Rant about inexplicable corporate decisions (first up, the Nissan Armada!)

What are some corporate decisions that you can't for the life of you understand? Situations where a random person off the street - or possibly even a monkey with a typewriter - could have made better decisions than highly paid executives. Pretty much everything Elon Musk has done with Twitter/X could qualify, but the Land Cruiser thread made me think about competitors, and I want to talk about Nissan.

I really don't understand what Nissan is doing/not doing with the Armada. Right now, everyone car company is jumping onto the overlanding/offroading bandwagon and printing money. Half the time they just toss on some plastic cladding on a crossover and call it a day. Nissan seems aware of this. They have the Pathfinder Rock Creek, a "rugged" version of a crossover based on a FWD platform. You go to their website though, and there it is, out taming nature.

Then there is the Armada. While for much of its history it was a somewhat shitty Titan-based vehicle unique to the US market, since 2017 the Armada is basically a slightly downgraded Y62 Nissan Patrol. The Patrol is a pretty legendary offroad vehicle in the global market, and competes directly against the Land Cruiser in markets like Australia and the Middle East. There is huge aftermarket support for overland style builds. The current Armada lacks the electronic locking rear differential that the Patrol gets, but it still is a body on frame, Japan-built SUV with a big, naturally aspirated V8, center locking differential, two speed transfer case giving it true 4 Lo, over 9 inches of stock ground clearance, a generous payload/towing capacity, and stock 33 in tires. I understand not wanting to sink money into an old platform, but it seems all Nissan would have had to do was lean into the Patrol heritage in a few commercials, add a package with A/T tires and it would have been good to go. Maybe add a couple extra skid plates if you want to go wild. But the point is, it's already a weirdly capable SUV for how it's positioned, versus everything else which is somewhat the opposite.

But what does Nissan do? They add 22 in wheels. Go to their website and the landing image for the website is of the Armada driving on smooth pavement through a city. Even the Rogue - which I literally forgot existed - gets more pictures of it out doing "off road" things. The Arriya - their electric SUV - has a landing image showing it driving on dirt. Basically everything but the one legit capable, world famous adventure vehicle which they insist on disguising. The Infiniti QX 56/80 has been based on the Y62 Patrol for even longer than the Armada, but there I at least understand as it's being sold as a luxury vehicle. I don't even know what the Armada is marketed as. The full-sized choice for people who can't get approved for a loan on a Tahoe? It just baffles me.

So, what are your examples of inexplicable corporate decisions?

Uhm, it's mf'n Nissan. The last 25 years in the US market has not been all that successful, for that matter globally. At least they are honest that most truck and SUV buyers NEVER go off pavement.

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Originally Posted by MarcusBrody

What are some corporate decisions that you can't for the life of you understand?

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eliminating the geo tracker… most capable low-cost full frame 4wd vehicle the United States has ever seen.

Attachment 468731


fact.

Anything Nissan has done from a brand growth perspective, design perspective and even quality perspective has been severely questionable since the end of the 90s.

Think about it, they had offerings that either dominated their segment or at least competed with the big boys. The Z twin-turbo, the Pathfinder and hardbody pickup (even the Xterra as flawed as that thing was), Maxima, they made a fucking hi-ace type van that was sold here, and Infiniti's offerings were still at least cross-shopped with Lexus, Acura and the Germans.

What do they make now? The Z, which is still arguably the only good vehicle they make, the aforementioned Armada (I've rented one twice, horrible vehicle) and a sea of either stolen or yet to be stolen Altimas that will eventually be used in the commission of a crime or at the very least rear-end you while doing 100 in a 35mph zone by a driver with a suspended license and no insurance.

Great company.

The company formerly helmed by a weirdo who smuggled himself out of Japan in an upright base case did something weird? Zoot alors!

the high school teacher every girl crushed on drove a 300ZXTT, but it never sold well. The GT-R was worse, with probably worse promotion spending if the rented out Tahoe Ritz-Carlton was more than a oneoff

Carlos Ghosn FTMFW. Or something.

