The Atomic Ski Boot Thread

This is a bit overdue but dump your Atomic ski boot questions here and I will do my best to answer them in a semi-professional manner.

To kick this off, let me officially introduce some new boots for the 23/24 winter season (landing in shops autumn 2023):

Hawx Ultra XTD v2
Attachment 443509 Attachment 443510

Quick Stats
• Same last as before (no changes)- 98mm/26.5
• Same out-of-the-box geometry as before- 15° forward lean, 4° ramp angle.
• Same 54° of cuff ROM.
• Full PU construction, cuff & shell. No Grilamid, no Pebax, no polypropylene, no polyolefin.
• Thicker lower shell and thicker cuff for more stability, better damping, more durability for daily resort use.
• All new Mimic liner construction with our 3D stretch toe box, an adjustable/removeable tongue and a much improved Achilles Flex Zone to match the cuff movement.
• New ski/walk mechanism allows for 3 forward lean settings (no flip chips) 13°-15°-17°
• New glued-on Skywalk GripWalk rubber sole ISO 23223 (lower standheight & less weight allow us to go full PU but still keep a respectable weight).
• Available with an all new, ski boot specific BOA system or traditional buckles (assuming this will be a bigger discussion to follow)
• Unisex flexes: 130, 120, 110
• Women’s flexes: 115, 95
• 1830g / 26.5

Backland XTD Carbon 120

Attachment 443511

Quick Stats
• Imagine a Hawx Prime with 74° of better-than-Backland cuff ROM, a 120 flex and a full rubber touring norm sole (or GripWalk if you want).
• 1390g / 26.5
• 100mm, medium volume last (based on Hawx Prime)
• Same cuff height (front & rear) as Hawx Prime
• New lower shell construction blends an overlap & open-throat construction together for the best of easy on/off and foot wrapping
• Frictionless “Mirror” Pivots deliver a more free-gliding cuff than Backland (they are symmetrical & parallel in their orientation)
• New ski/walk mechanism allows for 3 forward lean settings (no flip chips) 13°-15°-17°
• Available as a touring norm ISO 9523 boot or as GripWalk (it’s not swappable, just made either way)

Ok fun and all. Important stuff, though. Can the redster cs be black with red logos, in the nordica font, next year? Would help me tricking the wife.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

How much of the Hawx weight is shell vs. liner? +400g at 26.5 is big. How's the liner compared to, say, an intuition?

Disappointed the backland is wide because it looks sweet.

How's the multiple forward lean settings work? I assume it's not just "close it and hope it locks in the one you want."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arild

Ok fun and all. Important stuff, though. Can the redster cs be black with red logos, in the nordica font, next year? Would help me tricking the wife.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

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yeah but without red boots, how will people know I'm fast?

Love that boot though

Worth noting, as you told me Matt, that the shell comes out roomier than the old hawx xtd because of less shrinkage from the PU vs the grilamid. It feels different and not just from the liner. And this is a very good thing. There is noticeably more room in the toes of the v2 ultra xtd.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arild

Ok fun and all. Important stuff, though. Can the redster cs be black with red logos, in the nordica font, next year? Would help me tricking the wife.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

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That’s not tricking. It’s just, shall we say, letting sleeping dogs lie…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Backland XTD Carbon 120

Attachment 443465

Quick Stats
• Imagine a Hawx Prime with 74° of better-than-Backland cuff ROM, a 120 flex and a full rubber touring norm sole (or GripWalk if you want).
• 1390g / 26.5
• 100mm, medium volume last (based on Hawx Prime)
• Same cuff height (front & rear) as Hawx Prime
• New lower shell construction blends an overlap & open-throat construction together for the best of easy on/off and foot wrapping
• Frictionless “Mirror” Pivots deliver a more free-gliding cuff than Backland (they are symmetrical & parallel in their orientation)

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You make me so sad. With one word: “Prime”. That should be “ultra”.

My narrow feet love the Backland Carbon, and could even do with a bit less width. I had hoped for the same fit in a beefier model. All the features sound great, I love the idea of a boot that is not super light, but has great walking. In my mind, that matters more than weight.
I have a high instep, so the open top helps me for fit, and then I have no need for a high volume last.

I will go off and cry in a corner now.

But my personal fit issues aside, it looks like a really complete line up of walk compatible boots. Let me see if I get this straight:

Beefy, PU boot for the 50/50 crowd, or people who want a touring boot with maximum ski performance. Buckle or Alpine Boa options.

Very light, super nimble boot for the all about the up crowd. With Buckles or Boa’s. Or a recreational skimo race version.

In between boot with solid weight and great walkability, with touring sole or Gripwalk.

If you can keep track of all those skus, it sure seems like you have something for everyone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bean

How much of the Hawx weight is shell vs. liner? +400g at 26.5 is big. How's the liner compared to, say, an intuition?

