Lange XT3 Tour Pro - praise, gripes, hacks, and mods

So I threatened to, and decided to just do it. Since there seemed to be enough chatter in a couple of other threads about it, I just went ahead and started a dedicated thread for the Lange XT3 Tour Pro boots... I've got 6 days in them (4 inbounds and 2 touring) and while they fit my foot freaking awesome I just don't love the way they ski. But I'm not convinced they can't be "fixed" so here's goddamned thread about the boot, how I feel about the boot (let's not call it a review per se), and a place to collect what maggots like, hate, and end up changing about it. So first, a couple of general info things that we know and have been confirmed here in other threads:

Stated Flex: 130
Stated Last: 99mm
Stated Range of Motion: 53°
Stated BLS: 303mm @ 26.5 / 313mm @ 27.5

I'm gonna assume forward lean and ramp angle of 12° and 4° based on the other XT3 boots, though I haven't been able to confirm that anywhere.

Alright, here's my thoughts on the boot, as well as some experiments I'm going to try out. This will be long, apologies in advance. Hoping other people will also post thoughts and ideas in here as well. To that end, I have actually read what I could about this boot on this forum, and thrown some quotes from others in for perspective. Here we go.

I've worn very few boots in my short time as a skier, this is my third pair in 12 years. Black Diamond Factor 130 for the first 4-5 seasons, and I've been skiing in Scarpa Freedom SLs for the last 7-8 seasons. The BDs were awful in every way, but I didn't know it until they were stolen and I got the Scarpas. MUCH better fitting, flex, skiability, etc. I actually really like/love the Scarpas for not knowing any better, but my one gripe was that I could pretty easily get my heel to move. When I shoved my hoof in this Lange it felt way much more better in the heel, and more snug but not too tight in the forefoot despite being a couple mm narrower last. My feet: very flat but long arch, pronates like a MFer, ankles roll inward, low instep, fairly low volume, average width that kinda "walks wide" because of how much I pronate. Also I broke my right ankle pretty badly (fucking motocross) and had a couple surgeries which has left my right navicular poking pretty far inward, always a major hotspot. Maybe that info is helpful to this guy:

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Originally Posted by altacoup

Also have scarpa rs130. That fucker is narrower than a Doberman plug in the toe and bigger than a five gallon bucket in the heel ankle.

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I like the fit of the XT3 Tour better than my Scarpas out of the box even without baking the liner yet. Way better heel hold, slightly snugger forefoot. Also, the Scarpas finally packed out too far for my liking (i.e. got real fucking sloppy) about a month ago, so I went looking for new boots. I tried on several boots including a K2 Mindbender, Hoji Free, Dynafit Radical pro (2022), Scarpa Maestrale, and maybe a couple of others I'm forgetting. The Lange fit the best out of the box, and the bootfitter I worked with at Bent Gate in Golden, CO felt it was appropriate for what, how, and how well I ski (more on that in a bit).

My specific size 27.5 boots weighed in at 1595g and 1605g with the stock liners and footbeds. I did not weigh each component separately. There are others who have weighed their boots on this forum, and posted pictures that are in line with what I found. i.e. a couple people have this boot in a 27.5 and got within 5-10g of the weight I got. Even though I generally agree with this:

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Originally Posted by GoldenBC

Boot companies need to make real boots with walk modes. Don’t make any sacrifices. I have not had a single customer ask how much a boot weighs in two years.

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I was pretty excited at the possibility of losing nearly a full pound (400g to be specific) off my feet compared to the Scarpas and still having something I could ski as a daily driver. Afterall, ski boot tech has come a LONG way since I got those Freedoms, and on paper this boot looked like a good match for what I was looking for. I guess that brings us to the "how do I feel about this boot" part of the post. Like I said, I love the fit but I don't love the way it skis. I'm not a great skier, but I try and ski challenging terrain and get better as often as possible. I don't consider myself a charger, more of a medium speed skier. I don't huck cliffs. I do like skiing steeper lines, and will hike/walk/shuffle/sidestep for a powder shot any fucking day of the week. I currently ski backcountry to inbounds at a 1:3 ratio favoring inbounds. Backcountry missions include everything from day touring in Colorado, skiing a larger single-hit line or 14er, hut trips, sidecountry adventures in Jackson or Snowbird, or whatever. I've always skied an AT boot, I've never skied a true alpine boot even as a kid as I didn't start skiing until my late 30s. So I'm not expecting these to ski like plug boots or whatever. Oh... and I'm a Large Human (as Marshal Olson has informed me guys like he and I are) at 6'2" and ~200 lbs.

So apart from fitting me really well, this boot tours fucking great. Like, really well. I haven't baked the liners, so I still have a pesky hot spot on my right inner ankle (navicular) but even that is getting better as I wear the boot. Skiing is... a different story. As I said I'm not a great skier, and as I like to ski steeper more demanding terrain I think I ask a lot of my boots to bail my ass out when my technique sucks. Here's what I feel, three things I'd like to try and make better:

