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Winter has passed so time to buy.
Tired of getting cold w/gore-tex shell over nano air. Looking for warm down jacket for -10 to 10-ish. Seems like most brands like 800 fill; is that warm enough? Can layer it with the nano air.
Really like the Sync Performance Shelter Parka but $300 on sale is not too enticing. https://www.syncperformance.com/coll...nt=41732063630
What are the colder climate skiers using for insulated jackets?
Flylow colt down is what I use for snowmobile skiing under -15 C. Works fine for light touring as long as you move slow. If I am only riding lifts (i.e. no hiking etc), I wear it with just a thin wool hoody and bibs. Highly recommended and can be found cheap.
When you see 650, 700, 800 etc. that is the fill POWER. 800 and 850 are pretty much the highest quality down, which means it takes less fill WEIGHT to achieve the same warmth as a 650 fill power garment. A 650 fill power and 850 fill power jacket can provide the same warmth, but the 650 will be heavier and bulkier.Quote:
Originally Posted by esseff
Idk just felt like clearing that up. I have a friend with a really nice 850 fill jacket who complains about how its not warm and how its a rip off but its because its a paper thin backpacking sweater, not a heavier ski parka. Drives me mad.
Good info, thanks. So on this Stio the reference for 800 would be weight, not power, right?
https://www.stio.com/products/mens-h...-hooded-jacket
So how do you avoid your friends situation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeleBeaver
800 is the fill power, which basically rates the quality of the down. Fill weight would be in ounces or grams. That jacket probably has like 12oz of down in it. Its a bit frustrating because manufacturers don't always list the fill weight. Going by the overall weight of the garmet doesnt tell the whole story either because of different nylons, hoods, zippers, etc. You can judge how warm they are going to be by how "puffy" they look. That one has some medium sized baffles and looks pretty thick. I had a similar style jacket from LLBean that was super toasty, and it looks similar to the patagonia down sweater jacket. I know it would have to be damn cold for me to ski with that under a shell (I run pretty hot) but it might be what you're looking for if the nano air isn't keeping you warm enough.
Total depth of loft and materials are the determining factor for warmth; if I remember correctly, the fill power is as follows :
1 ounce of down is weighed out and allowed to loft fully. Then it’s volume is measured, and the 600, 700, 800, etc refers to how much volume that ounce occupies. Higher fill power lofts deeper and compresses more per ounce, and indeed is a measure of quality. If you want a substantial feeling coat, low fill power is fine. If you want the maximum warmth, combine high fill power with sturdy shell materials. If you want super light and packable, high fill power with light shell construction.
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I go with 2 down jackets one lighter and one heavier
https://rab.equipment/ca/mens/insula...ino-pro-jacket
this is the heavier^^ I got this for when its colder than -15C, it will be $$$ but if you paly your cards right you can find them discounted by 40%
https://www.evo.com/outlet/down/faction-galileo-jacket this is my lighter jacket for < -15, it s got 2 huge inner pockets so ... great for shop lifting eh which offsets the $$$ all this shit will cost you
if you are patient and wait they all go on sale for 40 % off
PS - I bought two 800 weight Solomon down jackets maybe 9 years ago at TJ Maxx. $80 each. Available in the fall.
The other thing that determines warmth is the construction--sewn through vs box baffled. Sewn through means the inner and outer layers are sewn directly to each other, which is cheaper and lighter but creates cold spots at each seam. Box baffles mean the inner and outer layers are connected at each down tube with separate strips of fabric, so no cold spots. (I had a parka with a third construction--double quilted. Basically two sewn through layers with the fat spots on one layer lying over the seams of the other. Very heavy, very warm. I used it once--it kept me alive bivouacing on Mt Washington at --30F/ 100-140MPH wind.
If you want to compare 2 down jackets you have to look at fill weight (how much down), fill power (how good the down is), construction, overall weight, and price. Or if you're not going to Mt. Everest, buy a cheaper one on sale and hope for the best.
The Arc’teryx Thorium makes for a pretty good (mostly) down skiing jacket because it has strategically placed synth insulation where moisture tends to crop up. Moisture is the problem with skiing in down, and since thickness/loft and construction are primary determinants of warmth, you might consider a thiccer synthetic jacket for skiing.
