Whoa.
https://www.sierraavalanchecenter.or...ependence-lake
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Dam. Good work, staying alive. what with the beacon issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
Is that lake usually frozen in Mid-January?
YesQuote:
Originally Posted by Bunion 2020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
A little confusing to me. If they were at the toe moving up, wouldn't they have picked up a signal, especially with multiple people on search?Quote:
They performed a beacon search near the bottom of the debris pile but were not far enough down in the debris to get a signal. They were moving too quickly and believed I was upslope. They then hiked up the slope while performing a beacon search.They had made it about 800' vertical feet up the slide path by then and then began running back down to dig me out.
I read that as they stopped prior to getting to the lower end of deposition?
I read it as remainder of party was in a safe zone to side of path. They then entered debris from side and thought they were in close enough proximity to toe of the slide to eliminate it as a possibility and then headed uphill. Many transceivers have a single transmitting antenna and the distance at which it can be received depends on the orientation when it comes to rest. Familiarity and practice help when the shit hits the fan.
Statistically, where in the deposition zone is a buried victim most likely to wind up? Or is it completely random?
The bottom/area with highest deposition.Quote:
Originally Posted by old goat
I'm surprised that nobody (either in this thread or the Tahoe thread) has brought up the absolutely atrocious travel protocol. The drone video of the first two riders clearly shows that, other than the drone, nobody in the party had visual contact with the person skiing. If that first guy had gotten slid, trying to watch the slide on the tiny little drone screen would be the only way to have any idea where the guy got carried. Can't tell exactly where the first two riders grouped up while the third skied, but judging from the size of the terrain and a rough guess from looking at the tracks, I'd say there's nearly zero chance that they had eyes on the third rider, either.
But the drones man!Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
yea I guess they needed a second drone for the third guy. I had same take as adrenelated. I guess spotting your partners and using safe zones is a thing of the past. Glad this had a good outcome.
Compared to the sheer stupidity of trying to ski that line after the storm we had the day before, and the very well publicized shit snow layer it fell on, the details of sight contact kind of pales in comparison....so that might be why.Quote:
Originally Posted by adrenalated
Props to them for putting it all out there though. That person is right: sheer luck.
That was a drone? I thought it was a satellite they shot from so fucking high up.Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
And pretty fucking rude not to use the drone for the avalanche segment
thank youQuote:
Originally Posted by cmor
I hope those aren’t things of the past!Quote:
Originally Posted by BFD
There's a third video they didn't share. The original titles of the two shared videos were "X of 3". Curious why the didn't post it.
They probably want to sell the actual avy footage to someone is my guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1000-oaks
andrenalated hit the travel protocol failure on the nose.
Was the drone camera a contributor to their wanting to ski the whole line in a shot rather than take up mutually supporting positions in a safe zone leap frog?
i thought maybe the third skier was flying the drone. I guess there are follow drones so maybe it was filmed and you are correct.
Third skier was definitely flying the drone. A little stalking on his youtube channel though, and I think the drone he's using has follow capabilities, so definitely possible the slide was filmed that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by BFD
I almost added something to that effect. Having everyone stand out of the way at the top and riding in one shot definitely makes for sexier footage than using proper travel procedures.Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit
Have to agree with the above statements- I thought the "missing reel" of drone footage was highly suspect. Then remembered driving through town and hearing a local radio ad for a shop in the area doing a "winter edit" film contest, with a "best of" program and winner announced at a showing in Squaw towards the end of the season. $8k in swag to the winner.
Now if I was gonna bet a parking lot PBR...
This. Talking about their travel protocol is sort of a moot point with how dumb this all was.Quote:
Originally Posted by kidwoo
I mean, I guess good on them for filing a report but there wasn't much to learn from it.
If the drone was in follow mode, it would be quite the thing if it was hovering above his burial location. New safety device? ;)
I was thinking the same thing.
After I thought about how much $$$ in snow bikes and Drones these guys have and how they seem to have arrived, launched the drone and then just skied the avalanche path with very little in the way of any stability assessment.