Disappointed the backland is wide because it looks sweet.

How's the multiple forward lean settings work? I assume it's not just "close it and hope it locks in the one you want."

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IIRC the liner is 425-ish grams, definitely heavier than an intuition but due to the Mimic material, heat moldable cuff, heat moldable tongue and adjustable tongue it will mold more precisely and be more powerful on the down.

Forward lean adjustment is the same since 2019 Backland & Prime XTD - loosen the screws, position into the setting you want, add thread lock and retighten screws. Doesn't budge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Worth noting, as you told me Matt, that the shell comes out roomier than the old hawx xtd because of less shrinkage from the PU vs the grilamid. It feels different and not just from the liner. And this is a very good thing. There is noticeably more room in the toes of the v2 ultra xtd.

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Precisely - it's now exactly on par with regular Hawx Ultra.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tjaardbreeuwer

You make me so sad. With one word: “Prime”. That should be “ultra”.

My narrow feet love the Backland Carbon, and could even do with a bit less width. I had hoped for the same fit in a beefier model. All the features sound great, I love the idea of a boot that is not super light, but has great walking. In my mind, that matters more than weight.
I have a high instep, so the open top helps me for fit, and then I have no need for a high volume last.

I will go off and cry in a corner now.

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You and me both, but we'll start here and see if anything narrower comes along in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arild

Ok fun and all. Important stuff, though. Can the redster cs be black with red logos, in the nordica font, next year? Would help me tricking the wife.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

---

You can buy one now: https://www.levelninesports.com/atom...ki-boots-2021/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tjaardbreeuwer

You make me so sad. With one word: “Prime”. That should be “ultra”.

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Buy the Hawx Ultra 130 XTD from recent years. Pretty much the same weight as this new Backland XTD, and great low-volume fit. Yeah it probably doesn't walk as well and doesn't have a full rubber sole but it skis great.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

Buy the Hawx Ultra 130 XTD from recent years. Pretty much the same weight as this new Backland XTD, and great low-volume fit. Yeah it probably doesn't walk as well and doesn't have a full rubber sole but it skis great.

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I've got a first-gen Hawx Ultra XTD 130 with an intuition and it's still doing inbounds duty but I've pulled the powerstrap screws and if I get the new XTD next year planning to remove the 4th buckle. Won't walk as well as the backland xtd but at least the weight is down there and it skis great in the BC. Maybe in a couple years there'll be a backland xtd ultra and I can move to that.

weight comparison I could find from google search:

22/23 Ultra 130 S GW (non tour) - 1785 g
19/20 Ultra XTD - 1410 g
22/23 Ultra XTD - 1580 g
23/24 Ultra XTD - 1830 g


That's a beefy touring boot with the full PU

Will new xtd liners be available separately? My first gens are long overdue for replacement.

super jong question onk - what is the point of that piece of rubber above the toe below the toe buckle?

also interested in new mimic liners for my 19/20 xtd primes

Oh cool thanks for making this I was just considering trying to get ahold of someone about my boots. Can the bushings/bearings (?) in the backland cuff pivots be adjusted or replaced? Mine seem to have some play in them. Bolts seem tight enough but I haven't tried taking it all apart. They're backland carbons I got around this time last year.

The cuff pivots are replaceable but IME the plastic ovalizes and replacing the pivot doesn't fix that. Also, it's difficult to use the little wrench to hold the interior bolt without it popping off at the torque require to uninstall. I've just dealt with the slop and they haven't exploded yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by carlh

Will new xtd liners be available separately? My first gens are long overdue for replacement.

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New Ultra XTD Mimic Platinum liners will be available, and there is a new Mimic Professional liner for the Hawx XTD boots dropping as well.

Hawx Ultra XTD Mimic Platinum:
Attachment 443507

Hawx XTD Mimic Professional (fits both Ultra & Prime XTD boots):
Attachment 443508

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NBABUCKS1

super jong question onk - what is the point of that piece of rubber above the toe below the toe buckle?

also interested in new mimic liners for my 19/20 xtd primes

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Tip sealing/toe dam - keeps water out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

IIRC the liner is 425-ish grams, definitely heavier than an intuition but due to the Mimic material, heat moldable cuff, heat moldable tongue and adjustable tongue it will mold more precisely and be more powerful on the down.

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Any more info to share on the liner? Is it available standalone? Should we think of this as a lighter ZipFit GFT (~575g in 26.5 vs. 425g claimed for what size)? How good will ROM be in a less beefy boot, comparable to Intuition Tour line?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jamal

Oh cool thanks for making this I was just considering trying to get ahold of someone about my boots. Can the bushings/bearings (?) in the backland cuff pivots be adjusted or replaced? Mine seem to have some play in them. Bolts seem tight enough but I haven't tried taking it all apart. They're backland carbons I got around this time last year.