I wanted to like the Patrol/Armada, but so much plastic... IIRC the Infiniti QX80 retained more of the Patrol off-road stuff, but mo money.

I like the Xterra / Frontier / Navara. But otherwise... Anyone want to buy a 4DSC with FWD and a CVT?

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Originally Posted by dunfree

The company formerly helmed by a weirdo who smuggled himself out of Japan in an upright base case did something weird? Zoot alors!

the high school teacher every girl crushed on drove a 300ZXTT, but it never sold well. The GT-R was worse, with probably worse promotion spending if the rented out Tahoe Ritz-Carlton was more than a oneoff

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Carlos Ghosn FTMFW. Or something.

I wanted to like the Patrol/Armada, but so much plastic... IIRC the Infiniti QX80 retained more of the Patrol off-road stuff, but mo money.

I like the Xterra / Frontier / Navara. But otherwise... Anyone want to buy a 4DSC with FWD and a CVT?

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Wow, great recall fellas. Forgot all about that goofy bastard's story.

I guess they'll always have that over the likes of Alfa, Toyota and Cadillac.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

Wow, great recall fellas. Forgot all about that goofy bastard's story.

I guess they'll always have that over the likes of Alfa, Toyota and Cadillac.

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Alfa? The prior part of FIAT? Where the heir who decided his Ferrari convertible needed denim seats was found v naked and comatose with a trans hooker?

His grandfather? had great taste in clothing, boats (check out the detailing) and women, but Lapo? Oof.

This is style

Hasn’t been worth a shit since they stopped calling them Datsuns in the US.

Fact

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Originally Posted by mcski

Hasn’t been worth a shit since they stopped calling them Datsuns in the US.

Fact

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Datsun 510 was a pretty sweet ride for a high school kid with $500 and a craftsman socket set in 1982.

If we’re still piling on Nissan I have a TR from today visiting car dealers.

GF is looking for a new car so we swing by one of the Honda dealers tonight. After 7p of course so perfect trolling hour, we pull in and realize it’s also a Nissan store. We’re looking for a hybrid CR-V and there isn’t a single one on the lot, nor pretty much any other new Honda product. But on the Nissan side of the lot there’s 5-6 of pretty much every new vehicle in their line, plus a hot yellow Z. So either their the only brand that has the supply chain licked or their shit ain’t selling.


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The constant soccer-momification of once cool vehicles...maybe not an inexplicable decision since carmakers sell them by the boatload. But definitely disappointing and annoying as a consumer who hates it when everything gets dumbed down.

Nissan turning the Pathfinder into a generic suv is one example.

Chevy bringing back the Blazer as a lame crossover was a headscratcher. They could have named it anything and people would have bought it in droves. The Blazer should have been resurrected as a capable SUV like the Bronco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dunfree

Alfa? The prior part of FIAT? Where the heir who decided his Ferrari convertible needed denim seats was found v naked and comatose with a trans hooker?

His grandfather? had great taste in clothing, boats (check out the detailing) and women, but Lapo? Oof.

This is style

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See? Even though there's crazy in that line there's still taste. Nissan just went for the full-freight crazy.

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Originally Posted by evdog

The constant soccer-momification of once cool vehicles...maybe not an inexplicable decision since carmakers sell them by the boatload. But definitely disappointing and annoying as a consumer who hates it when everything gets dumbed down.

Nissan turning the Pathfinder into a generic suv is one example.

Chevy bringing back the Blazer as a lame crossover was a headscratcher. They could have named it anything and people would have bought it in droves. The Blazer should have been resurrected as a capable SUV like the Bronco.

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Whatever that thing is that they call a Blazer now is an insult to everything that wore that badge in the past. Including all S-10 pickups, but especially the ZR-2s and 2 door Blazers of the 90s.

The fuck is wrong with car companies anymore?

it's the industries willful inability to move on name wise after significant structural changes to the vehicles that's the real fucking travesty here... that's how we end up with shit like yer gotdamned 4 door mustang, shown here in it's sheriffs mugshot upon booking for disturbing of the peace... and littering.



https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/f...ound%7C875:492



fact.

