All day inbounds pow ski - Alta /JH

I have a pair of Automatic 117s 186s that I've been pretty happy with. Delaminating now though.

They are also a little heavy versus the latest crop. I like the shape a lot. I'm 5'10' 175lb. I think they feel a little stiff in deep pow, and about right in chop.

Considering a new inbound pow ski for the entire day. Start with pow, move to trees (maneuverable, wouldn't mind more of this) and ski bumps end of day.
These would go out in fresh snow and half day old snow.

I would love to pick up a little extra endurance by cutting some weight if possible. The Automatics weigh 2200g.

Almost pulled the trigger on the Bent Chetlers because of their light weight, but got a little nervous about the flex, after I messed my head up reading too much Blister.

So... All day pow ski to last all day. Not raging, but skiing hard. Staying out all day.

-BCs
-Rustler 11s
-JJs
-White Walkers

Anyone in this category with some ideas?

Elan Ripstick 106 Black Editions would be my choice - all day, every day.

Moment Deathwish 190.

IMO light skis suck once you're riding chop. I like heavier skis like the ON3P Billy Goat for my inbounds pow skis. They are fun in fresh and they mob through chop. The older 186 Billy Goat is what I'd suggest. The newest version has lower splay and a stiffer tail so it won't be as easy to ski as your Automatics.

Or you can go big and pick up the flex 4 187 Praxis ProTests in gear swap. Those skis are awesome.

I'm on the new 187cm BG 118 this year. Alpental skier primarily. I used to ride the 186cm Automatic and although that ski was more fun and playful in soft pow, the BG kills it in chop.

They rage. Are they heavy? Yeah. But you get used to it, and there's something to be said for having a ski that crushes everything you point it at. Also, that added stability from the weight/damping properties gives you more stamina as a direct result of having to input less into the ski to maintain your line choice.

They are also fun on groomers. Just stand on them and roll your ankles over. Big GS arcs all the way back to the lift corral. Watch out for small children, deer, jerrys, ect....you won't feel them.

Some here have commented the new BG isn't as good as the older 2014ish BG. As I have both, I'm calling shenanigans. If you ski the front of your boot and get the fuck off your tails, the new tail design and improved shovel flex pattern kill it. Scott and the boys at ON3P nailed this ski. No question.

For reference I am 5'10 160 pounds.
Maybe closer to 170 with my gear and beer.

Mordecais

I am your height 10lbs lighter and my all day inbounds Alta ski is a 185 Bodacious

Woodsman 108 (now 110) is the only ski you’ll ever need


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Yeah, I agree with the others that a heavy ski is much less work than a light ski in anything but absolute untouched pow.

So I would say ON3P 186 Jeffrey 110. I'm about your size, and that's what I ski inbounds. 110 is a nice width.

If you want lighter, I'd second 190 Moment Deathwish.

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Originally Posted by Kopi_Red

IMO light skis suck once you're riding chop. I like heavier skis like the ON3P Billy Goat for my inbounds pow skis. They are fun in fresh and they mob through chop. The older 186 Billy Goat is what I'd suggest. The newest version has lower splay and a stiffer tail so it won't be as easy to ski as your Automatics.

Or you can go big and pick up the flex 4 187 Praxis ProTests in gear swap. Those skis are awesome.

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So just because 2 people who have never actually been on a ski came to this conclusion so now it's the truth?

Katanas!

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Yeah, I agree with the others that a heavy ski is much less work than a light ski in anything but absolute untouched pow.

So I would say ON3P 186 Jeffrey 110. I'm about your size, and that's what I ski inbounds. 110 is a nice width.

If you want lighter, I'd second 190 Moment Deathwish.

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I’m more like 6’-0” 195 and there is a huge difference in powder and chopped powder between my ON3P Jeff 108s and my Line Mordecais (114). Mordecais float way better. It may only be the width, and Jeff 116s might be just as good, but while the Jeff 108 is my DD and fine in powder, the extra width is super noticeable when I switch to the Lines.

Reckoner 112

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Originally Posted by Sessiøn

So just because 2 people who have never actually been on a ski came to this conclusion so now it's the truth?

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Yeah, you've been around long enough to know how TGR works! haha

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Originally Posted by EWG

I’m more like 6’-0” 195 and there is a huge difference in powder and chopped powder between my ON3P Jeff 108s and my Line Mordecais (114). Mordecais float way better. It may only be the width, and Jeff 116s might be just as good, but while the Jeff 108 is my DD and fine in powder, the extra width is super noticeable when I switch to the Lines.

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Where do you ski? Also, you've got 30# on me, which is substantial for float.

