France in spring: help planning

Mrs. C. and I have two weeks this spring where we have flights booked to/from Paris CDG -- and nothing else planned yet. Looking at guidebooks and overwhelmed by options.

Any France experts here who wouldn't mind helping plan a trip? We're thinking walking/sightseeing trip, using public transport (trains, not renting a car), not a ski trip. Mrs. C. has been to Provence before, I've never been to France. Planning on spending several nights in Paris to sightsee around there -- say, 5-6 nights there, with day trips nearby (Versailles?).

Loire Valley is pretty dope if you like castles and wine (and biking). But it is a bit more difficult if you're against renting a car. Orleans, Tours and Angers are the big cities, but their are a grip of quaint towns along the river -- Amboise, Chinon, Saumur, Ancenis, etc. Most of those have train access. The whole valley is covered by Loire a Velo -- a well marked and easy to use bike route that is country roads and bike paths. Relatively flat. Lots of bike rental companies do point-to-point style options. I did most the valley on bike in May a few years back and had good weather. Plus the big time tourist chateaus (like Chambord) are not that crazy busy then.

Keep in mind the amount of strikes happening currently. I'm not up to date on how it's impacting rail travel but it can be a PITA.

I'm not completely against a car rental, just would prefer to not spend much time driving.

Loire Valley looks great. Bike tours are usually something we'd do; Mrs. C. says she's not sure she wants to ride in traffic.

When in Paris, stay at the Le Petit Paris. The price is right. The location is perfect (right next to Luxumberg Gardens), and the hotel is fine. Make sure that you visit Sacre couer and the pompedeaux.

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Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

Loire Valley looks great. Bike tours are usually something we'd do; Mrs. C. says she's not sure she wants to ride in traffic.

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Traffic in the Loire is super minimal and nothing like riding in CO (you're in CO right?). People regularly drove 2 of their wheels off the road to give me ample space to pass.

I don't recommend riding out from Paris. Train out to Orleans and ride in a couple days to Tours, train back to Paris. Or Tours to Angers (even better wine country). Find a company that'll do point-to-point rides with luggage transfer (not uncommon -- or you can transfer luggage between rail stations inexpensively). When you're coming into/out of the big cities you have very good bike lanes or totally separate infrastructure.

I basically gave up bike touring in the US cause it blows compared to over there. If you go that way -- happy to answer any questions.

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IME truckers and buses cars all give way to the bike in France so its not like NA

I think on a bike I would want it warmer than spring weather but you never know

they have paved virtualy everything in France like I seen a paved acess road in a ski resort under the lifts going up the Col de tourmalet, on a 1:250000 Michelin guide map the white & yellow roads are paved & great riding stay away from red and i think orange its been awhile

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Originally Posted by schindlerpiste

When in Paris, stay at the Le Petit Paris. The price is right. The location is perfect (right next to Luxumberg Gardens), and the hotel is fine. Make sure that you visit Sacre couer and the pompedeaux.

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Thanks! For the times we're going to be there, price is $200+ US/night. Ouch.

doebedoe - thanks for the feedback on bike lanes etc. We're in NV; road riding here isn't the greatest. I'll look into a luggage transport/ bike inn-to-inn type tour.

Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I am not very enamored of Paris (though it's probably nicer if you have money to hose around). I would be more inclined to trim my stay in Paris and spend more time in other parts of France.

I've never biked in France but have toured in Spain and can confirm that in my experience motorists are very patient and polite with cyclists.

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Originally Posted by dan_pdx

Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I am not very enamored of Paris (though it's probably nicer if you have money to hose around). I would be more inclined to trim my stay in Paris and spend more time in other parts of France.

I've never biked in France but have toured in Spain and can confirm that in my experience motorists are very patient and polite with cyclists.

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I second this. Stay a night or two on your days from/to airport and really enjoy them. Make sure you find little backstreets with street food like savory crepes while you are touristing around. I liked exploring little towns with a car so much, I would pick a region (like Provence, I would go back) and just tour and figure where you stay on the fly.

Don't let the Paris haters get you down. You're going at a good time of year before the hoards show up in even crazier mass.

Just walk a ton. Realize the Champs is dumb AF. Often the quarters a bit less central are far more interesting. But it's hard to fuck with drinking a bottle of bubbles in a blooming Luxembourg gardens before a good dinner and a romp in the hotel room.

