOA bike shoe sucks. So now I only buy bike shoes with laces, because even if a lace breaks (which happens far less often than boa's breaking) I can tie it off and finish my ride like normal.
Have you been breaking the cartridge style dials or the previous ones where the dial was permanently fixed into the shoe? I race a bit of DH mountain bike and I use BOA shoes and I have knocked a dial off a couple of times on rocks and logs but I have never managed to do any damage that would prevent the shoe from working once I push the dial back on. Now if you were using the older style where if you break off a dial you cant just push it back on I could totally see how you would have a negative opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I think all of mine were the older style, but my failures weren't confined to issues with the dial.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
But even just the dial popping off in a "fixable failure" seems really annoying. Like, how lazy are we as a population where laces are so difficult that we've opted for plastic failure prone bullshit?
I should have clarified at the top that I was specifically interested in feedback on BOA alpine ski boots. From what I understand it is a significantly different mechanism than what has been used previously on bike shoes, snowboard boots, touring boots, etc. Hoping to get some feedback now that some folks have a season on them.
I think this makes a really good point though. Firstly having a dial which could break or damage a boot was a no go so from the very start we pushed for a system which had a fail safe built in but which was also really easy to fix on the hill or be worked on by anyone at home.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
The second point is interesting too. If we could not improve upon what was currently offered in ski boots, ie buckles, then you would be correct. The potential slight hassle of a dial popping off would in no way be worth it. Instead we had to ensure the system was working so much better than what was currently available that a possible slight inconvenience every now and again was acceptable.
I feel strongly this is where we got to with the BOA system in alpine. The fit is much better, the wrap you can get and the pressure distribution just can not be matched with buckles. This improved fit has also been shown to make the boots ski better. I will link the study in question but the same boot was tested and the only change was switching the closure method from BOA to buckles. It was found skiers could initiate turns 10% quicker and apply 4-6% more force through the turn. Again this was an identical boot and the only difference was buckles or BOA.
Now you certainly could argue that a perfectly fitted buckle boot would perform as well but the reality is not many people are able to get a perfect fit so having the BOA system be able to quantifiably improve a boot where the only change is switching buckles for BOA is a big step forward in my opinion. Many more skiers will get a boot which not only fits better but also skis better.
This is the study I referenced. Its a pretty lengthy read but I happy to answer questions if any of you have any. Its worth a look if you are interested in ski boots or fitting in general.
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles...3.1192737/full
I put over 100 days on a pair of Scarpa F1s with BOA. Boots were scratched to hell from scrambling on rocks. Never had a single issue with the BOA.
During a big ride once I broke a cable on my BOA, so I put a square knot in it, tightened her up and finished the ride. I later fixed it and put a spare cable in my under seat bag, NBD.Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
Right now I have a BOA my F1LT’s and I don’t like it. I want the F1XT (which came out after and that sucks for me). Nonetheless, the reason I don’t like it is I cannot get it tight enough.
I've also knotted broken cables with success. As I said earlier, the fragility is WELL worth it to me for the performance benefit. It's the same as anything else--350g carbon rims aren't as durable as 500g aluminum ones, but I'm willing to take that for the performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by plugboots
The problem with the F1 is likely that the instep is just too high. The BOA can only tighten so much, just like a buckle. I put 4+mm of foam under the tongue of my F1s and RSs to take up that space.
I keep different volume tongues on hand to dial in boot volume.Quote:
The problem with the F1 is likely that the instep is just too high.
https://intuitionliners.com/shop/pro-tour-tongues/
Hmmmmmmm…Quote:
Originally Posted by climberevan
This is obviously coming from a brand that is using BOA, so take it as you will, but this new system (wonderfully named H+i1) is light years beyond the previous systems in terms of durability. If you would damage your BOA dial to the point that it is not functioning, you would have nuked a buckle or at least bent the baseplate in such a way that it cannot function. In order to cut this new, thicker stainless steel cable, you literally need good cable snips. And even then it will probably take you a couple of cuts (as it did in Ski Monster's BOA repair video haha).Quote:
Originally Posted by toast2266
I'm still running the 2018 proto version I was given and have yet to find it any less durable than the buckles it replaced.
I purchased my first set of Power wraps after the cable in my scarpas snapped. Not a fan of BOA. I'd rather go with lace ups...maybe even velcro, although securing liners with Booster straps are still gold standard.