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

The fuck is wrong with car companies anymore?

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SUVs

What happened to Isuzu?

“Dogs LOVE trucks!”

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Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

SUVs

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Not wrong.

Are they even SUVs anymore?

As someone pointed out in the other thread, they're just "cars" now. Bland, high-sitting, bloated, anti-utility, faceless, nameless, boring ass iPod carriers. Some with AMG shift knobs.

Ford did not green light this thing...

https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/f...und%7C1000:625
Mustang Concepts You Need to See

Ford’s Shelby-inspired Cougar II two-seat concept was another whack at the sports car market with a powerful V-8 and lightweight body. Ford management said

Ford’s Shelby-inspired Cougar II two-seat concept was another whack at the sports car market with a powerful V-8 and lightweight body. Ford management said no.

sad fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcusBrody

What are some corporate decisions that you can't for the life of you understand? Situations where a random person off the street - or possibly even a monkey with a typewriter - could have made better decisions than highly paid executives. Pretty much everything Elon Musk has done with Twitter/X could qualify, but the Land Cruiser thread made me think about competitors, and I want to talk about Nissan.

I really don't understand what Nissan is doing/not doing with the Armada. Right now, everyone car company is jumping onto the overlanding/offroading bandwagon and printing money. Half the time they just toss on some plastic cladding on a crossover and call it a day. Nissan seems aware of this. They have the Pathfinder Rock Creek, a "rugged" version of a crossover based on a FWD platform. You go to their website though, and there it is, out taming nature.

Then there is the Armada. While for much of its history it was a somewhat shitty Titan-based vehicle unique to the US market, since 2017 the Armada is basically a slightly downgraded Y62 Nissan Patrol. The Patrol is a pretty legendary offroad vehicle in the global market, and competes directly against the Land Cruiser in markets like Australia and the Middle East. There is huge aftermarket support for overland style builds. The current Armada lacks the electronic locking rear differential that the Patrol gets, but it still is a body on frame, Japan-built SUV with a big, naturally aspirated V8, center locking differential, two speed transfer case giving it true 4 Lo, over 9 inches of stock ground clearance, a generous payload/towing capacity, and stock 33 in tires. I understand not wanting to sink money into an old platform, but it seems all Nissan would have had to do was lean into the Patrol heritage in a few commercials, add a package with A/T tires and it would have been good to go. Maybe add a couple extra skid plates if you want to go wild. But the point is, it's already a weirdly capable SUV for how it's positioned, versus everything else which is somewhat the opposite.

But what does Nissan do? They add 22 in wheels. Go to their website and the landing image for the website is of the Armada driving on smooth pavement through a city. Even the Rogue - which I literally forgot existed - gets more pictures of it out doing "off road" things. The Arriya - their electric SUV - has a landing image showing it driving on dirt. Basically everything but the one legit capable, world famous adventure vehicle which they insist on disguising. The Infiniti QX 56/80 has been based on the Y62 Patrol for even longer than the Armada, but there I at least understand as it's being sold as a luxury vehicle. I don't even know what the Armada is marketed as. The full-sized choice for people who can't get approved for a loan on a Tahoe? It just baffles me.

So, what are your examples of inexplicable corporate decisions?

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I've driven an Armada and a Jeep Wagoneer for a couple of days each in the last year or so.

What god awful vehicles.

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

Datsun 510 was a pretty sweet ride for a high school kid with $500 and a craftsman socket set in 1982.

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My first was an 81 200SX I got in senior year. I still have the 3/8 Craftsman socket set I bought when I got that car :)

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Originally Posted by m2711c

it's the industries willful inability to move on name wise after significant structural changes to the vehicles that's the real fucking travesty here... that's how we end up with shit like yer gotdamned 4 door mustang, shown here in it's sheriffs mugshot upon booking for disturbing of the peace... and littering.



https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/f...ound%7C875:492



fact.

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Nice 8x10 glossy photograph, but you forgot the circles and arrows and the paragraph on the back explaining it.

Wow, I don't think a dedicated Armada forum would be as active as this.

