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Was the gate at 9990 open?
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Was the gate at 9990 open?
AFAIK, it doesn't shut. If 9990 is spinning, the gapes are bettering down Dutch's.Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1
Hope no one died.
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god this breaks my heart. i sure hope everyone is safe.
terrifying to see all the slide activity on the N side of the PC ridge line. it sure is scary out there.
UAC Confirms one adult male buried. They dropped about 8 charges below the ridge line about a half hour ago.
Dude and his girlfriend exited the 9990 gate, she watched it take him. Called Ski Patrol, they relayed to SCSO. Helicopter located a Recco signal, still haven't found the body.
fuk
vibes
Hearing from medical peeps that a body has been recovered. No official word yet as far as I can see.
Initial report was around 11:30AM, the timeline is bad news. Hoping for a good outcome but, vibes ready.
Fuck this season already, after all it started in 2020.
+++vibes+++
The gate has been open all week. I took a few laps on 9990 on Tuesday. Good snow, but very rocky.
Four slides since Monday in 9990 gate accessible terrain. SMFH why the gate is open. Then again, I have only seen the gate closed on one or two different occasions during the past 15 or so years
https://twitter.com/SummitCountySO
recovered. sad day. same spot as last year looks like.
There were 3 slides in that area a few days ago. Snow pack is super sketch. This cono is sticking to low angle terrain until spring. Vibes to family and friends, especially his GF who had to witness that tragic decision.
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While the area just south of the cliff band on Soul Patch has always been very vulnerable, the slides usually begin somewhere along the band. This slide started way up high. It looks like he just jumped in and boom it slide top to bottom.
Wow, that is fucking horrible. Can’t even imagine what his GF is going through at the moment.
Nobody in their right mind can contend that this is "prime/pristine" backcountry terrain. I say let The Canyons/PCMR incorporate it into the resort boundaries and control/patrol it. It's a cheese wedge of siren song backcountry terrain for beaters, just fucking turn it into inbounds terrain.
Preliminary
https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/57327
It's not that simple. Problem is, where do you draw the line and still have open gates to access the backcountry beyond. Just kicks the can down the ridge. Plus anything either side of 9990 is FS, so you are talking about major ski area expansion and more ways for tourists to find themselves lost in BCC.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
In the first place, FUCK. i agree with glademaster.Quote:
Originally Posted by JKnight
It doesn't have to be more terrain. Just expand the control boundaries to include the area between 9990 and 5. It's not like there isn't a precedent for control work to be done on FS land. It might not be that simple, which means, it might take a pen stroke and some money.
PCMR and the Canyons operate on private land, mixing a USFS permit with private land management is not that simple.
That said, I agree that it is probably the best solution along with making access involve more effort than an easy traverse.
I was three beers deep and just flinging shit at the wall to see what stuck. I'm sure it isn't a simple process, but given where that swath of terrain is located relative to lift served, in bounds skiing, it seems like the best option.
It has been discussed in the past and discarded until the next stupid death.
U are right about one thing in “It might not be that simple”. When U say “control boundaries” I assume that means a rope line, on the ridgeline, from 9990 to peak 5. This is a long distance in wind exposed/drifted terrain. On the other side of that rope line, in BIg Cottonwood Canyon (Beartrap and Willow), is pristine beginner/intermediate backcountry/touring Terrain. There will be folks touring onto that ridgeline from BCC while control work is occurring. The four Dutch Draw fatalities have occurred on High Dutch and more specifically Conehead. 9990 lift was built in 1998. The last thing Vail Resorts wants is to take responsibility for an area where can’t sell real estate. If they have to haul out a body every five years or even five bodies every year it is just part of the business model. More terrain at less expense. Much of the terrain in upper BCC is private land from mining claims. There will be efforts to build on backcountry terrain we take for granted. By protecting the PC ridgeline we are also protecting upper BCC. The interconnect is coming with a ton of money behind it. As far as skier safety and resort responsibility I prefer the European model of education and individual responsibility and limited lawyering. Go ski St. Anton and have your mind blown.Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
Good points. I would like to add that no one is guaranteed backcountry access from the boundary of a ski area.