• At speed on harder packed snow, particularly snow that's been skied up and is kinda rutted and such, the boot feels nervous. Like not confidence inspiring that it'll keep that ski edge planted while going fast. This is better if I get more on the front of the boot, but it's just not as composed feeling as I'd like. Could this be qualities of the Grilamid vs. a Pebex or PU boot? Like, it's not as damp? I'm just not sure exactly what I'm feeling here, or how to describe it. It's not quite chattery, just doesn't feel as connected to keep the ski planted on the snow. Not as composed.
• I've found that if I have the skis at an angle to the fall line and I'm scrubbing or controlling speed, that if the front half of the ski hits some chop or a pile of snow or something, occasionally the boot feels like it folds at the ankle. Like, the toe dorsiflexes towards my shin real hard and quick. It's never caused a catastrophe, but it's disconcerting. As above, this seems better if I really concentrate on driving the boot through the tongue... which isn't necessarily easy or a strong suit for me given my non-race low-technique background and limited ankle strength and mobility from injuries. Could this be that the Lange has a really progressive flex, so where I'm skiing it is a bit softer than I'm used to but it ramps up to that 130 as it gets deeper in it's flex?
• I don't think these have the rearward support that I would like or need. Especially compared to the Scarpas, if I get back-seated I feel like I'm in an office chair about to tip over backwards... except that occasionally I do tip over backwards. I know, I know... don't do that. Have I mentioned I'm not the best skier? Anyways... could this be a lean angle difference? Cuff height difference? Could shoving a shim or spoiler behind my liner help in this regard? I think the Scarpa has more of a forward lean than the Lange, as well as a rear spoiler doo-dad and taller cuff.

So, I do like fiddling with shit. And there's enough people here that are making changes to this boot and given me some ideas that I'm gonna try some shit out. I've also talked to a couple bootfitters to get some recommendations, here's my list of things I'm gonna try to make this boot work:

1. Rear cuff/shim/spoiler, for a couple of reasons. I think this will help me get in a more aggressive stance (the Lange seems pretty upright) and it'll help with more rearward support.
2. Booster strap, or a Lange XT3 140 strap if I can source it. I wouldn't have thought of this, but the two bootfitters I spoke with said this could help me feel the full 130 flex of the boot earlier in the range of motion of the flex. Makes sense, not expensive, worth trying out.
3. New liners, either a more robust Lange liner or just get an Intuition or Zipfit.

The first thing I'm gonna try is just skiing the boot with the Intuition from the Scarpa, to see if that makes any sort of difference. At the same time, I'll also experiment with a rear spoiler by just adding the one from the Scarpa. It bolted in there fairly easily, and though it would really need to be grinded on a bit to be nice-nice it'll work as proof of concept.

https://www.evanchute.design/images/...ro-mods_02.jpg

https://www.evanchute.design/images/...ro-mods_03.jpg

Gained under 100g adding the spoiler, liner, and heavier footbed from my Scarpa:
https://www.evanchute.design/images/...ro-mods_01.jpg

I'm open to any commentary, advice, hazing, or whatever y'all got.

Here's the part where I quote other folks and ask more specific questions. Some of this might be repeated from above, I wrote them at different times. Sorry, not sorry.

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Originally Posted by DarthMarkus

Tried it with the shim completely removed, as well as lowered. Definitely better in both regards.

With the shim completely out, I think I'll need to shorten the top buckle ladder. Possibly even drill a new hole. Makes me a little hesitant that it'll distort the upper cuff to get it tight enough.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by YoEddy

It appears to be the same 'ol Lange cuff shim except bolted through the same hole as the power strap. I'll likely remove it but looks like it will need a shorter bolt No big deal.

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If either of you gents have taken out that rear spoiler and are definitely not gonna put it back in, I'd like to discuss taking it off your hands. As I said above, I'm in the XT3 Tour Pro and looking to do some experimentation. While I love the fit and touring in it, I don't love the way it skis. One idea I have is that I am used to more forward lean in a boot, so adding that spoiler might help me ski the boot a bit more forward. I've just pulled the rear spoiler out of a Scarpa Freedom SL (which I think is the same across many of their boots) and bolted it in there to start fiddling with stuff.

Same goes if either of you (or anyone else in this thread) is ditching the 140 power strap, or either the 130 or 140 liners. The liner that comes with the Tour Pro just doesn't seem that great, feel to me limp like wet noodle. I will also be trying out the Intuitions from my Scarpas, but those are 7 years old and likely shot (hence why I bought new boots) so if it proves out that they ski better than the stock liners, I'll be looking to get something better.

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Originally Posted by robnow

Also looking for a dedicated non touring liner. I work at an Atomic dealer so I grabbed some Mimics, nice in the ankle and tongue but shit in the forefoot, way too thin and loose (too much volume left, will try once more with the Bondex). Will probably end up with a foam injection.

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You too, sir. If you replace that XT3 140 liner with something lemme know, could be interested in the stock yours came with. But maybe you're gonna run the stock one for touring? Also an interesting idea... except the Tour Pro liner isn't even that great for the "skiing" part of touring.

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Originally Posted by gregL

Two days on my XT3 130 LV after 6 on my RS 130 plugs, and I'm stoked. There is definitely more volume out of the box, and I'm still trying to decide "if" and "how thick" a shim to run behind the liner cuff.

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From what I have read, the XT3 and XT3 Tour have the same forward lean. Did you decide to put a shim back there? How thick? And why? I have my reasons for wanting to try it out, curious to hear yours.

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Originally Posted by SoVT Joey

Here let me show you the new Lange liners that are now being shipped back to Lange for the xt tour pro. They are shit and the heel collapses due to the foot sole being to short sewn on the boot liner base.