My boots fit me well. I keep the lower two just tight enough to stay closed. And it's not unusual for me to get on the chair and discover that I've forgotten to buckle them at all. So I'm wondering why I need this fabulous new way of closing my boots.
Every boot fitter should tell every skier that in a properly sized & fit boot, you close your shell buckles on a loose setting. This is because buckles do not wrap a shell properly - they tighten and then collapse the shell, causing pressure points. When the shell wraps around your foot more evenly, you can tighten the boot without getting those pressure points. This is what the BOA system achieves. So yes, I can ski my 1cm shell fit, foam liner boots with my shell not tightened but I can also wrap the shell around my foot more comfortably, increase responsiveness, and not put undue pressure on my foot. It's just better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beder
I wonder whether, in addition to the obvious potential to snap the cable or sustaining a knob malfunction, there exists a point at which the knob mechanism will get caked with ice and/or otherwise freeze. I would hate to have to wait for my knob to thaw before taking boots off after 6 hours in them in icy cold conditions.
We have not found that problem yet in over 4 years of testing. One reason it does not happen is the dial is bi-directional so simply turning the dial in both directions will totally clear any ice build-up which may possibly occur. As Matt said most of us are still using the exact same setups we first got years ago, which is not something I can say for any buckle boot I have tested.Quote:
Originally Posted by schindlerpiste
While some skepticism is probably reasonable there is some extreme FUD in this thread from those who can’t seem to understand that this new boot BOA is radically different from the stuff of old used on bike shoes and light touring boots.
When can we get a hawx ultra fit and stance boot with boas and redster weight? Extra points for a 140 flex. Pretty sure you can sell one pair of 28.5s
This. I don’t have a dog in the fight and won’t be buying new boots for several more years (hopefully), but the “anti” BOA arguments in here so far seem to be missing the point. Time will tell of courseQuote:
Originally Posted by dcpnz
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I can say we have that on the way from K2 :) I'm sure atomic do too though.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
I'm kinda curious to hear you expand on this experience with people testing these on sleds. Although buckles can certainly get caught too, from photos the knob sticks out WAY further than a buckle and I can see it definitely getting caught much easier. I'm sure this poses more technical challenges but I'd really like to see the dial on the top of the boot to get it away from running boards, rocks when bootpacking, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by tompietrowski
As someone with an extremely low volume foot I love the idea of Boa.
So personally I have only spent about 4 days on sleds with my pairs of BOA boots, but as I said the BOA guys sled a lot. They actually have two sleds at the factory in Denver and head up to Steamboat a lot, steamboat is where Greg the founder lives. I also know they had boots for on sledders feet as part of the long-term test program which happened pre-launch.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
As for moving the dial on top of the foot there are a number of issues with doing that. Part of the reason you get the improved wrap is the placement of the dials and the guides. Move the dial on top of the foot and you could lose the first cross over the instep. You could potentially use the dual pull dial instead but then you are complicating things and it's unlikely you will get such a good closure. Instead, we worked to ensure the dial was well protected. We built up a fairly substantial deflector around the dial both from the front and bottom. The dial itself will require a reasonable amount of force to dislodge and I can say I have yet to dislodge a dial in over 4 years and that is not through lack of trying. We purposely don't baby the boots just to see what could happen. This is my original test boot and you can see some of the damage the dial got but it has never once disengaged.
Attachment 470289
Seconded. I’ve got LV feet and I alternate between buckles off with sloppy skiing and buckles tight with my feet cramping up or going numb. Excited to try BOA but waiting for some heavy LV styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by carlh
Not doubting that BOA will help, but have you tried on something like a Lange RS 140? It’s drastically lower volume than an RX 130 LV. Much much more than the 2mm stated last difference would suggest. Like going from some buckles almost maxed out, to almost as loose as they can go.Quote:
Originally Posted by CouloirInTheLines
Posting this video for a couple of reasons:
1. it demonstrates the repair process and how straightforward it is.
2. it shows the type of force required to pop the dial off its mounting plate (officially known as the "bayonet").
3. it shows the difficulty of cutting the cable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW7wYgRJLK8
I haven’t but will keep on the radar. Probably not buying new boots this year anyway for budget reasons but will add that to the list to try when I’m ready. Currently on Hawx Ultras from a few years ago.
Not trying to be a dick, but that's a very pristine looking boot for 4 seasons of wear. That's probably less than a season for me. This is what my touring boots look like after 4.5 seasons of backcountry skiing (weekend warrior, around 20-25 days of touring a year).
Attachment 470347