Word is something slid off 9990 at canyons/pcmr. Even tombstone closed. Praying all are safe.
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Word is something slid off 9990 at canyons/pcmr. Even tombstone closed. Praying all are safe.
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From Summit County Sheriff:
“Sad Update - A 45 year old man from Salt Lake City has died after being buried in a backcountry avalanche. We offer our sincere condolences to the family. #backcountry #avalanche”
This sucks. Vibes to family and friends.
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Also, from Sheriff earlier:
“We are currently working a backcountry avalanche near the ski resort with one confirmed burial. The single snowboarder has been dug out. Life saving efforts are in progress. This is NOT in the ski resort. More details to follow.”
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https://utahavalanchecenter.org/avalanche/48826 <- preliminary report up
Vibes to his family/friends.... skied those zones over the years when we lived in PC. From the UTAVY instagram post, the victim had No Avy Gear.... Know Before You Go
weird there's still only the preliminary report given they were supposed to be on scene yesterday and there is a certain urgency or time sensitivity to this info (for people still recreating in the area).
At the bottom of today's forecast (wrong place for it but still) they haveQuote:
Originally Posted by powdork
so I guess that means they won't get to the full analysis until sometime laterQuote:
Yesterday, while investigating the recent avalanche accident along the Park City ridgeline we traveled along the ridge to the top of the slope. Standing there, we looked at the last six turns a 45 year old snowboarder made and stood in silence.
After a couple of minutes four avalanche professionals debated if we should descend the slope to take a look at the avalanche and investigate the crown and layering of the slide. With some discussion we all determined the upper 1/4 was low enough angle (30°) to safely descend. However, the slope midway down pitched to 33° degrees in steepness and we all felt very uncomfortable with the danger of triggering a slide there. Collectively, we decided it was too unsafe to descend the slope to look at the avalanche. We walked back to the resort safely along the ridgeline and descended a southerly aspect to the flats below. Now in the run-out zone we also determined it was too risky to enter from below because of the overhead hanging snow and the possibility of triggering another avalanche remotely (from a distance).
(etc etc)
That makes sense, but does that mean that The Canyons or some other organization (WPB) is prohibited from mitigating the remaining danger in order to allow the investigation to proceed? I know that is done in other areas.
I have to disagree with the idea that there is any sense or urgency here, given what is known about the snowpack on the PC/BCC ridge and the history of that particular area. RIP.
i had that thought when i was writing it and went back and added the 'time sensitivity'. If investigating these things is important at all, it is better to do it sooner both to get the info out sooner and because the evidence decays rather quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
Also, reading the report was the first time I ever heard about graupel pooling under cliff bands as a potential hazard. Good info.
is there some sort of scientific urgency to investigate the slide conditions in the current state? yes, certainly one would acknowledge that conditions change quickly etc and if you wanted to get most accurate and timely information, it would need to be collected quickly.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
BUT, are you suggesting that the ski area (or "some other org" ?) perform avy control on a backcountry slope in order to do this research?
as far as i'm aware, Utah resorts haven't done this sort of thing and i personally wouldn't think it would be even on the list of options. if it was a rescue/recovery mission...maybe and perhaps likely yes, but a simple post-mortem research mission to confirm what we already know? ehhhh....not likely.
backcountry is backcountry. gotta keep treating it as such.
edit to add, i appreciated Staples' video review, as posted above. RIP
A known existing weak layer.
2" H2o with strong winds.
A human triggered avalanche.
Maybe you underestimate the amount of explosive-based control work done by heli and cat skiing operations in terrain that is the "backcountry."Quote:
Originally Posted by jmedslc
Powderbirds used to bomb quite a bit in their tenure, is that not the case any more?
I've certainly read accident reports that clearly state that explosive-based control work (or use of something like the Daisy Bell) was performed to allow investigators to safely access the accident site. I can't recall any specifically in Utah, but it absolutely does happen.
Not saying it should have here, I was just pondering if it was an option.