I do wonder if in 10 years it will be SOP to have drones following us everywhere in the name of safety.
Well at least there is that. Better lucky than dead.Quote:
We made many mistakes yesterday. I know I am alive more from luck than anything else.
Or maybe he foundered his line like skier 2 and didn't want anyone else to see it....Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfy
^heh
Y’all see the outreach from the press on his YouTube channel? In the comments section.
Regarding analysis of their mistakes and decisions, maybe it’ll be easier to list procedures they did right. Here’s a start:
-one at a time. I’m surprised they did this considering other decisions they made and they were filming and playing with their toys. I mean watching jeremie and Sam ripping huge faces together from an aerial POV is rad...
-Wore transceivers
-Used transceivers to rescue buried person.
-Reported incident to local avi center.
This thread is getting weird.
I have been humping around in the general Tahoe basin since the the 1970's Before most of you fuckers were born.
they have lots of nice toys. got to some A+ terrain. And seemed to manage the risk at a much higher lever than most out there on any given day.
And you nit pick, about something you really know nothing about.
Just say "THANK YOU" And STFU because you don't really know.
FYI
I wear A beacon. And I ski alone. = Scoop me up in the spring? It's what most of us do.
Disclosure. My leg is so fucked up. I cannot hike anywhere. "But I used too"
STFUYFM. Thanks. :smile:Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
I actually agree with glademaster here. When your doing it right yo are not walking 800 vert back up the slope looking for your partner. The importance of spotting on big lines and having a known last seen point is something that should always be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
Yeah props on posting that on the avy centers website. As well as acknowledging that if things had been a smidge different the poster would have been dead.
I ski that mountain every winter and see that slope even more times every winter. As do a lot of folks that do snowpack observations and avy forecasts as paid employees.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Deciding to come down it, go straight towards the most wind loaded edge of it, on a day after hours and hours and hours of 100mph+ winds on an icy bed layer that's the worst of the bad since it faces south, was absolutely moronic. And I bet they would tell you the same thing today.
They're the ones that got caught in a big slide on a day rated with a considerable danger rating, after multiple days of the avy center warning about this exact scenario before it happened.
That slope rips all the time on days that aren't considerable with a very well documented shit layer sitting underneath snow less than 24 hrs fallen. Go hike out there in the summer some time and look at the broken off trees that litter the bottom of that gully.
So I disagree. Some people do know a few things that the party involved might not.
Bodywhomper is right too. Props to them for not hiding with the event. Both can be simultaneously true.
I don’t see how they managed any risk. From what I can tell, they were oblivious to the risk.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
Heal up, MTT
What on earth are you talking about here? Uhh... no. Just no.Quote:
Originally Posted by MTT
With the tragedy at Alpine Meadows, it brings to light how uncertain and sometimes down to 'luck of the draw' it all can be. I'm glad these guys are OK after this and hope many others will learn from this 'event' because they did report it. It sounds like the Sierras are getting unusually touchy conditions which is more normal in the San Juans. Be careful out there.
The drone imagery is interesting but it'll get real old if everyone starts flying these things in the backcountry and basically everywhere else.
To be fair the first two weren't standing right in the middle of the gully dropping m-80s on the snow, and with their pants down mooning the third guy.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
I mean it could have been worse.
In all seriousness though, I'd be curious to ask one of them what they were thinking going down a south aspect. If the fact that it faces south had anything to do with it or just coincidence because that's the longest sustained pitch back there.
I think that would take a long time or legislation. Look how much gopro footage is still being produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpinord
It's fine to talk about what they did right. But we also talk about what mistakes they made. We should always look at accidents with the mindset of "what can I learn here? how do I not end up like that? what kept it from being worse?"
1 by 1
True safe zone (just not one that was mutually supporting)
Gear
Good Reporting (and a pretty good mea culpa in the writeup)
I think it's notable that us folks who aren't from the zone picked up on the travel protocol failures while the people from the zone who knew the conditions picked up on the poor terrain choice given the a snowpack problem at the time.
I can’t stand encountering the recreational use of drones in the backcountry.