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You've said the stock XT3 Tour Pro liners are garbage, and the XT3 130 liners are much better. I'm inclined to believe you. Question for you is: are you getting a different liner from Lange? You said the stock Tour Pro liners are "being shipped back to Lange" so are they sending you something different in return? And if so, how did that work? Because yeah... if I can get Lange to swap me out these for either the Dual 3D Liner RACE or FULL that would be rad. I'm not opposed to throwing money at the problem i.e. getting an Intuition or Zipfit, but if I can get a better skiing liner than what I have to start with that wouldn't suck either.

Also, isn't there that issue of aftermarket liners wanting to flip the tour mechanism back into ski mode while touring? Yes, yes there is... I read about it in the XT3 140 and 21/22 gear threads, and confirmed it last night by just chucking my Intuitions in the Lange and walking around the house. It seems like either the rougher/textured material of the liner or the stitching across that heel zone on the liner "grabs" the plastic wedge plate inside the boot that locks the cuff in place and moves it back into ski mode from tour mode. The general forum consensus is to loosen the upper cuff completely but being a guy who likes his upper cuff sorta semi-buckled and also being a tinkerer I thought there'd have to be a better way. I did some brainstorming with a bootfitter named Matt at Bent Gate last night, and we got looking at the mechanism and the liner for ideas. The Tour Pro liner has a piece of very soft and very smooth fabric right where the ski/tour wedge plate is in the boot, that assumably enables low friction against the wedge so the movement of the liner doesn't move the wedge. We came up with a couple of things that I am going to try out:

1. Some sort of smooth slippery tape to the plastic plate in the boot. That plate has a bunch of holes in it, so maybe that's what the rougher liner material is grabbing on to and able to move it? The other thought I had was the same, but different: cover the liner with something like K-Tape, which would be smoother and more slippery, and also smooth out the rib caused by the stitching, making that less likely to grab onto that plate.
2. Put a rear spoiler (shim, cuff, whatever you wanna call it) in there, that's just slightly thicker than the plastic ski/tour plate, and would hold the liner away from the plate just enough to give it room and not let the liner move the plate. I actually did a little proof of concept on this last night by bolting the rear spoiler from my Scarpa into the boot, chucking the Intuition in there, and walking around the house. I could see the lever on the outside wiggling a bit, but it never flipped into ski mode like it was doing without the cuff in there. Experimentation continues...

do you know if you have a Lange foot ?

from what I hear Lange people can just buy Langes including their AT boots and they will fit like every other lange

one of my ski buds often rides his bike past my house wearing lange AT boots

I wish I'd known you were boot shopping. I have Zero Gs in 27.5 you could have demo'd.
They ski great.

I know, I'm not helping.

did you do the foot scan app that GregL posted up?
It's a great way to get some feedback on your foot and he's a great bootfitter, but he's at EVO in seattle.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ot-Scanner-App

should be possible to get a punch in that inner left ankle area to alleviate the hot spot (just need a good bootfitter).

I've found that the Intuition Powerwrap liner is a good one for stiffening up the boot a bit (sounds like you are part of the way there with the Scarpa Liner).

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Originally Posted by XXX-er

do you know if you have a Lange foot ?

from what I hear Lange people can just buy Langes including their AT boots and they will fit like every other lange

one of my ski buds often rides his bike past my house wearing lange AT boots

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Honestly I don't know if my foot is a Lange foot... but these things do fit really nice out of the box. I can only assume that means I have a "Lange foot". WRT the same fit across all Langes, not sure that's exactly the case anymore. These boots in particular have a last width that is different than any of the other boots, which assumably means they'd fit differently.

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Originally Posted by N1CK.

I wish I'd known you were boot shopping. I have Zero Gs in 27.5 you could have demo'd.
They ski great.

I know, I'm not helping.

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You know, weren't we supposed to actually do something about skiing this week? Shit man, sorry I didn't get my poop in a group and confirm that with ya. Work has sucked anyways. But hey, if you ever wanna swap these boots for a day or two I'm down, I'd love to actually get more experience skiing different boots so I can start to figure out what works and what doesn't. Are yours the Zero G Tour Pro? Because as a mediocre skier, I can only ski Pro level boots. Obviously.

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Originally Posted by hoarhey

did you do the foot scan app that GregL posted up?
It's a great way to get some feedback on your foot and he's a great bootfitter, but he's at EVO in seattle.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...ot-Scanner-App

should be possible to get a punch in that inner left ankle area to alleviate the hot spot (just need a good bootfitter).

I've found that the Intuition Powerwrap liner is a good one for stiffening up the boot a bit (sounds like you are part of the way there with the Scarpa Liner).

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Dude, thanks for the resource. I'll check that out... it'll be good to know more specifically what kinda hoof I have. I had the same navicular issue with the Scarpas, and just heat molding the liner with a donut spacer in there fixed it entirely. No pain or blisters in the Scarpas for over 6 years, a pretty good run. And yeah, I think testing the Scarpa liner will be a good proof of concept to see if a more aggressive liner helps with skiability. I'm hopeful it will. Shit, I think even the spoiler will make a difference for me. Hoping gregL or other knowledgable folk chime in and either tell me I'm crazy or on to something.

GregL said that donut pad thing you did is another option for naviculars?

I have a spolier from the RX130 if you want a pair of those (those are the velcro backed ones, not bolt-through.

ALso, I have a set of of the RX130 booster strap with the cam buckle if you'd want those.

Maybe I can send you a photo of the boots I bought for parts, so you'd know the booster strap type (RX130 model from 2013 I think but is in great shape).

