Help me pick a firm snow ski

Trying to find the right ski for firmer days in the Sierra + reasonable to travel with to the east coast. I'm 5'11, 175-180lbs. I do not have any sort of race background.

Main skis are a Moment WC and WC108 both in 184 - I like the WC a bit more due to it being a bit stiffer and having a larger radius. Both of these skis work well for me - I like that it's easy to slide the tails into shorter turn shapes. Both feel pretty good at speed and are easy enough to be fun in bumps and trees. Obviously neither is great when it hasn't snowed in two weeks and the softest terrain is groomers.

So I have a pair of 176 Moment Commander 98s - I bought them with the intention of them being good for east coast skiing (they have been) but they're too short for me anywhere wide open. I think I'm learning that I prefer a slightly longer radius than these skis have, and maybe a hair looser tail (which could probably be solved with a very light detune). I'd also prefer more weight / damper ride for this sort of ski - again, this is probably a function of the short length more than the design of this ski. It's pretty fun until things get cut up.

Should I just go for a C98 in a 182cm length? Or should I consider something else? I'd like to improve my technique, but I think right now something like a Dyanstar LPR would probably punish my lack of skills. Curious about skis like a Stockli Stormrider or the various Kastle skis, but not sure if they're more traditional than I'd like.

Appreciate the guidance from the collective.

So you’re looking for an all mountain ski? A hard snow ski would be something like a Head Super Shape or Dynastar Speed 4x4 xxx.

Really if you want a hard snow ski to make those conditions enjoyable the ski needs to be heavy, damp and less than 85 underfoot


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Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn

So you’re looking for an all mountain ski? A hard snow ski would be something like a Head Super Shape or Dynastar Speed 4x4 xxx.

Really if you want a hard snow ski to make those conditions enjoyable the ski needs to be heavy, damp and less than 85 underfoot


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Not a ski for true ice conditions, because I don't ski that super often, but for firm conditions here (Sierras) that'll work on occasional trips to the east coast. I thought 90-100mm made sense for this application. Maybe I am describing an all mountain ski... no bias against something narrower than 90mm, but it seemed the 90-100 range would give me a bit of flexibility.

I’ve been looking at the Speed 4x4 963 for what you’re talking about.


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Dynastar MPro 90 or MPro 99 might be what you're looking for. I have both and, for me, I like the 90 a bit better for groomers while it still skis well in shallowish powder. The 99 is also a good choice but for what you're describing, the 90 is likely a better call. YMMV,

What terrain do you ski when it’s firm?

Checking out the Dynastars being recommended - both the Speed 4x4 and the MPro 90 seem to have a pretty tight radius. Excuse any ignorance on this, but isn't that going to make them a bit happier making tighter turns rather than larger ones?

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Originally Posted by XavierD

What terrain do you ski when it’s firm?

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Generally the softest snow at Mammoth seems to be wind buff off the top once everything else is getting icy - so steep open bowls. Once those are too firm it's really just groomers left.

I've been enjoying the Fisher Curv GT this season at 76 underfoot. 125-76-110, 17m @182.

It's a pretty fun ski described as an "accessible race ski" meaning you can take a few brain dead laps and not get totally punished.

https://www.fischersports.com/us_en/...2723889&c=5330

I have a 180 brahma with STH16s if ya want...

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Originally Posted by Pinned

Generally the softest snow at Mammoth seems to be wind buff off the top once everything else is getting icy - so steep open bowls. Once those are too firm it's really just groomers left.

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For me a good groomer ski is different than a good firm off piste ski. That said I really like my Bonifide 97 for open groomers and some steep stuff but will tend to take my Woodsman 96 up if I’m planning on mostly skiing off piste

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Originally Posted by XavierD

For me a good groomer ski is different than a good firm off piste ski. That said I really like my Bonifide 97 for open groomers and some steep stuff but will tend to take my Woodsman 96 up if I’m planning on mostly skiing off piste

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Woodsman 96 is a great ski along with Wren 96 (98 too). My ec typical go to even when trending firm - anything softer to edge into and they shine only that much more.

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Originally Posted by Pinned

Checking out the Dynastars being recommended - both the Speed 4x4 and the MPro 90 seem to have a pretty tight radius. Excuse any ignorance on this, but isn't that going to make them a bit happier making tighter turns rather than larger ones?


Generally the softest snow at Mammoth seems to be wind buff off the top once everything else is getting icy - so steep open bowls. Once those are too firm it's really just groomers left.