In spring, waves are good in Biarritz. I love that whole area in between Biarritz and San Sebastián. The land of Basque...Excellent caving

Lyon actually has better food. Not really worth visiting for anything else, but, the best food in France is certainly a pinnacle of sorts.

In Paris don't miss Sainte Chapelle--preferably late in the day on a sunny day when the light will be coming through the walls. (It's a small church essentially made of stained glass.)
We enjoyed Normandy and Brittany--Mont Saint Michel, the landing beaches, American cemetery, Bayeux tapestry, norman castles.
If you're into art Monet's house and garden in Giverny, pretty close to Paris. (And of course the Louvre and the Orsay but that goes without saying.)
Chartres Cathedral--probably the best preserved example of a Gothic cathedral in the world.
Also in Paris--Montmartre and Sacre Coeur, and Le Marais neighborhoods.
Neither Versailles nor the Loire Valley chateaux did much for me. I'm not into McMansions.

In Paris I like the Musée de l'Orangerie with Monet's large format lily paintings. We did a walking tour of the Latin Quarter and Île de la cité and a biking tour around the gardens of Versailles, both of which I'd recommend. The Atelier des Lumiéres is cool - had a Van Gogh show among others last summer. I'm still not sure what I think about the Catacombs but it was definitely interesting if not a bit macabre. I like staying around the 7th arondissment near Champ de Mars and if you're a foody go by Rue Cler.

Orsay museum in Paris a must.

Going to the top of the Eifel tower at night after drinking dinner was fun.

Lots and lots of ideas.... Keep them coming! Thanks everyone.

Many high speed trains service Paris. The experience alone is impressive to most Americans. You can be elsewhere quickly and comfortably from downtown, to another downtown. Day trips to various places are quite possible. Not too expensive, too.

Sexiest women in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Sexiest women in Europe.

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Ummm, the women of Milan were amazing our last trip, but I hear you. OP, your grousing over a $200 room in Paris? We go again in April and spent $400 a night for 5 nights because the last place we stayed is now $1k a night. :eek: Stop by and say hi if your there between March 31st and April 4th. :fm:

I forgot Musee Marmottan if you like Impressionists. It contains Monet's personal art collection as well as some of his works, including "Impression: Sunrise", the painting that gave Impressionism its name. It's small, out of the way, and much less crowded than the Orsay--although that was years ago. It's probably crowded like everything else these days.

Good timing. Spring, before the summer tourist rush, and more important, no Chinese. Gawd, are they a pain in the ass and take up room.

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Originally Posted by liv2ski

Ummm, the women of Milan were amazing our last trip, but I hear you. OP, your grousing over a $200 room in Paris? We go again in April and spent $400 a night for 5 nights because the last place we stayed is now $1k a night. :eek: Stop by and say hi if your there between March 31st and April 4th. :fm:

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I'm not paying $400/night anywhere. I'd cancel the trip before that

Mrs P and I spent an entire week in Paris in 2014 and loved it. We walked 12-15 miles per day using Everyman Mapguides as a general overview. We could have spent a month. The cafe culture is simply amazing.

In May we are headed to Provence to bike around for 8 days. We will fly in/out of Paris and will get to Versailles this trip.


We stayed at a 1 bdrm AirBnB in Le Marais and really enjoyed the central location.

Just did this trip in October. My wife had never been to Paris or France at all. I have spent a lot of time there. Thankfully, she totally fell in love and wants to go back soon.

If you hate cities, you might HATE Paris. There is literally no green space. Urban planning wasn't much of a thing before Christ, so the city kind of grew up around itself. If you see a tree, you are probably near the Seine. Other than major parks(gardens), there is only concrete, stone, and really cool old buildings.

The absolute best thing to do in Paris is BE in Paris. I can't really explain it. Just meld. Don't be American. Don't try to be French. Do TRY to speak French. The old stereotypes are gone, from what I saw. The best plan is to not have a plan. Have stuff you want to do and do it, but no plan, within reason.

Walk a lot. Take the Metro a lot. It amazed me the people that refused to take the Metro. THAT is where the city is. It is not too difficult. You get on the wrong train, you get off at the next stop and go the right way. A gypsy comes up begging, you move. Not scary at all.

