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Been out of things for a bit with kids etc. and now need some new clamps for the new skis as I get back into it. What's the current hotness in alpine binders for mediocre skiers? I don't need DIN 18 or anything crazy, just a din 14ish binding compatible with gripwalk.
Looks like STH's and Pivots are still about, but what say the collective? Help someone in Jongland.
Not really any bad bindings these days.
Pivots still have the best heel elasticity on the market. The metal toe 15/18 is slightly less elastic than the plastic 12/14 toe, but more durable.
STH2 have the highest toe elastic travel but less heel elastic travel. Good bindings.
I haven't skied them but the Tyrolia AAAttack series has a lot of fans. Seems to be a good, simple, durable, lightweight binding that can be had inexpensively. Less elastic travel than the Solly or Look stuff.
Marker's are fine but I don't see a compelling reason to buy them over the other options available now. I've known a few people that have broken them.
I have Pivots on three pairs of skis and STH2 on one.
Attack 13/14 GW - best value per dollar imo, work great, minimal issues, good price
STH2 13 - great performance, good adjustability, little issues, very tried and true
pivot 15/18 - best performance, most expensive, significantly more heel elasticity, small mount pattern, not much bsl adjustability, brake mechanism susceptible to braking if you're skiing switch a lot
I'd just go with attacks unless you can find STHs at a better price
Edit: if you like orange, these are a great price: https://www.the-house.com/sa1sw13100...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
Reminder that the cheaper Look SPX have nearly as much heel elasticity as the pivots, and much more than the STHs. Better heel and toe than the Attack. I like them. In our house, however, we have Pivots, SPX, Attacks and Squires.
Salomon STH:
- Elasticity – Toe: 52 mm
- Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm
Pivot:
- Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
- Elasticity – Heel: 28 mm
Look SPX:
- Elasticity – Toe: 45 mm
- Elasticity – Heel: 27 mm
Marker Jester:
- Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
- Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm
Tyrolia Attack:
- Elasticity – Toe: 30 mm
- Elasticity – Heel: 16 mm
I still use mostly hoarded Pivots these days, but if I was buying new I’d find whatever fit my release value requirements at the lowest available price. Don’t really have any significant issues with any of the standard Marker/Tyrolia/Amer/Look offerings right now.
For me, pivots ski noticeably better (shorter mount lets the ski flex more naturally). Which is *just* enough to make me prefer them over STH2's, which have a more reassuring ka-chunk engagement and much better brakes.
Pivots (15/18) also work with cast.
All current bindings are fine, but if you care about and can appreciate a particular quality of “suspension”, IMO the STH2 is the clear winner.
Differences in vertical elasticity in the heel have related minimal impact on suspension, and perhaps only matters when rebounding out of high impact landings in soft snow. Boot plastic/design and a vibration absorbing boot board matter more here.
Elastomers under the toepiece AFD provide dampening. STH2s deliver here, though I’ve never seen a comprehensive comparison in this regard.
Lateral toe elasticity is key, not just amount of elasticity until release, but also the quality of suspension , and precision of engagement. STH2s allow fine tuning of the engagement points, and (choosing the appropriate model for you DIN, too low a setting will ramp up too easily) provide an ideal (to me) smooth, firm ramp up.
Also consider, stepping in in powder, and proven durability.
Completely anecdotal experience I had on Attacks this week:
Skied a steeper rocky & icy entrance. Dropped in, hit a hard left turn, and right as my downhill ski finished exiting across the fall line it pre released. I (sloppily) one foot-skied to an island of safety.
On recovering the released ski, I found my heel track had somehow blown itself open - such that my boot would no longer fit in to the binding. Took me and my partner jerrying the track open with a metal pen to slide the heel back in a place where I could ski out (otherwise I was looking at a long, long walk off the top of Blackcomb).
Only my experience - but I’ve had pre-release issues off these bindings skiing at a 9, where as my pivots are very very reliable at the same setting.
I’d probably stick to STH / Pivots in the future, but I still have attacks on a few skis. YMMV.
Another anecdote. Attack. Well rated they say.
Put thing two on a demo pair. He wasn’t sure on boot center. So I figured demo was better.
Set his din per chart. First day in the lift line fucking around buttering etc his heel pops right out. Every time.
Had to crank his din up 1.5 more.
Not a fan anymore. Ymmv.