No random tossing charges in the bc as a means of back country snow stability testing
Is thankfully no longer part of the powder turds mo
They still do contract work for udot it and the resorts
Afaik
millions of ball bearingsQuote:
Originally Posted by powdork
G.G. LiddyQuote:
Its all Ball Bearings these days.
I've seen graupel pooled under cliffs preserved with a crust over it. Was pretty strange and caught me off guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
Not the first time that condition has killed someone in the Wasatch. The most famous incident is the death of Roman Latta in Wolverine Cirque in 1993, but I'm sure there have been others.Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
not sure about underestimating... i live in utah and i'm not aware of resorts doing avalanche control in backcountry areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by glademaster
yes, WPG used to do 'slope testing' w explosives, but as noted by SFB, maybe it's not used anymore. i'm not sure about that. got a buddy i could ask, i guess.
come to think of it, i haven't seen maynerd's bare ass on a ridge in wasangeles in a while. eheheheheheheh
what is this?
^ski forum
Heard a short presentation on graupel acting as a weak layer last year from SAC. Steve wrote a paper on it and presented it ISSW. They used the deep slab cycle in Mt Rose area in March of 2018 as an example. In short...
https://arc.lib.montana.edu/snow-sci...2018_P11.4.pdfQuote:
Graupel is very common in our maritime snow climate. The combination of graupel and melt freeze crusts interact with each other from year to year with, for the most part, short lived avalanche instabilities. At this point, I could not find any other data to show that a graupel layer has ever persisted for more than a couple days. The SnowPilot data points to graupel as being a relatively safe layer with lower occurrence and less unstable stability ratings compared to other weak layers. This graupel event in March 2018 seems to be a rare occurrence. Though it has occurred and should be added as one more variable that is possible to affect snow stability
https://www.sierraavalanchecenter.or.../se-relay-peak
I’ll let someone else post the video or the dude that took it may be on here. But new snow avy triggered in Dutch draw just skiers right of death a few weeks back. Fully caught on camera from bottom. Rider was clueless he triggered it, almost skied or boarded back into slide. The idiots are strong out there. This will be a good training video.
posted by the utah av center
https://www.facebook.com/Utah.Avalan...t=feed_comment
He's skied there for twenty years and he didn't know it was steep enough to slide.
I've never lived anywhere near there, but have heard of all that have died.
Insightful, thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
You know I'm referring to the comments from the skier in the video just posted, right? Not the guy that died
Point is, how do you ski there for 20 years and
1. go out of bounds without avy gear.
2. not have heard about the fatalities there
3. not realize the slide path you're on is steep enough to slide
We talk about how folks should realize there's no such thing as sidecountry, it's all backcountry once you leave the gates. My feeling is that sidecountry is way more dangerous than backcountry because of folks like him in the mix.
No question in my mind that lift serviced high angle backcountry is the most dangerous because of easy access to Gerrys. I think that riders who earn their turns visit avi sites, dig pits, know when to stay low angle and respect conditions. To many riding places like Dutch Draw and Square Top just want to brag about schralping gnar. These are the ones who are looking for trouble
Exactly. "Didn't think it was steep enough to slide" but there were 2 slides right there in the last f'in week. What kind of rock do you live under to not know that there was a fatal avalanche just outside the resort you are skiing at?Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
^^^ Human nature.
"It can't happen to me."
Had a buddy killed across the road from Alta. Snowboarding solo during considerable hazard.
At different times a bunch of us all had the talk with him about riding solo.
He simply did not believe what he was doing was hazardous.
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/19...-in-avalanche/
Information is so much more readily available these days, but man, I'm lucky to have survived 18-19 years old. I skied the slack country with reckless abandon, because I had no idea. Point is, we all did dumb shit and most of us were lucky enough to get away with it.
true, but i was drunk as fuck at the time (meaning the period from 17-21)Quote:
Originally Posted by zion zig zag
Yep. I've seen touchy slabs at the base of Crescent Couloir that wanted to slide on a graupel layer. Happens at the toe of coolies too.Quote:
Originally Posted by powdork
RIP
^that makes sense since it seems the entire time you're booting up one you're watching the stuff roll down past you