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RE: MPro 90. It's pretty damp and happy at speed. You can always make larger radius turns on just about any ski. I've not had any issues with longer turns with speed on them. See what's available for demo and try some different skis.

My current firm day, mostly groomer, in the Sierra, ski is still a 2nd gen. Mantra, and they’re past due for replacement.

I’ve skied new Mantras, Bonafide’s, etc. and they’re very good, certainly more versatile/easier to maneuver with the additional rocker, but I can’t get along 100% with the shorter radius on them. If really leaned over to get good edge hold they just want to turn too tight. Reducing the angle and letting them drift a bit more in longer turns is possible, but not what I’m looking to do on firm groomer days.

That doesn’t really help, other than to confirm that a long radius does ski differently, and that it’s possible to not get along with a tighter radius. I personally have no interest in a 17m side cut on my groomer ski (current old Mantras are around 22-23m I believe)

I’ve been contemplating splitting the bottom end of the quiver in two and getting a masters gs ski with a mid 20’s radius for firm days when I’m willing to stick to groomers and an M6 Mantra for when I want the versatility.

(I do have a bit of a racing background, but nothing too serious)

Thanks everyone for the thoughts and suggestions. If I can find a demo day I'll absolutely try a few skis, they've been few and far between the last couple seasons so I've been gambling a little with blind purchases. I'm curious to try the MPro 90 and maybe those Speed 4x4 and Fischer's too. I've never skied anything like the latter two but it would be good to know what they're like.

I'm with J. Barron DeJong - longer radius skis feel better to me and the way I ski. The Wrenegade 96 looks like a good option, ON3P's version of the Commander seemingly. Hadn't considered Volkl, but the M6 Mantra looks like another good one - mount is further back than I'm used to but curious to try it.

Just out of curiosity - is anyone skiing a Stockli Stormrider as their groomer / firm ski and liking it? Everyone I've casually asked in the lift line seems to really love theirs, but I don't see / hear much about them otherwise.

Over the years I have skied a bunch of great skis at Mammoth on those firm days. For me, I agree with MU comment, "Really if you want a hard snow ski to make those conditions enjoyable the ski needs to be heavy, damp and less than 85 underfoot". I use MX 84's but I think the MX 88 would work too or any ski with similar properties. On my recent visit, one of the guys in the club demoed some Stolkis and loved them. Like the Kastles they are expensive unless you can find a discounted pair in April.

And Kaestle under 100mm wide


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Try the Fischer RS One 86GTs. They have a little bit of tip and tail rocker to add some versatility that the Fischer Curve lacks. The 86GTs just rip. They are constructed with a top and bottom layer of .8mm titanal (most non race skis use .5mm) and bunch of other really interesting build materials. They carve beautifully any size turn you want, are incredibly stable and an amazing amount of fun. I have even skied them off the T-Bar at Breck. They wouldn't be my first choice for that application but weren't bad. I am 6' 170 and ski the 175 (all my other skis are 185ish) and have found they don't lack stability at speed. That said the 182 would also be fun but given how stiff and heavy they are I could see the 182s being a bit of a handful off piste.

Head Monster 82 or 88. They are very versatile. Lots of metal and rubber so heavy and damp. My M82’s are very versatile. Ski off piste firm and super firm like a dream. They can even get loose when it snows a couple inches over the firm. Bite down hard on ice and allow a guy to drag a hip on firm groomers. No top end either, well that I have found, pretty sure it doesn’t exist. If it does not sure I care for that speed or have the course for it.
Personally I’m not a fan of Indy companies firm snow offerings. They’re not heavy/damp enough nor offer the same edge hold as Head, Dynastar, Blizzard, ya know, companies that make race skis.

I’m still rocking a Fischer Motive 86ti, any mags with tuning knowledge have advice on a edge bevel setup to really maximize this ski on hard snow? Talking EC man made firm


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Thanks all - definitely seems like the recommendations sway heavily towards bigger brands with that make race skis like 2FUNKY said. I'll have to see if I can demo a few of these recs at some point this winter.

Also interested in the tuning aspect that ticketchecker asked about, but kind of the opposite - I like tails that are a little looser than the traditional super locked in flat tail skis. Is it possible to get that without ruining the edge hold of the skis we're talking about?

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Originally Posted by ticketchecker

I’m still rocking a Fischer Motive 86ti, any mags with tuning knowledge have advice on a edge bevel setup to really maximize this ski on hard snow? Talking EC man made firm


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.5 and 3. Sharp tip to tail. Detune to your liking, or don’t…. To keep that grip, touch up those edges after 5-6 days of skiing. Hard snow like you describe will dull them quicker than one thinks.

