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Well the youngest wants to kayak...which means I’ve been volunteered to go with. I could certainly use some advice on boats/skirts/paddles. Never even sat in one.
Open to hand me down gear that’s local as well.
Thoughts?
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Whitewater or Touring? That will make a big difference on gear just like alpine or Nordic skiing.
Whitewater
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Ok, whitewater. Kayak sizing is based on your weight and measured in Gallons of volume. Manufacturers give a weight range and a Gallon measurement for each boat. Beginners want to be in the bottom of the weight range so the kayaks edges will float higher and be less grabby to flip you. Example: If a kayaks weight range is 140-200lbs, a beginner would want to be 140-150lb range to leave them some extra float. That’s the basics of sizing.
Then there are two ways to go.
1) Buy new boats. Liquid Logic Remix are great beginner boats that come in 4 sizes to fit you and your kid. They are a great independent company (The Mags of the kayak world) that sells direct and will ship to your door. Price is about a $1000 each and they will hold their resale well as they are a popular boat. Lots of people start in a Remix and still keep them as that are great river runners.
2)Buy used boats. Plan on spending lots of time researching to get to know what boats are good for beginners. Used boats are $400-$500 for anything reasonably current and in good shape. A used Remix or Dagger Mamba would be a safe bet for beginners. Feel free to let me know you and your kids size and weights and pm me if you find some used boats that you are curious about.
Good luck, have fun, and get some lessons/instruction. You can probably rent/demo boats for your first few outings from the outfitter/guide.
You seem really excited. Did your dog die in a tragic kayak accident?Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
how old ? IME kids doing the WW usually doesnt work all that well till they have hit puberty to get a bit more strength and a bit more size to fit the gear, altho I have seen a small for his size 11 yr old do rodeo moves in one of them small size jackson fun using a cut down lightning paddle
YOu gotta really wana do it if yer gona do it
She is 9, super shredding aggressive and strong kid. I’ve never even sat in one, hence my hesitation....found her a super on sale Jackson fun 1.5.... signed up for a lesson for the 2 of us.
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The best advice I can give is try not to die.
That’s my fear....
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my kid got into WW it at 14 with adult size gear, he did well but he had the strength, size and was a good athelite
9 is pretty young someone that young tends to lack body strength but at least the Fun 1 or Fun 1.5 are small enough
outfitting the seat hips and knees to be snug like a ski boot with mini-cell is pretty key to boat control so the paddler doesnt slop around in the boat
BTW for someone that small paddles are pretty easy to cut down cuz there is not alot of stress in the middle of the paddle shaft SO
- cut a chunk of shaft from the middle,
- whittle a 5" plug to go inside the shaft, epoxy it into one side and clamp it straight for curing, IME a BD workmate table worked great for this, tilt the table on its side to let the epoxy flow into the plug
- epoxy/clamp the 2 halves together in the table, tilt the table on its side again to let the epoxy flow into the joint
- don't forget to set the feather, i would put it at 15degree, if you have questions just ask
IME you really want to really want to be there
Dude it's gonna be a fkn blast. Best summers I ever had were spent paddling whitewater every day.
Be ready to be humbled! Are you (very) comfortable in the water? Strong understanding of swimming and water movement? You'll be spending a lot of time upsidedown, half-trapped with your hips in a plastic shell, trying not to panic while holding your breath, figuring out how to roll. Rolling is the key, you must practice this and become proficient before going out on the river or you'll have a bad time, mmkay. Your kid will learn it easily but you will have more habit to overcome.
Rolling is easy, but you need a solid mentor. Doesn't need to be a pro instructor, but if it's a friend or acquaintance they need to be ready to adapt to your comfort level. WEAR SWIM GOGGLES whether in the pool or the pond so you can see the position of your paddle, and to gain comfort/confidence in an otherwise dark workspace.
Watch good paddlers and observe the apparent ease of their movements. Core is king, wrist/blade movements are subtle but important. In lower volume boats, weight transfer becomes another huge factor.
eta: get the fit right as Al mentioned
Real steep learning curve - at least it was for me. Weekly pool sessions should be in the plan. Lessons like you mentioned.