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Yes and if there is play, you should do it sooner than later
Frictionless Pivot Set - AZE001164
(full hardware set for a pair of boots, including screws)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kamtron

The cuff pivots are replaceable but IME the plastic ovalizes and replacing the pivot doesn't fix that. Also, it's difficult to use the little wrench to hold the interior bolt without it popping off at the torque require to uninstall. I've just dealt with the slop and they haven't exploded yet.

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It's kind of like a head tube on a mountain bike in this regard. If you ride a loose headset for too long, you run the risk of ovalizing the head tube and nothing will ever fit properly again. Always best to get new parts in as soon as you notice the slop developing. Definitely try to get a thin-wall socket for the internal nut.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daywalker

Any more info to share on the liner? Is it available standalone? Should we think of this as a lighter ZipFit GFT (~575g in 26.5 vs. 425g claimed for what size)? How good will ROM be in a less beefy boot, comparable to Intuition Tour line?

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Both of the liners I posted above will be available on their own. Mimic Platinum version is in the area of 425g and the Mimic Professional is 600g+ (depends on how much foam goes in). Both will have better ROM than the GFT and the Mimic Professional is way more akin to the GFT in terms of intended purpose, power, precision, responsiveness, etc.

Just throwing out there yesterday I was in my ultra s's and hit a little dip going way too fast that I was absolutely sure was gonna pop me, but my boots absorbed the impact and flexed without folding, and I was so impressed at their performance. Probably saved me from a concussion, glad I grabbed these last season for inbounds duty!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Hawx Ultra XTD v2

Quick Stats
• Same last as before (no changes)- 98mm/26.5
• Same out-of-the-box geometry as before- 15° forward lean, 4° ramp angle.
• Same 54° of cuff ROM.
• Full PU construction, cuff & shell. No Grilamid, no Pebax, no polypropylene, no polyolefin.
• Thicker lower shell and thicker cuff for more stability, better damping, more durability for daily resort use.
• All new Mimic liner construction with our 3D stretch toe box, an adjustable/removeable tongue and a much improved Achilles Flex Zone to match the cuff movement.
• New ski/walk mechanism allows for 3 forward lean settings (no flip chips) 13°-15°-17°
• New glued-on Skywalk GripWalk rubber sole ISO 23223 (lower standheight & less weight allow us to go full PU but still keep a respectable weight).
• Available with an all new, ski boot specific BOA system or traditional buckles (assuming this will be a bigger discussion to follow)
• Unisex flexes: 130, 120, 110
• Women’s flexes: 115, 95
• 1830g / 26.5

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Huh. I've always felt the XTD 130 has a clear niche being lighter and narrower than most 50/50 boots. Maybe it was too much of an in-betweener/easy to overpower at the current ~1500g weight?

Personally, as someone who's happily used the XTD 130 for a few years and is due for a replacement, I'd now have a hard time not going for the XTD LV 130/140 in this higher-weight class. But maybe the XTD 130 still goes uphill better than those?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kathleenturneroverdrive

Huh. I've always felt the XTD 130 has a clear niche being lighter and narrower than most 50/50 boots. Maybe it was too much of an in-betweener/easy to overpower at the current ~1500g weight?

Personally, as someone who's happily used the XTD 130 for a few years and is due for a replacement, I'd now have a hard time not going for the XTD LV 130/140 in this higher-weight class. But maybe the XTD 130 still goes uphill better than those?

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We were finding that most people were using the first gen Ultra XTD as their daily driver in the resort. Given that, it made a lot of sense to up its beefy-ness. But, I would say that with the new liner, it goes uphill more efficiently in comparison to a stock first gen boot. And I would also say the same in comparison to the usual suspects in this category.

I support the new changes. GW has no place on 1500g boots, and 1500g boots have no place in the resort. Putting GW on a boot implies that it will be good inbounds and you need more mass for that. On the flip side, touring on GW soles sucks and I appreciate the full rubber soles on the new Backland XTD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

But, I would say that with the new liner, it goes uphill more efficiently in comparison to a stock first gen boot. And I would also say the same in comparison to the usual suspects in this category.

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Interesting. That def makes it intriguing. Of course, buying the Boa version just to annoy Boa-haters puts you over Lange.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Benneke10

I support the new changes. GW has no place on 1500g boots, and 1500g boots have no place in the resort. Putting GW on a boot implies that it will be good inbounds and you need more mass for that. On the flip side, touring on GW soles sucks and I appreciate the full rubber soles on the new Backland XTD.