Things I would actually plan out-
Louvre night tour- skip the lines, see the high points, drink wine and learn a ton about French wine culture in Les Caves du Louvre afterwards. Highly recommended.
Bateaux Mouches- night/ evening cruise. Best way to see a ton of the city, and from the water. The dinner cruise might be even better in the spring.
Musee D'Orsay- even if you think you don't like art, you will love this place.
Pont Neuf- because Pont Neuf.

We stayed in the 6th right next to Luxembourg Gardens at The Luxembourg Parc. That hotel was awesome. Looks like it will run about $300 a night in spring though. The location was perfect. Right near the Sorbone and Odeon, which is a super cool area. I credit most of our awesome experience on this trip to where we stayed. The area was decidedly un-touristy, and the people were really cool and young.

Anyway, here's some pics to get you stoked.

Luxembourg Gardens-
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...C4tKbfH-4K.jpg

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...CZknhMW-4K.jpg

Shakespeare and Co- old book store-
https://photos.smugmug.com/Euro-Trip...2c589Cv-X3.jpg

Sacre Coeur-
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...5nqZGf4-X4.jpg

Best sculpture in Paris-
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...vMxDzGn-X4.jpg

Well, maybe this one is slightly cooler-
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...wsjLfK4-X4.jpg

Les Caves du Louvre-
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...tvJZtRp-X4.jpg

Sous Le Pont
https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...nmmMmtn-4K.jpg

It depends on what you want to see and do. I am no French expert, but have been a couple of times. Since you have not been to Paris, a week there is minimal IMHO. Just the art alone will take up that time, and I still haven't been to the Louvre. A day in the Musée d'Orsay and the Musée de l'Orangerie is a must. I like the Rodin museum as well. Just walking the streets of Paris and eating/drinking in random cafes is a must. Obviously you won't get into Notre Dame, but it's worth the walk.around for the gargoyles.

Aside from Paris, I would pick a location and spend most of the rest of tour time
We did Bordeaux, and if you like that style of wine you can't do better. Rent bikes or go on tours. If you are a Pinot fan, choose Burgundy instead. Like to hike and be outdoorsy consider Chamonix or Annecy instead. France is a big country, don't try and see it all in two weeks. Pock two, or maybe three areas and enjoy what they have to offer. And yes, the TGV will get you places amazingly fast, though you will hardly notice. We hit some amazing speeds on the way to/from Bordeaux and other then reading the graphics you would never know. These ain't Amtrak.

Thanks again everyone! These are useful.

Re: types of things of interest - cities are fine, countryside too. Metro is fine. We've taken trains/metro and wandered around Florence, Venice, Prague, Budapest, Tokyo, and a bunch of US cities. No concerns about using public transport.

I think we're going to try to set up a self guided bike tour for a week or so, split the rest with Paris and surroundings.

I don't drink wine, Mrs C does - but not enough to build an itinerary around it.

I'm not a city person but there is something about Paris. The best thing to do is just walk until you need a drink/bite and stop in a cafe, rinse/repeat. I'll second the recommendation to use the metro, it's fast and easy. I've never experienced the famous French attitude towards Americans, every Parisian we interacted with was helpful and friendly.
We've been twice and never spent more than about $80 a night on hotels, but decent location and clean is all I care about. Stayed in the Latin Quarter and the Pigalle, preferred the Latin Quarter.

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I visited Languedoc-Roussillon last Fall. It's reachable by train from Paris. Not as touristy (or expensive) as Provence. It borders the Mediterranean, but also has some lovely hill towns & mountains. The Rhone River forms the eastern border & the Pyrenees/Spain the western border. Major wine region! We rented a car, driving/traffic wasn't bad, you get used to the roundabouts pretty quickly! :-)
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No open spaces in n Paris?