Don't rush getting on the river, but when you do, bring others. Even a strong boater will have their hands full with a beginner. 1:1 or even 2:1 with a beginner is ideal - one gets the boater, the other gets the stuff when they swim.
But on a positive note, it is a lot of fun even if you never went past Class III. Hiking trails and ski runs may get crowded, but the river always seems open and another boater is a welcomed sight.
roll practice is key.....
Thanks for the advice! I’ve rafted a bunch, strong swimmer, don’t panic easily.
Getting more excited. Sept 3rd is first lesson
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If you get into trouble, paddle. If you swim, do everything you can to hang on to your paddle. Start out with a boat that has softer edges if possible. Keep than chin tucked. Sounds like you’re doin everything right so far, enjoy it!
tell her the sups way cooler and better balance core ski training
otherwise good luck
oh and it aint white its more of a greenish brown and flat
but the bear is a cool way underused local waterway in a unique ecosystem
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...pshkwmklv0.jpg
https://hosting.photobucket.com/albu...pspmeidtrt.jpg
fontennelle would be another good teeth cuttin float
She’s already a SUP machine! Never been to bear lake...hard to believe.
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I swam the bear one time with a kayak accessory.
well thats ^^ a better sign than the vibe you were putting outQuote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
IME getting involved with a paddling club is usually a good ideas
That is Numero UnoQuote:
YOu gotta really wana do it if yer gona do it
Kayaking is great. I used to boat every day ranging from surf sessions to Vs to beer drinking class 2-3 runs with my buddies. Like a few here, being poor, paddling every day, renting a room from friends, being a very below average employee...some of the best times.
The learning curve can be steep but depends on what you want to get out of it. Learn a roll in a pool, figure out it's completely different in moving water, swim some, and then finally get one in the river. Pretty rad the first few times. Also boost confidence and you'll start trying more stuff.
The community of people is great. Pow doesn't get tracked, water just keeps flowing. There might be a couple people deep waiting for the wave but people cycle through fast.
I spend about 30 days a year in my raft now-beer, a cot, kitchen gear etc is more comfortable but I still try to get in my kayak a few days a year because I've lost the feel so it's a little scary and I get to learn again. You don't have to push boundaries to make it fun.
I'd say enjoy every minute of it. I bet it will be cool to watch your kid learn and pick it up yourself. My guess is she will learn faster and you'll get to be a proud pop while having some fun and spending time with her.
If you were close to me, I'd loan you everything you need. I wouldn't buy new but I wouldn't go super old either. The boat outfitting in the last 5-6 years is so much more comfy than in the past. You might be able to find stuff to borrow. If not, ksl or cl should have some deals on boat/skirt/paddles. It seems to be a sport people get into and then fall out of as people get older. Then a few years later they are tired of storing a big piece of tupperware in the garage and sell it all as a package. Run ideas by the group here.
OK, I’ll be the downer. Become aware of the ways people die on the river, if you aren’t already.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
One way is to get sideways up against a rock and have the current wrap your boat around the rock with you trapped inside. I almost accomplished this a couple times. It’s unbelievable how strong water pressure can be, even at moderate levels like class III.
Another way is flip over, and now your head and body, resembling a keel, is a lot closer to those rocks and other debris at the bottom of the river. Take a rock to the face and get knocked unconscious, or get caught in wedge between rocks or other debris. Good roll technique can minimize that danger, but not completely eliminate it.
Get caught in a back current on the other side of a weir or large rock. There’s a spot on the Guadalupe River in Texas called “Slumber Falls” that used to claim one or two lives per year, mostly drunk tubers. Being aware of the river will allow you to just avoid those places for the most part.
Trees in the water (sweepers and strainers). Yeah, stay away from those.
And also, hypothermia can be an issue.