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Originally Posted by Pinned

Trying to find the right ski for firmer days in the Sierra + reasonable to travel with to the east coast. I'm 5'11, 175-180lbs. I do not have any sort of race background.

Main skis are a Moment WC and WC108 both in 184 - I like the WC a bit more due to it being a bit stiffer and having a larger radius. Both of these skis work well for me - I like that it's easy to slide the tails into shorter turn shapes. Both feel pretty good at speed and are easy enough to be fun in bumps and trees. Obviously neither is great when it hasn't snowed in two weeks and the softest terrain is groomers.

So I have a pair of 176 Moment Commander 98s - I bought them with the intention of them being good for east coast skiing (they have been) but they're too short for me anywhere wide open. I think I'm learning that I prefer a slightly longer radius than these skis have, and maybe a hair looser tail (which could probably be solved with a very light detune). I'd also prefer more weight / damper ride for this sort of ski - again, this is probably a function of the short length more than the design of this ski. It's pretty fun until things get cut up.

Should I just go for a C98 in a 182cm length? Or should I consider something else? I'd like to improve my technique, but I think right now something like a Dyanstar LPR would probably punish my lack of skills. Curious about skis like a Stockli Stormrider or the various Kastle skis, but not sure if they're more traditional than I'd like.

Appreciate the guidance from the collective.

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I skied the WC 101 / 184 yesterday in firm conditions, can't imagine a ski doing it any better than they did. Not East coast ice but definitely firm with scattered chalk.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Head Monster 82 or 88. They are very versatile. Lots of metal and rubber so heavy and damp. My M82’s are very versatile. Ski off piste firm and super firm like a dream. They can even get loose when it snows a couple inches over the firm. Bite down hard on ice and allow a guy to drag a hip on firm groomers. No top end either, well that I have found, pretty sure it doesn’t exist. If it does not sure I care for that speed or have the course for it.
Personally I’m not a fan of Indy companies firm snow offerings. They’re not heavy/damp enough nor offer the same edge hold as Head, Dynastar, Blizzard, ya know, companies that make race skis.

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This would be my vote. Same reasons. You can loosen most skis via tune. Can't magically create that smooth silky damp feel though.

Yes, my Monster 88’s are cold, dead hands skis for me. I also found that I can ski them a size shorter (177 vs 184) due to their stability.

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Originally Posted by bigdude2468

I skied the WC 101 / 184 yesterday in firm conditions, can't imagine a ski doing it any better than they did. Not East coast ice but definitely firm with scattered chalk.

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Do yourself a favor and try a mid 80s ski like some of the ones talked about in this thread. Nothing like a metal laminate ski from one of the big ski manufacturers.


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Where are you located? I've got some Salomon GS skis I'm going to sell shortly. Old, easy to ski, not as stiff as the other GS skis I have (so that's why I'm getting rid of them), cheap ($40). 186cm IIRC - Will have to doublecheck. I'm in Reno.

stance 90 is my go-to up in tahoe. it's fun during ice ages and soft spring snow.
I almost got some declivity 92 Ti's, but they were all sold out.
people seem to like the brahmas and mantras.

i've demo'd the stockli 95s and they were fucking awesome. might be able to find a pair on cheap at a demo sale somewhere. I know the demo center at palisades tahoe has a couple for like $799 with binders.
can't go wrong with the kastle under 100mm either, but again pricey.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Where are you located? I've got some Salomon GS skis I'm going to sell shortly. Old, easy to ski, not as stiff as the other GS skis I have (so that's why I'm getting rid of them), cheap ($40). 186cm IIRC - Will have to doublecheck. I'm in Reno.

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Deets on the Salomon GS’s?

If I was still skiing Mammoth regularly, I’d want my “firm snow ski” to have metal. Don’t get a race ski if you are concerned about a “lack of skills” since those won’t help. Grab a Head Monster, Stockli, Volkl Mantra variant, or Kastle. Something right around a 20-m radius might really surprise you.

Or go get a cheap pair of Blizzard Cochise with the blue topsheets with carbon tips and tails. They have like. 27-ish turn radius in the 185 and will kick your ass if you get lazy. They’ll haul ass, too.

Marshal Olsen’s new 87 sounds like a winner to me.

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

.5 and 3. Sharp tip to tail. Detune to your liking, or don’t…. To keep that grip, touch up those edges after 5-6 days of skiing. Hard snow like you describe will dull them quicker than one thinks.