PCMR could close their boundaries (again) or re-locate the access gates and tell people to walk if they want to ski outside of the operating area.
Part of the deal to build 9990 lift was a permanent backcountry access gate. The original access gate, when American Skiing Co. owned, was slightly below the unload station. This meant no need for blatant rope ducking and most users drained down ez street and safest route back to resort. However there was no shortage of traversers getting into terrain trap, danger areas under High Dutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
There may be an opportunity here for Vail to develop a few more palaces. These Colony Xtreme properties would be built in the runout zones of DD, Square Top, etc. Multi-purpose toy barns could serve as avalanche berms. The POA would contract with the resort for control work and recreation easements can be drawn into the purchase agreements. Somewhat of a precedent already exists in McDonalds Draw between 9990 and 5. Everybody wins! :rolleyes:
In the meantime, RIP to the deceased. I hope that those in the know make conservative choices and look out for others that don't know any better.
Vail resorts is a real estate/property management company that has chosen ski resorts as their niche market. Red Pine Lake at the base of Squaretop is, in my opinion, the most beautiful spot in the Park City area. It is prime McMansion land if Osguthorpe ever decides to cash out. The Colony was and is a disaster for public access. The mid-mountain trail was a win but we need to maintain access to public lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by JKnight
88 million new people in the past 30 years will do this kind of a thing.
Ache said they just rolled down the blinds so the patrol didn't have to watch. That was in the old days.Quote:
However there was no shortage of traversers getting into terrain trap, danger areas under High Dutch.
It's not the same thing, but at Kirkwood their control boundaries are greater than the resort boundaries and include sidecountry terrain because they are also responsible for controlling the area above the homes in the valley. It's not part of their daily routes though.
I don’t want it closed. My family calls High Dutch the orphanage. I’ve told my kids if I ever see or hear about them there or on square top, I never pay for them to ski again. It’s frustrating it took another life. It’s just so attractive sitting there in clear site line.
Here are my 9990 gate rules.
1: never before MLK day
2: Never between soul patch and movie line
3: never directly under soul patch
4: never when uac tells me not too
5: only shoulder, south face or north tree line of square top
6: never without full pack
Interesting to see all the Vail vitriol...I’m no fan of the corporate mothership...and am 🤏 this close to swearing off the Epic Local next year...BUT...one must point out that 9990 was put in well before Vail ever swooped in and stole PCMR...and the deaths on that ridge line well predate Vail (and the Colony)....
And S-piste’s rules rule! Follow them and live to skin another day
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Where are you seeing the Vail vitriol? Not in this thread. At least certainly not as it pertains to the gate at 9990.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coño Frío
i think those are very sensible rules. i just don't think it is possible to convey that level of personal responsibility through any amount of signage at a gate. problem with signs is, they only work if you read them.Quote:
Originally Posted by schindlerpiste
On Saturday the only exit from 9990 were the red pine chutes. Sinage at the top clearly stated that. People were getting stranded their all morning tell I left. Instructors were brining down classes, and being shocked the lower exits were closed. So yeah, people don't read the signs.Quote:
Originally Posted by tgapp
This is not a Vail issue. It's a human nature issue exacerbated by proximity. Most of the people laying tracks down wouldn't ever be there if they had to walk from the bottom.
Vail can't blast up there. If they started that, some lawyer would immediately attempt to hold them responsible, regardless of what any agreement says. Every person that enters that area legally does so past the You Can Die Here sign. How many times do you see people taking pictures by that sign?
Unfortunately, I think the answer is, this will continue, so Follow Schindler's rules. If your really making the list, I would probably say Square top never. Yes I've skied it, but even under a stable snow pack, would it surprise you if it went? There is just not a good surface for the snow to adhere to on that slick rock face.
Peace to the guys family and girlfriend.
Is no one going to call it Schindler's list??Quote:
Originally Posted by Canada1
It wouldn't be hard to design gates that won't open unless you're beeping.
Turning a bunch of frequently wind loaded, back country alpine slopes into in-bounds terrain that would need constant mitigation efforts would be very expensive.
Maybe it's a dangerous sport and people die sometimes. Maybe there isn't a internet forum that can come up with a solution.