From 4 days ago, March 9
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/76444
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From 4 days ago, March 9
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/76444
Ooof. “Guided”.
RIP.
Tourons have so much faith in guides. But there’s no guarantees.
Thing two is getting smarter in snow science. But I’m worried about thing one. It’s a calculated decision. Every time. But it seems easy. Until it isn’t.
Tourons as you say, think lift op is a job that lets you ski a ton, not. Being a ‘guide’ in America means you know about the mountains, not. Euro guides from Europe are a different story.
Can you clowns be quiet until the final report comes out? Core shot, you are the definition of a touron - you go out west maybe once a year and live in the midwest. No one cares you got rad for a few seasons -20 years ago- at jackson before moving east and your deep thoughts about an avie 1000 miles away. Rudi, you are indirectly shitting on a guide who killed a client (or maybe the guide died?) without knowing anything about him/her.
Ouch. Mute yourself and get reborn.
It was a small comment about faith in guides vs making your own assessment of snowpack.
And Rudi made a fair point about US vs euro guide certification.
PS. I am a touron. And yes my best days are behind me. But I still like to ski and live another day to ski again. Sorry. Vibes.
I’ve skied with this operation. They are professional and “know about the mountains”. They haven’t had a fatality in their nearly 3 decades of operation. Tragedies happen in the mountains. In the US. In Europe. In Japan. “Tourons” die, pros die, guides die. It’s not a joke to dunk on. Muted reborn gave you good advice, wait for the final report. Learn it’s lessons.
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Word
+100Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
thanks Muted
RIP to the individual who passed away, and sincere condolences to the guide and outfit - that must be incredibly difficult. jesus.
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Elevation, aspect, and terrain features are somewhat reminiscent of the White Snake slide in BCC some years back, also a guided party, also a fatality. Very different snowpack this year, and there's rarely any comparison between what we get in the Wasatch and in the Uintas.
No conclusions to be drawn yet, except maybe that those S faces which I (we??) traditionally regard as safer (given their lower likelihood of developing hoars/surface facets which eventually turn into a persistent weak layer) are in fact not something that can be trusted blindly.
RIP to the victim, and best of luck to those involved as I'm sure there's some mental trauma there to be dealt with.
Looking at the picture, shadows, and the terrain map, the overall slope angle is SE but that side of the small gully looks to be much more straight east or even slightly ENE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coño Frío
Agreed, this one is spooky.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boissal
That area is pretty wild.... Toured out there a ton during my days in PC in the 90s and early 2000's before the operation took over and we lost one of the better touring zones.
Vibes to All who were out there the other day... RIP
Fuck PC Powcats. While it’s true they haven’t had a fatality, they certainly have had clients take rides with their “guides” in the past. Mrs. Savalas took a ride after following her guide. Lost skis and partial burial. Thankfully she was uninjured.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coño Frío
Those motjerfuckers were more concerned about bad press than her well being. Not even a phone call to see if she was okay.
Fuck Weston D and Scott H. PCPC quietly swept this under the rug as they were trying to join WBR. They’re still not part of WBR.
/end rant
Condolences to the victim’s family.
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It only took over a month for the final report.
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/78246
The lack of photos and/or videos in this report compared to previous ones is interesting.
How so? The report is informative and complete and tells the story.
The operation is probably going to get sued so they are doing what most companies do when faced with possible litigation.
Compared to what the CAIC puts out, that report was lacking. That was my first thought when reading it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
The report on the Pole Canyon avalanche had pictures from multiple angles of the slide path and crown and had two videos; one of which included fly over drone footage of the entire avalanche and debris. This report has one photo, taken from a distance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Just seems like less documentation than the UAC normally provides on these sorts of reports.
They didn't say if skier 3 or skier 4 died, weird.
usually avie reports from here are very thorough, like this one : https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/59084Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenboy
True. That one is pretty much required reading. Although I can't think of many CAIC reports that seemed as light on info as this Weber Canyon one. As noted above, one photo that barely showed anything, etc. And guide 1 passed a beacon? It wasn't that clear how that happened, IMO. But I guess it shouldn't be too surprising given that this was guided and as Bunion noted, there may be lawsuits.Quote:
Originally Posted by muted reborn
burial times, photos conspicuously absent.
I want more discussion of the actual slide- we got a lot more from the pole canyon event. I only follow the Salt Lake region, where the S facing weak layer had been a forecast discussion point (but not a full PWL forecast item) for some time. I suspect UAC is freaked out as well and staying somewhat mum in addition to playing ball with PCPC to provide with even what weve got here.
Not pointing fingers- this is a terrible event and I can only imagine what the affected parties (bereaved, PCPC, UAC) are going through. Not pretending that I know any better. I just hate that our tendency towards litigation gets in the way of fully transparent and open discussion and learning.
This is what a report should look like by a state agency even with anticipated litigation:
https://classic.avalanche.state.co.u...=685&accfm=inv
i thought this article was pretty good
https://coloradosun.com/2023/03/13/c...ation-reports/
that report and a month to do it
not so much
it seems like tysens uma/exum final report on the whitesnake slide a few seasons ago
it sure seems like the do sponsers accident/fatality reports different from others
which seems to speaks to the politics of money
imo
Ideally? Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark
However operations like PCPCs are under no obligation to share any information with anyone except the Coroner and Sheriff. And my guess would be that the UAC will accept all info offered but not press due to them not wanting to end up being called to testify in the event of litigation. Its a fine line for a forecast center to have to walk.
See comments here: https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...port-avalanche
It's my contention that given your scenario, they aren't doing their job. Everyone in every profession faces potential litigation every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Vibes. Seems to me the biggest missing info is how skier 4 ended up on the slope at the same time as skier 3.
Vibes and RIP
Park City tour operator sued by wife of skier killed in Uintas avalanche
I can't imagine it goes to a court room but interesting development on this tragedy. Lots of new info in the lawsuit. Guests weren't carrying probes and shovels?? UAC didn't (or wasn't allowed to) interview the other clients? His wife wasn't notified for 3 days?! I will be curious to follow the outcome.
Seems fucked to me. I've never done any heli, cat, or otherwise guided skiing, but this strikes me as a poor practice.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileyFace
Actually quite common for heli and cat ops.
That is changing. A lot of heliski operations now require guests to ware a small day pack with a shovel and probe in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowaddict91
I dont know that beacon only is unusual for a cat operation.
My limited experience is every heli op has provided avy pack w/ shovel, beacon, probe and required a basic training session before flying, cat ops have provided beacon only and touring guides have always checked my personal beacon and other gear - I’d attribute different cat protocols due to terrain and presence of tail guide
Was surprised because all the operations I am personally familiar with require carrying shovels and probes. I ended up looking online at a few other ops and found that requiring only a beacon is common among Cat operations mostly. Heli operations seem to require all the gear more frequently.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacksaw
Getting a bunch of rando clients to shovel and actually turn their beacons off in a rescue sounds like an impossible task, but you have to wonder about having those extra shovels digging.
I've been out with one cat-ski op and two heli-ski ops and each time we were provided with a transceiver, probe, and shovel, and given a brief training session on how to use them. It wasn't much, but it wasn't nothing. This was all in Canada, so maybe things are different in the US. I haven't heard of any operations in Canada not doing avalanche safety training.Quote:
Originally Posted by ASmileyFace
Having a burial with 5 clients and one guide with one shovel and probe between them all sounds fucked. I wouldn't ski with an operation like that.
It only makes sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by summit