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Thanks mang


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Originally Posted by turnfarmer

Marshal Olsen’s new 87 sounds like a winner to me.

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I was thinking the same thing.

Comes in 182 length and low-mid 20m sidecut


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Originally Posted by J. Barron DeJong

Deets on the Salomon GS’s?

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185cm. Skinny waist - dimensions not printed on the skis, but says radius of 21m or greater. These came with metal riser plates that I removed because they rattled and had a lot of slop - the rubber pads between the plates and skis had shrunk over time. I still have the plates and mounting hardware if you want to try using them. Remounted with Axe risers and stuck on some 12-DIN Salomon bindings I had.

Edges are good. Bases have been well used, several repairs - took a pic of the worst ones. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b84be2b00c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b835f9982.jpg

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Originally Posted by Bandit Man

If I was still skiing Mammoth regularly, I’d want my “firm snow ski” to have metal. Don’t get a race ski if you are concerned about a “lack of skills” since those won’t help. Grab a Head Monster, Stockli, Volkl Mantra variant, or Kastle. Something right around a 20-m radius might really surprise you.

Or go get a cheap pair of Blizzard Cochise with the blue topsheets with carbon tips and tails. They have like. 27-ish turn radius in the 185 and will kick your ass if you get lazy. They’ll haul ass, too.

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Definitely want metal, damp - those recs are all kind of where I'm heading right now. But I am definitely missing something about the ~20m radius skis and may need to just try a few more. All the models I'm looking at seem to be mid-20m+ radius.

I've preferred longer radius skis as smaller radius skis tend to feel a little more locked in than I like. Is it likely just a tune preference thing?

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

185cm. Skinny waist - dimensions not printed on the skis, but says radius of 21m or greater. These came with metal riser plates that I removed because they rattled and had a lot of slop - the rubber pads between the plates and skis had shrunk over time. I still have the plates and mounting hardware if you want to try using them. Remounted with Axe risers and stuck on some 12-DIN Salomon bindings I had.

Edges are good. Bases have been well used, several repairs - took a pic of the worst ones.

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Thanks. Little older than I’m willing to consider, but not surprised given the offer price of $40 :biggrin:

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Originally Posted by hoarhey

I was thinking the same thing.

Comes in 182 length and low-mid 20m sidecut

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Thirded. Based entirely on expectations, not experience, however.

Plus the price point is legit.

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Originally Posted by gaijin

Thirded. Based entirely on expectations, not experience, however.

Plus the price point is legit.

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Yeah, forgot about that project. Support Marsh and hop on that dealio. The race series sounds legit!

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Originally Posted by 2FUNKY

Yeah, forgot about that project. Support Marsh and hop on that dealio. The race series sounds legit!

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That does seem like it could be a good fit for OP (or even for me). Was thinking earlier why couldn’t a Kendo or Brahma just have bigger radius. That may be it.

Have read good things about Blossom race skis, but haven’t personally skied them (or any recent race ski)

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

185cm. Skinny waist - dimensions not printed on the skis, but says radius of 21m or greater. These came with metal riser plates that I removed because they rattled and had a lot of slop - the rubber pads between the plates and skis had shrunk over time. I still have the plates and mounting hardware if you want to try using them. Remounted with Axe risers and stuck on some 12-DIN Salomon bindings I had.

Edges are good. Bases have been well used, several repairs - took a pic of the worst ones. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b84be2b00c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b835f9982.jpg

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Chup, I'm interested if you - or any other mags - are traveling from Reno to Whistler. Seems doubtful but wanted to put it out there.

Separately, does anyone have any thoughts on the Rossi Experience 88 Basalt? Found a used pair on sale in Whistler. Not too picky, just looking for something that carves well, given the lack of snow and the fact that I'm skiing basically every day. Might as well have something to carve up the groomed when there's no pow. They're from 2016 but have only been used a few times. Here's a generic page about them: https://www.freeride.com/gear/skis/r...e-88-bslt.html

Generic thought, without getting into what an E88 does and does not do well, because I'm not good enough to really know, its a competent ski that if I could get a deal on, I would want to have. Without a deal, (well, personally I couldn't afford it anyway but if I could) I think there are some "spicier" or more specialized options. But I had the OG E88s and they were totally nice, competent, well built skis. Mine were just too short in the end or I'd prolly still have them. Shoulda kept them anyway. Some Japanese guy bought them from me. Like an actual Japanese guy, who was in from Japan to ski for a month and buying his kit on CL. Anyway, I digress... IIRC they did like to carve and didn't need loads of input to do so.