Just mounted a new pair for me using old sth. Pita to adjust the toes. But that binding is bomber.
Pivots are awesome as well. Very elastic.
I was looking at the different Sollys and confused on why the STH2 13 are WTR but the 16 are GW. Are the STH2 13 compatible with Gripwalk soles?
These are great notes - thanks everyone. STH's are now MNC compatible and the older WTR's are compatible with GW.
Traditionally been on pivots, so well used to that feel (though they always felt a little rubbery) and enjoy the ka-chunk. Glad we don't have a nu-marker or explosion prone option. Always enjoyed my S900's and 914's so I enjoy the kerchunks.
Any thoughts on Griffons, Wardens or Strives?
Activejunkey has 14% at the house right now which brings those down to ~$100. I think they were even cheaper a month ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by PeachesNCream
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New Griffon heel is improved for ease of entry. Like Attacks, can typically be had fairly inexpensively. I've got Warden 13's on several pairs of skis (demos and retail version). Same Sollie heel with an MNC toe (less elastic travel but compatible with everything). No experience with the Strives. Don't see a reason to go to those when Wardens and STH2 13 closeouts can be had for so little money.
I'm curious about strives if anyone has experience with them. They're available cheap to me, low stand height and light weight is appealing but I'm wary of a first year binding
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSkua
I don’t have time to look them up right now, but they all have slightly different Delta and that is important to me. It may not be important to you.
I found this chart which seems to be accurate - https://www.powder.com/stories/an-ex...compatibility/
Ok, so GW soles are compatible with WTR bindings, but not the other way around. That clears things up.Quote:
Originally Posted by schuss
By the way, The House link is showing as sold out for me, but Level Nine has the STH2 13s for $160 right now.
You can get the armada sth2's from there for 144 with 15% off.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApexSkua
I've been on Griffons, Attacks, and STH2s. Only real gripe I have is with the Griffs and their 'phantom step in' issue as I've seen it called elsewhere. Stepping back in to Griffons after a fall, everything felt fine, only for me to walk out of one binding soon as I tried to make a turn on it. Stepped back in only for the same thing to happen to the same binding over and over despite clearing all the snow off my soles. Didn't realize to check at the time, but I think I had a lot of wet, sticky snow (Whistler) packed in to the toe piece I couldn't see. Still, if I'm gonna prerelease the moment I put weight on it, the heel shouldn't snap up like normal when stepping in?
Could be just in my head but I definitely feel the lower stand height and delta of my Attacks (the gliding afd on the Griffs probably didn't help either). But think I also heard shorter bsls (mine are 301-307) are more sensitive to delta?
Anyways, this was the previous version of the Royal bindings before they redesigned the heel piece a few seasons ago, but I have no desire to go back when my attacks are serving me just fine. Looking to try Pivots next.
I'm working on the knee but I can't just step into a baron with my new ACL
I have to get my heel as high as I can of the heelpiece so I can take a run at it
I have used multiple pairs of each sth2, warden and attacks over the past 5-10 years. all seem to work well for me, I have never came out of the STH2s, I have had a heel release on warden and attacks while going pretty fast on a groomers, I'm guessing I had snow on my heel or something. That said my preference is the STH2 but would gladly ski any of them. I do feel the STH2 and warden have a higher build quality than the attacks.
I love marketing. Check this site out: https://steep.jp/en/gear/55139/Quote:
Originally Posted by ezgzy
Check out the graphic about 1/3 way down and the advice "From left to right: STRIVE, WARDEN, STH2. It can be seen that the low center of gravity of STRIVE is remarkable"
So remarkable. The toe height of the Strive is 19mm and the heel is 24mm (t's probably actually 24.5mm because the heel looks just like an STH or Warden heel). Toe of Warden is 20.5mm and heel is 24.5mm. Toe of STH2 WTR is 18.5 and heel is 24.5; the MNC 16 is 20.5/24.5.
It's actually not remarkable and is pretty much identical to the STH WTR in stand height. Maybe selling the low center of gravity of the actual toe piece (being so low profile) is not the insane stretch I see it as?
They are light though.