AIso kind of missed the OPs original question where he loved the Automatic 117 but wanted something lighter for more endurance. He's already on a pretty light and easy-going ski ... it's possible the Jeff 110 isn't for him. I guess Bibby Pro (old one that was lighter) or Benchetler might do the trick.

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Originally Posted by auvgeek

Yeah, you've been around long enough to know how TGR works! haha

Where do you ski? Also, you've got 30# on me, which is substantial for float.

AIso kind of missed the OPs original question where he loved the Automatic 117 but wanted something lighter for more endurance. He's already on a pretty light and easy-going ski ... it's possible the Jeff 110 isn't for him. I guess Bibby Pro (old one that was lighter) or Benchetler might do the trick.

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Bent is a pretty good recommendation for him I’ll bet. But I hate they don’t have a 110. 100-120 is missing that middle ski I’d you ask me.

I’m in the Rockies: CO, UT and usually a week in WY. Mostly light snow.

I’ve never been on the wider Jefferys. Would like to try those, and I am slightly obsessed with getting on the new Woods and trying those.

This is good advice so far.
I do appreciate the reality check on going lighter, might be more work in the end.

A lotta recs coming in around 110mm too.

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Originally Posted by EWG

Bent is a pretty good recommendation for him I’ll bet. But I hate they don’t have a 110. 100-120 is missing that middle ski I’d you ask me.

I’m in the Rockies: CO, UT and usually a week in WY. Mostly light snow.

I’ve never been on the wider Jefferys. Would like to try those, and I am slightly obsessed with getting on the new Woods and trying those.

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The 110 BC was posted in gear rumors, post #43, 12/13/21

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ghlight=rumors

110 is not a pow ski. It might ski pow well, but true pow skis are over 115mm IMO. You said "pow ski" in the thread title. If you're looking for a daily driver, M-free 108 is the ski you seek.

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Originally Posted by Hopeless Sinner

The 110 BC was posted in gear rumors, post #43, 12/13/21

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ghlight=rumors

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Oooooooooo. 110 188s are interesting for in bounds.

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

I am your height 10lbs lighter and my all day inbounds Alta ski is a 185 Bodacious

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I ski some old Bonafides as a daily driver. Probably looking to move away from the minimal tail rocker in general. I think the Bodacious prob aren't what I'm after for shape.

How about the JJs versus the Bentchets?
Looks like maybe weight is the difference - is that about right? Othersize kinda similar?

FWIW my 186 Jeffrey 108 floats better than my 190 bibby pro which is 117 underfoot


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Originally Posted by Sessiøn

So just because 2 people who have never actually been on a ski came to this conclusion so now it's the truth?

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Yup. Always.

I've been skiing SuperGoats for the past 4 years. Since the new tail is modelled after the SGs I have some experience on the new BG tail design. Having also skied the old 186s with their softer, higher splay tail I'm confident in saying the older ski is the most similar version of the Billy Goat to his current Automatic 117.

I personally prefer the SGs tail design over the previous models. If my SGs ever die I'll be buying a new pair of 192 BGs.

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Originally Posted by Kopi_Red

Yup. Always.

I've been skiing SuperGoats for the past 4 years. Since the new tail is modelled after the SGs I have some experience on the new BG tail design. Having also skied the old 186s with their softer, higher splay tail I'm confident in saying the older ski is the most similar version of the Billy Goat to his current Automatic 117.

I personally prefer the SGs tail design over the previous models. If my SGs ever die I'll be buying a new pair of 192 BGs.

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ha, thanks!

I'm even wondering if I should through the candide 3.0s in the mix. give up 10% of base area.
DAMMIT!

Heavy skis rock for inbounds "pow" which is usually chop at Alta. I'm a OG bodacious guy.

If you want to go lighter the Rustler 11 is a pretty good ski too.

I'd be happy on any of these as an all-day pow-day ski at Alta:

Nordica Enforcer 115
Salomon QST Blank
Blizzard Rustler 11
Dynastar M Free 108 or 118
Moment Wildcat 118
Black Crows Anima

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Originally Posted by VON

I'd be happy on any of these as an all-day pow-day ski at Alta:

Nordica Enforcer 115
Salomon QST Blank
Blizzard Rustler 11
Dynastar M Free 108 or 118
Moment Wildcat 118
Black Crows Anima

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These are solid recommendations. I was going to mention a few of these. I hope to have more first hand info on how the Blank and M Free118 ski later in the week.

I’m gonna throw out a rec for 187 GPO’s


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Or 192 Flex 5 GPO in GS


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I have Rustler 11s, Protests and Billy Goats. The Rustlers are the best in bumps and firm snow. The Protests are the best in untracked whether it is pow or something crusty or funky. The Goats are the best in chop or dust on crust. They are also pretty terrible on groomers. They aren't scary or anything, just completely unengaging. But it's worth it at most resorts. What makes the shitty on groomers also makes them very easy to pivot despite tracking straight at high speeds. The mass helps them smooth out all sorts of tracked out snow. They are absolutely less tiring to ski all day for a typical resort pow ski than... well.... anything I've ever tried.