I'll do that via pm

I actually ended up selling my xt3 140s, so no spoilers, sorry. I liked the boot well enough, but it turns out my foot is still too low-volume for the XT3. Just don't have a lange foot. Back to Tecnica.

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My guess is you bought the wrong boot for a quiver of one. You're a big dude and you are overpowering the boot under the poor performance scenarios you described. You could add a stiffer liner to the boot, but it would probably diminish the range of movement and would add substantial weight. It would also put you hundreds more into a boot that is not well designed for your use case, and may not really deliver the performance you paid for. If you want to be able to charge inbounds and still be able to tour with the same boot, you should look for something burlier. Maybe next year's Cochise: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...ca-cochise-130

The cochise is what I was in previously. It's what I'm going back into as well as the mach1 lv 130.

I also threw an intuition into the xt3 and it did help actually, but ultimately I still ended up with my top buckles maxed out.

Edit: you may not have been talking to me...

Yeah, I was spraying at the OP.

Forgive me but everything in the OP's synopsis screams that he should be in the regular XT3 series (130 or 140) and NOT the Tour Pro. Nothing about the review is surprising. It's a lighter boot and skis so. The lack of rearward support sounds just like the previous generation Freetours which were also made of Grilamid so again, no surprises there.

TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...

It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)

Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?

It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.

Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.

There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.

... Thom

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...

It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)

Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?

It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.

Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.

There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.

... Thom

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I think Thom is on track. I don't know about the ramp inside the Scarpa's, but I'm guessing its a lot steeper than Langes. Try a heel lift, start with 1/8" and then try more

Right on, I appreciate the responses. I was hopeful that some other XT3 Tour folks would get in here, and maybe they still will. But this is helpful for my knowledge... having not owned tons of ski boots I can't say that I know what I like and don't like, what works well for me and what doesn't. There's a lot that goes into boot design I'm learning, and maybe the general population won't notice a lot of the nuances in different ramp angles, plastics, etc. But once you start demanding more of your equipment these things start making more of a difference, even as a mediocre skier.

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Originally Posted by Wapow

My guess is you bought the wrong boot for a quiver of one. You're a big dude and you are overpowering the boot under the poor performance scenarios you described. You could add a stiffer liner to the boot, but it would probably diminish the range of movement and would add substantial weight. It would also put you hundreds more into a boot that is not well designed for your use case, and may not really deliver the performance you paid for. If you want to be able to charge inbounds and still be able to tour with the same boot, you should look for something burlier. Maybe next year's Cochise: https://blisterreview.com/gear-revie...ca-cochise-130

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You might well be correct on this WRT "wrong boot for a quiver of one" and the only counter I have is... I don't think I'd want this boot as a tour-only boot either. All of the behaviors I've outlined I felt on the tours I did as well. One quick example: skiing soft 3D snow and getting into a rhythm with my turns and then hitting a hidden rib of wind slab kinda mid-turn made the boot feel like it was folding in the middle (my second bullet point). So yeah maybe a ~1600g boot just isn't in the cards for me, or just not this particular 1600g boot. Hopefully, I have some low-investment options to do some experimentation and figure this out, before I write these boots off and sell them.

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Originally Posted by robnow

Forgive me but everything in the OP's synopsis screams that he should be in the regular XT3 series (130 or 140) and NOT the Tour Pro. Nothing about the review is surprising. It's a lighter boot and skis so. The lack of rearward support sounds just like the previous generation Freetours which were also made of Grilamid so again, no surprises there.

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The whole Grilamid vs. PU thing is absolutely something I wonder about as well. Stiff, Light, Damp: pick any two, right? Grilamid is stiff and light, and not damp. I think. More brittle. Could very well be contributing to what I am feeling. Who knew you had to also be a fucking materials scientist to be a skier? JTFC.

The regular XT3 series may very well be a good option depending on a few factors. First, there's forward lean and ramp angle that Thom talked about, maybe I just don't get along with the flat stance of the Lange? The other thing here is, this 99mm last feels pretty fucking good... 97mm just seems like it'd be too snug for my foot given that navicular issue (though it could be punched?) and how the 99 feels, and would the 100mm last of the regular XT3 be too much like the 101 of the Scarpa? If the Lange has better heel hold at 100 than the Scarpa, it could work. But then fuck, I do think I'd want the stiffer liner, spoiler, and thicker strap of the 140 and that isn't available in a 100mm last. And mother fucking fuck those GripWalk soles... just why? WHY?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

TL;DR, although my OCD appreciates the thoroughness (and I'll return to a full read of this soon) ...

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Heh... your response wasn't all that short either, despite not having read the whole post. I look forward to your thoughts when you have time, seriously. Now, speaking of a lot to unpack...

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

It may well be that you don't have a Lange foot, but how can you judge a boot without molding the liners? This makes no sense to me. I don't know if Lange's liners have improved, but my first year's XT 130 Freetour liners were terrible. I never would have purchased them (or worse ... purchased the next larger shell size) had I not slipped a pair of my Intuiutions into them.

In any case, liners were made to be molded so ... you know ... you can mold them ;-)

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So... what the fuck is a Lange foot? Someone else asked that earlier... all I can say is the boot seems to fit my hoof pretty damn well, better than the Scarpa out of the box. I only have one hot spot, and that's a known issue that can be taken care of when heat molding the liner or punching if need be. And the pain on that navicular isn't so bad that it's keeping me from skiing, so I guess I'm not sure how heat molding them will make the boots magically ski differently or better or whatever. FWIW, the approach I've been told with new boots is if they fit relatively well out of the box, one should go ski them for a few days and get settled in so you know what issues you want to address when you do heat mold them. So that's where I was... but now I'm being stubborn about baking them in case I end up selling them. You know... "Basically brand new! Less than 10 days on 'em! Liners never baked! I just suck at skiing and can't get along with the Lange flat stance!" or whatever.