I've had the phantom step in with Griffons--luckily the ski came off before I even cleared the loading ramp. And I've had trouble getting into them in powder, but it's been awhile--some here said it's improved;
Marker comp 28
I’ve been on the STH2s for years with no issues. Tried switching over to Pivot 15’s this season cuz of FOMO and to see what all the hype is about… and I didn’t get along with them like everyone else does. I think I’m too used to the greater binding delta of the STH2s and I thought the Pivots felt less damp (which I personally didn’t like). Could it all be in my head? Yup. Am I switching back to STH2s anyways? Yup.
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Used to ski nothing but STH-12 and 14, then started using some current-gen Griffon ID's to allow rocker sole boots in the Spring when you have to hike out at the bottom. Also have a few pair of Duke PT12 with Griffon heels, and they're good. Attack2 is fine too, appreciate the low stack.
Tried Wardens and was thoroughly unimpressed, definitely prefer the low stack of the original STH series (12mm toe, 17mm heel). The original STH also has lots of metal where it counts in the heels, unlike the STH2 heel. After swapping metal toe pedestals from worn/retired STH-16 into STH-12/14 bindings, they're a pretty kick ass binding for lighter skiers. Stout yet easy step-in at a reasonable weight.
I find it interesting that there isn't more love for the SPX. Same toe piece as a pivot. The heel has way more travel than any non pivot biding on the market. Heel engages well and isn't bad to get into. And the heel adjustment is large enough to get about 3 BSL sizes to work with any mount.
I'm kind of in Toast's camp with pivots - small heel plate is nice for ski flex - but if you like pivots and need a binding that is either cheaper or more "shareable" SPX seems like it should be more popular.
Maybe it's cause if you move away from Pivots you just move away from Look altogether? Or is it because the general population still hasn't embraced the improvements that came when they redesigned the binding from PX to SPX? Maybe old habits just die hard.
Is the amount of flex increase with pivot heels quantifiable? With the stiff skis that I like I imagine any flex underfoot is imperceptible.
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Marker gets shit on but I’ve skied royal family bindings for past 10+ years with no complaints. Not the new version yet!
+1 I have one pair of SPXs and will definitely buy more in future.Quote:
Originally Posted by EWG
^ I swapped my prior-gen Griffons to the current version, it's worth doing if you can find a $130-ish deal on them next Summer. Easier step in, though probably still the hardest binding to step into in soft snow.
v
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I’ve been saying that for years. A stiff ski barely flexes underfoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
Pivots are about retention and ramp angle. And the dildo.
Great bindings.
If you like dildos. I’m firmly in the STH/9xx camp, hoarding what I can. They work great with alpine WTR/GW. They always release when I want them to and I’ve never had a prerelease. I’m old and don’t huck or go really fastQuote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
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I’ve seen it hypothesized that some of the difference in feel might be that the screws that hold the binding to the ski are directly under your feet, leading to a more direct or better power transfer. Or at least a different feel than most other bindings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Core Shot
Whatever it is, and I’m sure most of it is in my head, I have all pivots on my skis.
Yeah. Mine are all demos though and although more useful as a demo binding the new one is tall and fugly.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
Pivots /FKS are probably the most durable binding, and they have their die hard fans who will never ski anything else.
I don't like them because they feel disconnected from the ski (that rubbery feeling mentioned), the limited boot size adjustment range, and the tiny screw pattern - they are the only binding I think I've ever torn out of a ski while skiing. They also may be the heaviest binding out there.
I like Salomon because I have jigs for them. Tyrolia feels similar, as do Marker ones with the similar toes (Jester, Griffon, etc). Still happy with my pile of old Salomon 997/ 900/ etc...
Agree on the SPX - it’s a good option but there’s no metal toe 18 din version non-race version so they’re not TGR approvedQuote:
Originally Posted by EWG
Have STH2 on most skis and been happy - find them easy to get into, hold me in when they should, release when I would want them to. Have both 13 and 16 and do notice the weight difference, don’t break either and will go with whichever I get cheap or in the right color.
Got one set of pivots to try for FOMO reasons and don’t really get the fuss. They’re fine, but they’re expensive, they can be a pain to get into in certain situations and the forward pressure is a bit of a mystery. Maybe if you’re hucking, flipping, spinning then there’s a benefit that I’m not exploring🤷
I’ve been switching to SPX on a lot of my family’s new skis primarily for the toe piece because I got sick of adjusting the STH2 toe for a two boot quiver. So far so good. No quirks, they work, and they’re readily available off season for cheap.
No view on current tyrolia or marker since I haven’t used any in years.