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I have R11, too. Last year I had R11 188 and they were fun at Alta. This year I sold the 188, decided to ski 185 Bodacious as inbounds pow ski, bought R11 180 to ski moguls and trees. Due to a surgery, I did lose 25lbs. This, more than anything prompted the down size though.

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Originally Posted by VON

I'd be happy on any of these as an all-day pow-day ski at Alta:

Nordica Enforcer 115
Salomon QST Blank
Blizzard Rustler 11
Dynastar M Free 108 or 118
Moment Wildcat 118
Black Crows Anima

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Really. Solid. Choices.

Icelantic Nomad 115 is also a really fun ski in pow. And with its wide (non-tapered) 150mm tips the Nomad rips groomers back to the lift. Only 2mm of camber underfoot means it pivots really well with a centered stance in tight spots. Sturdy underfoot but soft in tips/tails. Like a super fat E104 without metal. Or like a Rossi Sickle with a bit of camber. You gotta mount it +3cm (-6cm not -9cm rec) though.

Here is a pic of me on the 115 Nomads at Whitewater. This pic below is for banditman. It’s the worst pic of the last two weeks.

Attachment 399449

175 lbs, thinks the Automatics are stiff and wants lighter due to endurance issues and dudes are suggesting some pretty burly sticks, god I love you guys!
OP, don’t take this the wrong way mmmmkay?.. Get stronger and work on technique as heavy skis rule inbounds pow which turns to chop. Proper skeletal alignment makes a heavy ski feel amazing inbounds, you shouldn’t be horking them around.
I have no real ski recommendations for you as what I like is obviously not what you want or need. With that said it sounds like the Nordica Enforcer 115 is right up your alley. I have hand flexed them and read some reviews and they match the hand flexy fondle. They feel like a very forgiving ski in the hand, reviews confirm that. There are some other solid recco’s in here, don’t think the new BG is it as it is going to reward a strong technical skier. Maybe the older BG may be your jam as indicated earlier.

Haha, I'm ok with the guidance toward heavier. My mind might have gotten the best of me.
I'm in good shape, can ski pow, skeletal alignment (...let me see) checks out.

However, I have no ego about the name on my topsheets. I DO want to grind my buddies to a pulp around 3:45PM (not before), so they have to buy the first round. That's the endurance issue I'm talking about.

Attachment 399549

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Originally Posted by EWG

Oooooooooo. 110 188s are interesting for in bounds.

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I saw an Amer employee skiing these a few weeks ago at snowbasin. Looked like the picture lol. He didn't say much when rode the chair together but he was curious where I saw it.

Seconding the 190 Wildcats. They're currently my Alta pow ski, and I couldn't be happier. They ski shockingly well on groomers and in moguls for a 118.

I do wish the Blackops Gamer came in a longer length. That'd be another great choice if you're OK with a 186.

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Originally Posted by gman321

Seconding the 190 Wildcats. They're currently my Alta pow ski, and I couldn't be happier. They ski shockingly well on groomers and in moguls for a 118.

I do wish the Blackops Gamer came in a longer length. That'd be another great choice if you're OK with a 186.

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Nice, having a look!

Yeah, I posted recently in the Black Ops 118 thread (ski now called the Blackops Gamer). I used to ski Alta on metal Katanas (184cm) and Rossi Sickles (186cm). I think the Black Ops 118 is probably a better deep snow ski than either of those for LCC.

Floats pretty well but more importantly crushes deep chop and is still is surprisingly dynamic when carving 2D snow if you encounter it. It mutes out the Alta High T chatter as well as anything I’ve skied too.

But: it’s got a very progressive mount point and only comes in 186 cm max length. Large humans and/or those that prefer a more traditional mount point might want to look elsewhere.

And I agree with those posts above: ski weight is probably your friend if your goal is to ski Alta at high speeds bell to bell on those deep LCC days. I have to work a lot harder to keep my Bentchetler 120s tracking straight through resort chop in the second half of a Wasatch resort pow day than my Black Ops 118.

If you are willing to switch out skis midday at the Collins base on the really deep days, then you might choose differently…

I'll vouch for a lighter ski at Alta on deep days. I am always sidestepping and hiking all over the place and lighter gear makes it easier to hike up for another run off High Greeley or the backside. Having a ski that is not extremely wide makes the sidesteps more pleasant, and it makes the afternoon scraped off chokes in Eagles Nest more manageable.