As for the liners being garbage... SoVT Joey has said as much with the Tour Pro liner. He also asserts that the regular 130 flex XT3 liner made a huge difference in how the boot skied overall, so I'm gonna chuck the Scarpa/Intuitions in there to see if and how much difference that makes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Secondly, this lack of a supportive spine everyone reports, completely blows my mind. Are all of you guys dropping cliffs like Barkared, Turdell and company?

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I am not dropping cliffs, but there's plenty of other places where rear ward support seems like a good idea. I'm thinking about skiing through the woods out of a hut, crossing weird gullies and other "g-out" spots where the terrain is just throwing you off balance and demanding a bit of spine support. Even for people with good balance this seem like a good thing, but for people with shitty balance like me even more critical. I'm sure we could come up with other non cliff hucker examples. Also, I'm a big dude that doesn't ski as far forward all the time as I ought to. I'm working on it, but until I get there my big ass is gonna need some spine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

It dawns on me that you may not bond with the Lange flat stance. I was a fairly late adopter of modern skis ... maybe 8 years ago. When I tried on my Freetours in the shop, they felt a bit odd, but suddenly, everything people were saying about flat stances began to make sense in the context of modern skis. It took me about 2 hours to get used to the new stance and I'd never go back. I can envision this not being the case for everyone,.

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This feels like the gem in your post, to me. I was already kinda wondering about the stance, hadn't really considered ramp angle but was definitely thinking about the forward lean, hence my experiment of a rear spoiler. But yeah, if a flat ramp angle isn't my jam, then maybe this ain't the boot for me.

Data point: Other than the Volkl Bridge I had for a season when I first started skiing 12 years ago, I have never owned a non modern ski. Rossi S7, Atomic Bent Chet, Soul 7, Atris, Corvus Freebird. I picked up a Rossi RC112 to dick around with because I've read so much about it's legacy that I wanted to try it out. It's a handful for a guy like me. But yeah... pretty much all modern skis I think. Not disagreeing with you about the flat stance possibly being "a" thing that's hitching my giddyup, just a data point.

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

Rent some tele gear for 3 or 4 days and find your balance point.

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Dude, don't get me started on my balance. Broken right ankle with two surgeries to fix it. Broke my left femur inside my hip socket, also surgical. Broke five vertebrae with one basically crushed, and am now fused through 4 of those vertebrae with rods and shit. My balance SUCKS. It sucks so much, the first time I tried learning to surf my instructor said "My friend, you have bad balance!" as I was paddling out... I hadn't even tried to fucking stand up yet. A lot of days I feel like it's a goddamned miracle I can even ski.

As for the suggestion to rent tele gear... if I had any balance whatsoever I'd probably ski tele. More than half my ski partners are on tele gear, and I do own a tele setup but can't drop a knee to turn to save my fucking life. If I could, I'd be participating in the "Why the fuck can't Scarpa make a lighter TX Comp?" thread... if there is one.

And if this was a thinly veiled wisecrack basically telling me to learn how to ski, well then now we're getting some of that snark I was promised. ;)

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Originally Posted by galibier_numero_un

There's a lot to unpack above, and I'll return to this ... when I'm not in such a snarky mood.

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Thanks for your thoughts, there was less snark than maybe you think. Or I'm just used to the level of snark that TGR often provides so it didn't seem bad.

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Originally Posted by turnfarmer

I think Thom is on track. I don't know about the ramp inside the Scarpa's, but I'm guessing its a lot steeper than Langes. Try a heel lift, start with 1/8" and then try more

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Good suggestion. Though at what point of shoving heel lifts in there do you just say fuck it and get a boot with more ramp angle? I've dug around and can't seem to find the ramp angle of the Scarpa. I know the forward lean is 2º more... so maybe a little FL and RA and this boot will work. But again, at what point do you just get a different boot?

Being a somewhat similarly large human (but not as big as you) I think the cochise or maybe the XT3 130/140 may be what you want. As nice as it would be to have a more dedicated touring boot, I've found that the cochise is about as much as I'm willing to compromise. The performance even between my mach1's and the cochise is very noticable.

I'm unwilling to compromise the beefiness of the cochise 130 for different reasons than you, but what you're describing about balance and your other foot issues I think suggests a more beefy boot than a touring specific boot like the xt3 tour or something like a zeroG. I can relate to a couple things like your low instep. Additionally, what you're describing in terms of instability sounds like it could be a mix of a lateral stiffness that doesn't match up with what you need, and I would make an argument that you may not have a boot that's as snug as you need around your tibia/ankle, even with an increased heel hold.

I think what you may experience if you get the volume correct around your tib/fib & ankle with both boot volume and a footbed will result in less pronation and you may find the width of your foot more narrow than your previous experience.

Course I could just be wrong too. But what you're describing isn't foreign to me personally in the cochise and XT3, or from what I've experienced fitting boots in the past.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk

You rang?

Still waiting on langes response about the noodle liners. They don’t have enough complaints yet to figure out what to do, but I also told them I’m not in that much of a rush. I have been skiing my xt3 liner in my xt3 tour pro. It’s definitely better. I’m waiting for my intuition tour tongue to come. I have a feeling that will be a lot better.