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Well, I’ve been to Paris 20 something times. I almost always stay at Le Hotel Bourdonnais. It’s a long story, but now I like it, it’s not a rip off, and my wife runs around the Champs de Mars and the Seine in the morning, it’s right next to a metro stop, etc.
Orsey and Rodin make a nice 2-fer, since they’re close to each other, then do something else. Marmottan is great, as is L’Orangerie, (it’s small, so a quick one). I actually am not a big Louvre fan cuz I don’t like bloody religious art. I like the castle/moat stuff they dug out below.
I like food. We often go hunt out a restaurant/bakery/patisserie and then do something nearby based on its location. We did the Bateau Mouche once, it was fine not our thing really, but it knocked off jet lag first morning once. I have no idea how into food you are, so I won’t go there. I also like to buy shit not available in the US. You may want to research things like that if that seems cool to you.

Try to visit the Catacombs. Total trip. Very cool but creepy.

The idea that Paris has no green space or urban design is bullocks. There are numerous incredible urban parks, waterways, and cemeteries. Go to any urban planning graduate school in the US or Europe and you're gonna spend a bunch of time talking about Haussman who radically reworked Paris and transformed thinking in urban design for over a century.

I'll echo that Sacre Coeur is an impressive site. If you happen to be left-leaning and of a literary persuasion -- David Harvey's essay on it make it all the more impactful.

How do you feel about drugs and sex parties? Because there was a brilliant mag at BBI-Euro last year from Paris that can probably lead you to the goods?

if you have never been to London or Paris go to London before Paris,

becuz London is quaint but Paris is grand ... London would be disappointing after Paris

a country road in France or the middle of Paris it delivers IME

Les Invalides is cool if you want to see Napoleon's Tomb, his stuffed horse, and how DeGaulle won WWII with help from the Resistance.

Having been there a number of times, and after travelling to other parts of the world that are "Touristy" a few tips.

When you do the Louvre and the Orsay, hire a guide. I know it sounds silly, when you can walk around and see all the stuff, but if you get a good guide they can cater to what you want to see, know the best spots in each museum, and many times they are art or history students or graduates and can give you a way better understanding of what you are looking at. We now do this at any major site(Vatican, Colusiem, etc) and it really makes the experience better.

Just walk around and snack as you go. If you are looking for a quaint little restaurant, we eat here every time we go and have sent many friends there as well. Never a bad review http://www.lepetitpontoise.fr/en/

Learn to use the subway, it makes getting around super easy if you don't want to walk everywhere.

Don't be afraid to be a tourist. Go up the Eiffel Tower, take a water taxi, buy a bottle of wine and drink it down on the canal, ride the Ferris wheel.

we did the "Free walking tours" in Yurp, just goggle free walking tours where ever you are

They are not really free cuz you are expected to tip but the guide is trying his best to make you happy cuz if his tour sucks you won't give him the tip.

You will usually get a grad student talking his way thru school who speaks good english so they are also good for local info

We liked Dijon a lot, easy train access, killer museum Musée des Beaux-Arts de Dijon, history of the Dukes of Burgundy, great restaurants, cool public market and train access to the Cote d'Or wine towns of Nuits St. Georges, Chambolle Musigny, Gevrey Chambertin, Volnay and Beaune.

Old Dijon has cool medieval buildings and streets.

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Originally Posted by doebedoe

The idea that Paris has no green space or urban design is bullocks. There are numerous incredible urban parks, waterways, and cemeteries. Go to any urban planning graduate school in the US or Europe and you're gonna spend a bunch of time talking about Haussman who radically reworked Paris and transformed thinking in urban design for over a century.

I'll echo that Sacre Coeur is an impressive site. If you happen to be left-leaning and of a literary persuasion -- David Harvey's essay on it make it all the more impactful.

How do you feel about drugs and sex parties? Because there was a brilliant mag at BBI-Euro last year from Paris that can probably lead you to the goods?

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I was mostly comparing it to London in my mind. I lived there for a while. Every other block there was a small/medium sized park. I personally prefer London, but Paris is really special. Central Paris has very little green space in comparison. My sister lives in Sceaux, just about a 25 minute metro ride, one stop from Orly. Now THAT area has a ton of green space.

Thanks again everyone! I booked a hotel for 5 nights in Paris -- staying at a Marriott Courtyard on points (really good redemption value), close to the Gare de Lyon railway station. 100K points + 28 Euros total.
https://www.marriott.com/hotels/trav...-gare-de-lyon/

Location looks pretty good for local attractions (Louvre etc) and for getting subway/train to farther away.

Enjoy. Beautiful city.