1. New Coke
2. Anything Kodak has done for the last 30 yrs.

Bought a 1991 Nissan 2wd brand new in 92, $ 7200.00. Some kid in a Suzuki Samurai pulled out in front of me just outside St. Anthony ID and I totaled it. His parents owned to local Implement dealership so they covered the loss of the truck & camper shell, Kayak and paddle and some other things. I bought a 2nd Nissan and drove it until 2003. Put 200K on it with zero trouble or complaints. Sold it to a buddies company for $ 1600.00 and it is still running. Bought a 4 WD Frontier king cab XE, $ 26,000.00. Drove it until 2018, only issue was the fuel pump went out, Nissan warrantied that. Sold it in 2018 for $ 3600.00 with 180K on the odometer to a rancher out east. Bought a 2018 Frontier Crew Cab for $ 30,000.00, currently it has 108K (work truck). I feel the paint is a bit thin and the mileage is the same as a full sized PU but it is a decent ride and I am happy with it. Very little difference over a Tacoma except for about $ 10K

Point is, Nissan makes a lot of shit vehicles but their PU trucks are OK.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Wow, I don't think a dedicated Armada forum would be as active as this.

1. New Coke
2. Anything Kodak has done for the last 30 yrs.

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Give people who already have too much time on their hands something to bitch about and watch them go. (myself included)

New Coke, I still laugh at that.

Crystal Pepsi?

And now for something completely different .....

Peet's Coffee and Tea deciding that buying out "Mighty Leaf" Tea was the perfect excuse to reduce their already limited tea selection even further and keep the name "Mighty Leaf". You're dead to me, Peet's.

I'm still trying to figure out the Mustang suv thing.

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Originally Posted by Thaleia

I'm still trying to figure out the Mustang suv thing.

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When you figure that one out, see if you can make sense of whatever this is. Apparently they sell.

https://content.homenetiol.com/20002...2c711db192.jpg

Did BMW start this thing with the X4/6? You don't see many Audi Sportbacks for some reason, but they make em.

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Originally Posted by Timberridge

Did BMW start this thing with the X4/6? You don't see many Audi Sportbacks for some reason, but they make em.

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Yes they did, and Clarkson's initial review of the X6 was hilarious.

Or how about corporations shitting all over their core demos? Most egregious example I can think of was when Proctor & Gamble ran those Gillette toxic masculinity ads few years back. I think that move cost 'em like $5 billion dollars in lost sales, and I'm not sure they've ever been able to claw those sales back from their competitors who got boosted from the whole fiasco. Then the CEO doubled down by saying that losing customers "was a price worth paying." Like, we all can agree that women shouldn't be harassed and all, but is telling your core consumer how they need to "do better" really a winning strategy for profits?

Gillette ads went from being motivational and inspirational to men back when I was young like this classic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ThDBf14qPsc

To this one telling us how much we suck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYaY2Kb_PKI

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatnslow

Uhm, it's mf'n Nissan. The last 25 years in the US market has not been all that successful, for that matter globally. At least they are honest that most truck and SUV buyers NEVER go off pavement.

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I would agree except that they play up the off-pavement angle of their non-capable SUVs. It's like the worst of all worlds. But as you say, maybe that's Nissan's MO in the US market.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Or how about corporations shitting all over their core demos? Most egregious example I can think of was when Proctor & Gamble ran those Gillette toxic masculinity ads few years back. I think that move cost 'em like $5 billion dollars in lost sales, and I'm not sure they've ever been able to claw those sales back from their competitors who got boosted from the whole fiasco. Then the CEO doubled down by saying that losing customers "was a price worth paying." Like, we all can agree that women shouldn't be harassed and all, but is telling your core consumer how they need to "do better" really a winning strategy for profits?

Gillette ads went from being motivational and inspirational to men back when I was young like this classic:
To this one telling us how much we suck:

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I think it might be more a misunderstanding of your key demographic than intentionally shitting on them. Ads are always aspirational. I assume that Gillette assumed that men want to consider themselves "one of the good guys" and they wanted them to associate their brand with being one of the good guys. But they apparently didn't understand that a lot of men would focus on their connection to the part where they pointed out bad stuff and take it as "shitting on them" rather than associating themselves with the men who are not being assholes at the end of the ad.