I have a Lange foot. I can ski a Lange stock with a 2 minute grinding usually in the sixth two. The 97 I can slide into after about 5 minutes in she’ll work and then I can full send. Heel fits perfect. I have a low volume heel, flat wide-ish foot with a lower instep.

The stance is very close to the same as the xt3 and the other langes.

I have about ten tours on them. I really like them. Some of the best TOURING boots I’ve been in. I’ve skied the hoji, sold that and bought the Lange.

I capitalized TOURING above. Here’s why. It definitely skis like a 1600g touring grilamid boot. This boot is perfect for backcountry missions, scrambling, boot packing, skiing steeps with confidence in equipment. They definitely ski. But they DEFINITELY DONT ski like the xt3 plastics. They aren’t as damp and they don’t have as nearly of a smooth flex.

The only way I would have this boot as my dedicated boot would be if I skied backcountry 3:1 or more, if I worked in mountain ops, or was coaching. I would still have an alpine boot for hard snow.

It sounds like the guys have all said it. I’ll say it again. It sounds like you should be in a XT3 50/50 boot.

I really shit all over the xt3 130 in the beginning. And I still feel like the walk mechanism is a huggggeeeee piece of dog shit. But the xt3 130 and the tour pro definitely ski and feel like langes. I really like them. A lot. I don’t hesitate to drive in either pair.

Alright, finally got out and skied the Tour Pros with my "mods" i.e. the rear spoiler bolted in and the liner from the Scarpas. The TL;DR version is: the boots skied way better with those changes.

I skied closing day at Crested Butte on a mix of steep boney trees, steep bumps, wide open groomers, blah blah blah. Everything covered in slush... which was super warm and sloooooooow and wet on anything mid-mountain and below. The kinda slush where just sitting on the tails starts to feel like the right thing to do so the suction of sloppy wet snow on your haven't been waxed in months 108 underfoot skis doesn't send you over the bars. Anycrap, even the 7-year-old blown out liners skied better than the stock Lange ones, and the rear spoiler seemed to help put me more into the stance I'm used to and give more support in general.

Not quite ready to give up on these boots, but at the same time I am certainly cognizant that a Cochise, XT3, or other 50/50 oriented boot might very well be what's best for me. I still want to get the boots up to my local hill and try different configurations of things... if for no other reason than to figure out how different hacks affect boot performance. I also picked up some Booster straps and I think hoarhey is sending me some RX straps and velcro spoilers to try out as well.

I appreciate everyone's input so far.

Lange XT3 Tour Pro vs Tecnica Zero G Pro

Some notes wearing both around the shop (I own the 27.5 Tecnica), both with the same Lange liner.

Lange weight: 1570g
Tecnica weight w/ same liner:1440g

Fitwise, to me with the same liner they fit SO similar, honestly would be happy with either one. Lange feels like slightly more forward lean than the Tecnica (set at 12degree). Perhaps the Lange has slightly more rearward support but its barely discernable in the shop. Slightly smoother and softer flex in the Lange and the tongue liner does a nice job on smoothing out the flex of the Tecnica over stock. Touring range of motion seems to be about the same in both with noticably less friction/smoother on the Tecnica.

Conclusion is I'm probably keeping the slightly more touring focused Zero G over the possibly ever so slight ski feel of the Lange for longer dedicated touring days.

as for mods, I know a guy who have been experimenting with trimming the cuffs to get better range of motion. No, this picture is not an actual depiction of how much they have trimmed off - I haven't actually seen his boots - but more to demonstrate where they have trimmed em in case it was not obbvious. Said individual was happy with the mod. He got his pair early last season - way before they were released - so he should have had plenty of days on them.
Attachment 385539

I can't say that I am that keen to get a pair of XT Pro Tours as dedicated touring boots to compliment my XT3 130s (resort and 50/50/travel boots). I feel that Hawx Ultra XTD 130s with an appropriate Intuition liner is a better / more versatile option as a dedicated touring boot. I find them to tour slightly better than XT3s, even if they do not flex as dynamically (especially backwards).

any other feedback on these boots?

The liners are garbage. Boot skis and fits great when you take a 100g penalty with the xt3 130 liner. IMO, they’re every bit as good as my old xt free, except lighter and a full rockered sole. For a big dude, after suffering through a bunch of other lightweight options, they’re as light as I want to go.

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Originally Posted by jackattack

The liners are garbage. Boot skis and fits great when you take a 100g penalty with the xt3 130 liner. IMO, they’re every bit as good as my old xt free, except lighter and a full rockered sole. For a big dude, after suffering through a bunch of other lightweight options, they’re as light as I want to go.

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That’s definitely my feeling as well. Lange sent me a XT3 liner as a replacement for that junk liner when I sent it back originally. I’m holding out for a little more beta on the GFT before pulling the trigger, I have used my gara lv in them and they walked great, but I did notice the cork migrating a little bit and it took a minute to get it back to the right spot in my plugs

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Originally Posted by jackattack

The liners are garbage. Boot skis and fits great when you take a 100g penalty with the xt3 130 liner. IMO, they’re every bit as good as my old xt free, except lighter and a full rockered sole. For a big dude, after suffering through a bunch of other lightweight options, they’re as light as I want to go.