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I don't disagree - XTD only works for me inbounds because my hill requires significant time spent walking uphill to access good terrain. And I still added a beefier liner and powerstrap. But I don't think the changes are "bad" at all - more that the new weight class puts the XTD into a pretty crowded field of boots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by onenerdykid

Yes and if there is play, you should do it sooner than later
Frictionless Pivot Set - AZE001164
(full hardware set for a pair of boots, including screws)

It's kind of like a head tube on a mountain bike in this regard. If you ride a loose headset for too long, you run the risk of ovalizing the head tube and nothing will ever fit properly again. Always best to get new parts in as soon as you notice the slop developing. Definitely try to get a thin-wall socket for the internal nut.

---

Yeah I had tried to get the new pivots in early, the process was so difficult I rounded one of the internal nuts and had to give up. Will it ever be possible to have a boot where this part doesn't wear out? All of my boots have it to some degree.

Edit: does the mirror pivot help with that?

Excited for the beefy backland XTD; this is definitely the category of boot I am looking for.

What’s happening with the Ultra 130 boots? Is the Mimic Platinum going in there? Does the Mimic liner add stiffness? Is Mimic Platinum something I can do from home?

I had a pair of Ultra 130 S from a couple years ago, before the lower was beefed up, and couldn’t get past the bellowing but really liked the fit. At the time I was really struggling with my Salomon S/Max 130 carbon - skied great but occasionally killed a ski day over foot pain. After the Atomic experiment failed due to bellowing and vagueness under flex I baked my Salomons a little more aggressively and got them to work without pain. I think the Atomics are probably next depending on how they stack up, stiffness/control wise, against the Salomons. Care to weigh in there? I prefer non-touring boots inbounds because I like simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mustonen

What’s happening with the Ultra 130 boots? Is the Mimic Platinum going in there? Does the Mimic liner add stiffness? Is Mimic Platinum something I can do from home?

I had a pair of Ultra 130 S from a couple years ago, before the lower was beefed up, and couldn’t get past the bellowing but really liked the fit. At the time I was really struggling with my Salomon S/Max 130 carbon - skied great but occasionally killed a ski day over foot pain. After the Atomic experiment failed due to bellowing and vagueness under flex I baked my Salomons a little more aggressively and got them to work without pain. I think the Atomics are probably next depending on how they stack up, stiffness/control wise, against the Salomons. Care to weigh in there? I prefer non-touring boots inbounds because I like simple.

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With the new beefier construction, regular Hawx Ultra definitely gets around the bellowing issues of the first generation. And what is happening to the Hawx Ultra XTD Mimic Platinum liner is also happening to the Hawx Ultra Mimic Platinum liner (aside from the Achilles' Flex Zone). Plus there is also a Mimic Professional liner (foam injected + Mimic) for Hawx Ultra that adds way more precision and power. It doesn't add "stiffness" per se, but it makes the boot more responsive, stable, and powerful.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kamtron

Yeah I had tried to get the new pivots in early, the process was so difficult I rounded one of the internal nuts and had to give up. Will it ever be possible to have a boot where this part doesn't wear out? All of my boots have it to some degree.

Edit: does the mirror pivot help with that?

Excited for the beefy backland XTD; this is definitely the category of boot I am looking for.

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The Mirror Pivot is the same hardware and same way it mounts to the shell, it's more of a geometry & positioning tweak that allows the cuff to glide more smoothly.

Do you k ow what the BSL of the XTD in a 25 or 26 will be?

Is the lower buckle on the XTD in the same position as in the current Backlands or is it a a bit higher to pull the foot back into the heel pocket more? Hard to tell from the pic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilcox510

Do you k ow what the BSL of the XTD in a 25 or 26 will be?

Is the lower buckle on the XTD in the same position as in the current Backlands or is it a a bit higher to pull the foot back into the heel pocket more? Hard to tell from the pic.

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Backland XTD 26.5 = 297mm
Hawx Ultra XTD 26.5 = 302mm

The instep strap on the Backland XTD is roughly in the same place as the current Backland. If we go any higher it will start to interfere with the cuff ROM and that's no bueno. I think you'll find it to be in a good spot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gregL

You can buy one now: https://www.levelninesports.com/atom...ki-boots-2021/

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Holee shit, even have my size in stock. Wtf is CTD? Would need a bootfitter,though. Or a clear go-ahead from ONK that hot air ovenwork is fine.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

Quote:

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Originally Posted by arild

Holee shit, even have my size in stock. Wtf is CTD? Would need a bootfitter,though. Or a clear go-ahead from ONK that hot air ovenwork is fine.

support the raddest project going: http://heritagelabskis.com

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This boot never really officially made it to market, but apparently Level 9 got their hands on some. "CTD" is our digitally connected power strap that is a Carv on steroids. Unfortunately, there are issues on the app end and it doesn't work, but the boot is a legit CS 130 in a unique color way. I would get it just for that and put on a Professional Dual Strap.

Will the Hawx Prime XTD also get the full PU treatment?

Any news of a Hawx Magna XTD in the future?