Kind of the same with the Bud Lite/trans Influencer thing. In terms of who I'm prejudiced against in society, influencers rank pretty highly. But it would never occur to me to not do something I'm already doing just because they were promoting something. I assume the Bud Lite marketer just imagined that they could expand into a new segment. They totally misunderstood that part of their key demographic truly HATES trans people. To the point that they want to bring down anything associated with them. Should they have been able to see that coming? Maybe. But I see it as a scenario where they less meant to slap the key demographic in the face, and more they just assumed it would be totally unrelated to the key demographic.

The diesel version of the LesboStrap 5000

Quote:

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Originally Posted by m2711c

eliminating the geo tracker… most capable low-cost full frame 4wd vehicle the United States has ever seen.
.

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If we're talking about 4WDs that corporate should have never killed off, you have to start with the Jeep XJ.

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Originally Posted by irul&ublo

The diesel version of the LesboStrap 5000

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I can't believe they discontinued it. A gas engine is never going to give you those deep throbbing vibrations!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcusBrody

I would agree except that they play up the off-pavement angle of their non-capable SUVs. It's like the worst of all worlds. But as you say, maybe that's Nissan's MO in the US market.



I think it might be more a misunderstanding of your key demographic than intentionally shitting on them. Ads are always aspirational. I assume that Gillette assumed that men want to consider themselves "one of the good guys" and they wanted them to associate their brand with being one of the good guys. But they apparently didn't understand that a lot of men would focus on their connection to the part where they pointed out bad stuff and take it as "shitting on them" rather than associating themselves with the men who are not being assholes at the end of the ad.

Kind of the same with the Bud Lite/trans Influencer thing. In terms of who I'm prejudiced against in society, influencers rank pretty highly. But it would never occur to me to not do something I'm already doing just because they were promoting something. I assume the Bud Lite marketer just imagined that they could expand into a new segment. They totally misunderstood that part of their key demographic truly HATES trans people. To the point that they want to bring down anything associated with them. Should they have been able to see that coming? Maybe. But I see it as a scenario where they less meant to slap the key demographic in the face, and more they just assumed it would be totally unrelated to the key demographic.

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bud lite paid a few $k to a not very well known influencer to try and do something different, which is what some marketers do, and it blew up. Bud had marketed to people their supposed core hates for decades. Decades. There were rainbow bud signs in the oughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcusBrody

I think it might be more a misunderstanding of your key demographic than intentionally shitting on them.

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That's probably true, but when a marketing executive has a mere "misunderstanding" of their very product's key demographic, then they obviously suck at their job. Bad. It's LITERALLY their job to understand their customers inside and out. At least that USED to be Advertising 101. Know thy customer.

I never saw the can IRL, did you?

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Originally Posted by hatchgreenchile

If we're talking about 4WDs that corporate should have never killed off, you have to start with the Jeep XJ.

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I'd buy a new or well preserved one today, if a reasonable price.

They wouldn't pass current crash tests or emissions, and that long lived 4.0L is pretty weak by today's engine standards.

But the XJ is and shall always be the best real off road worthy SUV.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BmillsSkier

When you figure that one out, see if you can make sense of whatever this is. Apparently they sell.

https://content.homenetiol.com/20002...2c711db192.jpg

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Ha! We're all geezers on this bus.
Takes a little getting used to but I love mine - it's a C class, 43 ......... but I AMG'd the fuck out of it!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

But the XJ is and shall always be the best real off road worthy SUV.

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Save the 1991-1995 Nissan Pathfinder. Ironically.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PB

Ha! We're all geezers on this bus.
Takes a little getting used to but I love mine - it's a C class, 43 ......... but I AMG'd the fuck out of it!

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Hey man, I'm happy for you, or anyone, that loves what they drive. That's what makes car talk so much fun. People like what they like and other people sometimes don't. Cheers!