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Same here. I kinda let this thread languish, but I also went with the XT3 130 liner and the difference is noticeable in how they ski, no appreciable difference walking other than the extra 100g or so. I also kept the spoiler from a Scarpa in them (plus a little rubber gasket I hand cut) to give me a little more forward lean. I'm still a couple-three hundred grams lighter per foot than my last boots, the fit is better, and they ski great now.

Not sure who all might benefit from this but I figured I'd share my experience with 40-50 days in mine.

I've skied them with the liners that they came with throughout the time. Initially when I skied the boots I was horrified by how upright they were and how hard it was to get forward and over my skis even with the top buckles moved over and clamped way down. Ultimately I bought some spoilers from Dodge ski boots ($25, https://dodgeskiboots.com/shop/spoilers/) and used some Velcro tape to put those on the back of my liners and it fixed nearly everything. I had figured I might want to remove the spoilers for the uphill and put them back on for down, but they make such little difference touring I just leave them on all the time.

Prior to that I'd tried heel lifts but found that the way the boot heel cup of the shell is shaped it caused horrible pain on the lateral and medial side of my heel bone.

I'm pretty pleased with their flex and driveability, though as others have mentioned their flex is pretty progressive until you hit the far end at which point it abruptly stops flexing, which isn't a big deal and seems fairly common. I know these boots are rated 130 flex but they ski slightly softer than my alpine World Cup 120s.

Pretty much everyone I've encountered skiing these boots has felt like they're much too upright and is usually very interested in my spoiler solution.

I'm disappointed with how finnicky the walk mode is. It definitely feels strong but the precision of the movement that's required has been problematic. I've had a number of times boot packing where enough snow gets between the upper and lower metal blocks that even when the lever gets lowered the boot won't snap back into ski mode. I solved this by adding a $3 Oxo nylon kitchen brush to my kit, but it really seems like something I shouldn't have to do with a boot like this.

Then, even more frustratingly, on a recent hut trip in BC it got really cold (like -20 F) and the whole mechanism would freeze up in walk mode leading to lots of super fun banging and slamming on the little metal block that wouldn't move back down. Twice the mechanism only partially locked back into ski mode so it would feel nice and locked when standing and transitioning, but then when I went to ski and put some oomph onto the mechanism it would pop back open. It sucked the couple times it happened -- once the upper buckles even managed to get out from under the upper cuff wrap; thought it'd strangle my foot until I could stop and get it fixed. I've now coated all the mechanical bits back in the walk mechanism with PTFE lubricant in hopes of fixing this, but don't really know what else to do (also probably won't get cold enough here again to test thoroughly this year).

Then there are the stupid durability things that have happened: one of the pull loops on the back of a liner ripped away from the harder plastic backing on the back of the liner. I used some heavy duty thread (35 lb test) and sewed the loop back onto the liner, then did the same through the hard plastic but it feels like it's only a matter of time till it fails. Then on the other boot the power strap tore around the secondary screw that holds the power strap in place while I was pulling my boots on (not the burlier midline screw in the back but the one about 3" away from that).

Overall they're strong solid boots that ski well but I've been a bit frustrated by how unrefined they are.

Has anyone tried swapping Pro Tours into their XT3s yet? Curious about weight savings vs performance vs fit changes.

I've been skiing a 26.5 Hawx Ultra XTD but it feels too big for my ankles/heel while the 25.5 crushes my toes, so I'm curious about trying the XT3 Tour Pro. Has anyone skied both and have any comparisons between the two fit wise? How does the fit of the Tour Pro compare to the XT3 free?

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Originally Posted by vonn

Has anyone tried swappin Pro Tours into their XT3s yet? Curious about weight savings vs performance vs fit changes.

I've been skiing a 26.5 Hawx Ultra XTD but it feels too big for my ankles/heel while the 25.5 crushes my toes, so I'm curious about trying the XT3 Tour Pro. Has anyone skied both and have any comparisons between the two fit wise? How does the fit of the Tour Pro compare to the XT3 free?

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i have a xt3 and a xt3 pro tour and a XRi pink panther. The pro tour fits a lot like the xt3, but I find both of their heel pockets large and I ended up with a Zipfit gara lv that I swap between all three. There is very little difference in fit with that liner. I’m ordering the GFT for my pro tour and I think that will be the ultimate. The pro tour is definitely more upright and a lot softer then the xt3. It’s more like a 115 flex then a 130 compared to the xt3

I did try my stock pro tour liner in my xt3 before I sent it back, that stock pro tour liner is just absolute shit, so be prepared to just buy some other liner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vonn

I've been skiing a 26.5 Hawx Ultra XTD but it feels too big for my ankles/heel while the 25.5 crushes my toes, so I'm curious about trying the XT3 Tour Pro. Has anyone skied both and have any comparisons between the two fit wise? How does the fit of the Tour Pro compare to the XT3 free?

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The tour pro is wider in the forefoot than the xt3 lv, which is wider than the rx130 lv or rs130. The heel pocket feels the same to me across all of the lasts.

You sound like a tecnica fit to me. Narrower heel, a bit wider in across the ball of the foot than the Lange and atomic.

Thanks for the feedback! I should clarify that I'm looking at the 25.5 specifically. I tried on an XT3 Free in 25.5 earlier today and thought it felt pretty snug without any crushing so I was excited to see that there's a more touring focused option. I have a 26 Pro Tour MV that sounds like it might work as a replacement liner. Also have a Zipfit if it comes to that but hoping to keep the boot light. At this point I'm totally fine compromising downhill performance some if I can get something that fits.