Some of these hazards can be reduced by using a kayak you sit on top of, rather than inside. The last time I went, the outfitters only had “sit on” kayaks to rent. Not nearly as much fun, but fun enough for a beginner, at least, and a little bit safer. You might consider that option and renting for the first few times you go. If nothing else, to see if this is something you like.
All that said, it IS a hell of a lot of fun. But quite a bit more dangerous than skiing.
Don't sell this man on some lame fuckin sit-on-top!
He's got time to think about the safety things.
Yup, Sit-on-tops are very lame, I tried one in the surf, way too much volume of boat to try and control even if you know what you are doing
the rest of it is stuff you gotta learn which is why its a good idea to take a course and hang out with other boaters in a kayak club
No offense meant billyk but we’re not talking 0 to 60 here. Kayaking doesn’t have to be the equivalent of roping up to kick cornices off a pow line. Are there risks learning to whitewater kayak? Sure. The dude is talking about taking some kayak classes with his 9 yo daughter.
Yeah, sorry to be a downer. Probably things will be fine provided you stick with lower class levels and get lessons. But it is good to be aware, at least, of what can go wrong.
Spent a reasonable amount of time on rivers in rafts and canoes...I’m reasonably aware of the power of water
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Attachment 338983
Good times were had!
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It’s normally a lot colder.
The small boat looks good on her
how long is the paddle ?
Go to the Jackson website, JacksonAdventures, and get EJ's rolling/bracing video and his strokes and concepts video. Then spend lots of time on flat water/pool sessions learning it. When doing whitewater keep it to the class 2 stuff for a couple 2/3 years, she's only 9, last thing you want to do is get her scared, cause then it's all over for her. Join a club if there's one around you and take lots of lesson if you can. Kayaking is about as fun as it gets. Where do you guys live? I'm in Golden, Co and teaching my 8 and 12 year old. Psyched to see your daughter wants to kayak, as I think at last count there were only 23 people left kayaking in the U.S.
Just saw you live in Park City.
If you guys make it out to Colorado next summer hit me up and we can take the gets kayaking. I spend a lot of time on the Arkansas river and there is a lot of good class 2. PM sent with my phone #.
Thanks MCskid! We’ll try and get out! The 11 year doesn’t want anything to do with it....a bit more timid. Picked her up a small oar boat. I’ll PM ya back in a few.
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Detrusor,
I remember having a conversation with @Olympus about paddling with kids. His are older than mine but he was getting them going and they were having a blast. He lives in SLC and might have some gear available that his have grown out of. Hit him up via PM or let me know if you need an email address.
I have a boat rack full of we boats that could use some love. I would absolutely send some your way if I could figure out how to ship them cheaply. How big are you? I may have something that would fit and get you on the water.
I agree with meant others who have posted - we kayaking is awesome. Some of my best days were paddling with friends in high school and college. Like anything else it takes a measure of humility and respect for the power of water but as long as you can exercise that you'll be golden.
I ran an ACA kayak school during the summer when I was in college. I was always amazed at how quickly kids would get it in comparison to their older counterparts. I'm excited to get my own kids going next year.
Seth
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Rapids surfing etc are all cool but the grace and beauty of learning to nail the basics, ferrying, eddying in/out on moving flatwater, is a pretty cool life experience even if that is as far as it goes.
I started Kayaking while living in PC. Spent a fair amount of days on the mighty Weber.Quote:
Originally Posted by detrusor
Closest reliable WW was the canyon stretch of the Snake. Pretty mellow and playful above Blind Canyon with clean water that wasn't too cold.
Enjoy the ride.
Can you please tell me if the kayak is 62 cm wide enough for a beginner? Wouldn't it feel like sitting on a stool with two legs? I understand, of course, that everything requires skill and that it comes with experience. But I would like to go out on the river, especially at first, to be sure that you won't get burned in the water, if you just lose a little bit of vigilance. Or sit-on-top sentence for a beginner?
Got into the pool for my first session. Pretty damn fun! The wet exit is pretty easy, amazed at how responsive the boat is after rowing the raft. Looking forward to getting outside Friday.
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