I actually tried the ZGTP in a 26.5 the last two seasons, but I needed a lot of work in the forefoot/instep and even then I couldn't get the heel locked down. Got an insane blister going up to Camp Muir on Rainier and decided to try something else. Weirdly I felt the Atomic Ultra fit my forefoot better out of the box than the Tecnica, but maybe that's a function of the relative length of the two.

Stopped in the store to check the liner weight - a 25.5 XT3 liner with stock footbed came out to 272g whereas a 26 Pro Tour with a Sidas footbed came out to 279g.

How do the XT tour’s fit relative to a ZGTP or Hawx ultra XTD?

I’ve got a skinny ankle, heel and lower calf, but a higher instep and average forefoot width.

Loving my Promachine 130’s in resort in a race fit. I similarly seem to fit an RX130 well out of the box. Wondering if the Lange will give me better comfort and performance than my Frankenstein Tecnicas.

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Originally Posted by Bamski

How do the XT tour’s fit relative to a ZGTP or Hawx ultra XTD?

I’ve got a skinny ankle, heel and lower calf, but a higher instep and average forefoot width.

Loving my Promachine 130’s in resort in a race fit. I similarly seem to fit an RX130 well out of the box. Wondering if the Lange will give me better comfort and performance than my Frankenstein Tecnicas.

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ZGTP is significantly lower in the instep and slightly wider in the forefoot. Hawx is slightly narrower everywhere. I switched from a Zero G with a punched instep to an XT3 tour pro and was very happy about it (my other boot is an XT3 LV). I generally fit low volume Lange boots right out of the box (worked as a boot fitter for 5 years and got to try on just about everything), but am not affected negatively by the slightly wider last of the XT3 tour.

60+ days spent touring and hucking my meat around Rogers Pass, the Monashees and the western Canadian Rockies last year and they have held up fairly well. Never skied the stock liner as I threw in a Surefoot Ascent right away (great heel grip).

Also, get a WC strap or booster on there instead of the garbage it comes with.

Like others have reported, the ski/walk mode jams with snow all of the time and I frequently need to push it in with the top of my pole handle to get it to lock. Rather annoying I must say, but it's by the far the best boot for my foot so I can deal with it.

Thanks!

I’ve had the ZGTP for a few years and just struggled to get it skiing well for me (feels like maybe a bit too much room in the shell fit).

Does the XT3 feel noticeably shorter or longer than the ZGTP? I love hearing that it’s got a more generous instep

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Originally Posted by Bamski

Thanks!

I’ve had the ZGTP for a few years and just struggled to get it skiing well for me (feels like maybe a bit too much room in the shell fit).

Does the XT3 feel noticeably shorter or longer than the ZGTP? I love hearing that it’s got a more generous instep

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Definitely shorter. The Zero G was spot on for my foot length (261mm, 25 shell). The Lange is more restrictive in the toe box but I never lost circulation or acquired bruises, therefore never punched or ground it.

How does the Tour Pro ski and walk compared to an XTD 130?

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

How does the Tour Pro ski and walk compared to an XTD 130?

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guess I can chime in. Newly subscribed JONG from Italy, been lurking for years soaking up all the knowledge and satire, I guess I can try playing with the big boys now. Hopefully I can introduce myself properly at some point. All insults are welcome.

I owned the lime green xt-free.
Then I moved on to Cochises.
Now I'm in ultra xtd 130.
I have tried on the tour pro in a shop (FWIW, usually nothing and I place almost 0 trust in carpet testing but I do think it could hold some value given my extended experience with the old xt free).
I prefer the xtd more for everything. I guess I'm biased given the fact it is the boot which has fit me best throughout the years but some of the drawbacks in the freetour line are pretty tangible (eg. that finicky ski-walk latch).

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Originally Posted by oltrepiave

guess I can chime in. Newly subscribed JONG from Italy, been lurking for years soaking up all the knowledge and satire, I guess I can try playing with the big boys now. Hopefully I can introduce myself properly at some point. All insults are welcome.

I owned the lime green xt-free.
Then I moved on to Cochises.
Now I'm in ultra xtd 130.
I have tried on the tour pro in a shop (FWIW, usually nothing and I place almost 0 trust in carpet testing but I do think it could hold some value given my extended experience with the old xt free).
I prefer the xtd more for everything. I guess I'm biased given the fact it is the boot which has fit me best throughout the years but some of the drawbacks in the freetour line are pretty tangible (eg. that finicky ski-walk latch).

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the xt free skis and performs a lot lower then the xt tour pro from my experience, and I have considerable time in both. The walk mechanism does suck in the tour pro. That’s the only issue with the boot I have since replacing the garbage liner that they send stock.

the XTD is closer to the xt130 in comparison. Tour pro is more of a full tech boot then either. Gripwalk blows for scrambling compared to a 9523 sole.

Rebound is better in both the XTD and the XT130 then the tour pro, but the weight difference is noticeable.

I wouldn’t buy a XT tour pro unless I had plans on a aftermarket liner right off the bat or owned a liner I would be sticking in them. My GFT is the most amazing upgrade I’ve ever made in a boot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

How does the Tour Pro ski and walk compared to an XTD 130?

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Any more commentary on the above?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Thomas

Any more commentary on the above?

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XTD will ski better. Tour Pro will walk better with a better liner I have found. Tour pro still skis well and I like the vibram sole as well. The XT130 will walk as well as the XTD and ski better then bothe the XTD and the Tour Pro.