That said:
https://www.backcountry.com/arc-tery...ar-jacket-mens
Bought a Patagonia Primo Down jacket last fall and couldn't be happier, gore tex with 800 fill down was warm, dry and windproof. For me, it's good to ~15* F, any warmer and I'll wear a shell with an R1 pullover and wool base layer.
define skier?
for skiing the hill I very seldom use a down jacket unless its very fucking cold to the point I probably won't be skiing it anyway but if I do wear down I wear a gortex shell over top because the wind comes thru down , most of the time you are sitting there on the chair doing nothing so you need to be warm & windproof also down jackets get ripped up tagging trees ... not very crash proof
At the hill I usually wear a cheaper parka with some kind of DWR outer fabric & synthetic insulation, add some extra fleece layers depending on how cold it is, IME what you wear for alpine skiing is not all that hard to figure out or core ... just wear more layers
Touring is a different app, this is where I use the core stuff, so your clothing has to breathe to deal with the exertion so I will wear soft shells and either the lighter or the heavier down jacket over top which come off soon as i have warmed up after 5 or 10 min and I put them back on as soon as I stop
I just wish somebody would make an up jacket.
Not a fan of insulated jackets, but a big fan of these layers, at least for sunny dry climates like CA and UT:
- Short-sleeve 150 wt merino t-shirt
- Long-sleeve 150-200 wt merino 1/4-zip
- 150 wt merino bottom (add a second 200 wt bottom if it's really cold out)
- Backcountry / Stoic Hadron 850 fill down vest (7 oz)
- Western Mountaineering Quickflash 850 fill down shirt/jacket (8 oz)
- WPB shell of your choice
The two ultralight down layers have lots of loft but weigh almost nothing and are easily compressed in a small pack or vest. This gives you the options of wearing only the merino base layers under your shell when nice and sunny (strap the shell to your pack when skinning), add the vest under shell if it gets cooler, replace vest with Quickflash if even colder, and wear both down pieces under shell if the temp drops to zero and 50mph wind or you get stuck out overnight. (I err on the side of wearing too little insulation to avoid sweating, so if you run cold consider thicker down layers with more fill.)
If you're day touring or hitting sidecountry, you could also add Western Mountaineering Flash pants (6.5 oz) to your pack to make an unexpected night out a lot more pleasant. Add a Nunatak Down Balaclava (3.5oz) and you'll have high-loft down insulation from head to ankle at only 25 oz total, which is about the same weight as a single thick fleece pullover that only covers your torso, is either on or off, and takes up a ton of room in your pack if you're not wearing it.
Your wallet will also be lot lighter with down, but you only need to buy the stuff once, preferably during Summer sales or used off fleabay.
I second the above wool layering and two downs for non-tent touring.
But I replaced my vest with a down T years ago. Montbell.
Now I use a full size Windstopper & a down T.
Windstopper under goretex in blizzards skiing chairs is the tits.
Their Down T is the most versatile piece I’ve ever owned. So I’ve owned two of them now after wearing the first one for 8 years and it feeling a bit greasy. ;-).
I have an arcteryx fisson sv and it is insanely warm. Warmer than youd ever need. Worn about 5 times till i realized its too much for me. Black size L
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Honestly, I found that one of the warmest layers is a good old fashioned, non-ski specific, thick, ratty, thrift-store type wool sweater under a strong shell. There's a reason mountain sheep can stay warm at altitude. The ski-specific merino wool always ends up thin, and any of the feather-filled layers are thin and end up ripped by trees.
What has been a game-changer for resort skiing on those cold, <5 degree Fahrenheit days with wind hasn't been the jacket - it's the pants. It's hard to layer too much under ski pants, so I ended up buying a pair of snowmobile pants from Castle X (epic pants) with suspenders for about $200. They're incredibly well made and come with a warning that they're not to be used as a flotation device because they're that padded. They're articulated and are quite easy to ski in, but I feel toasty while everyone's freezing.
Patagonia Premodown for the sub 0 days.
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I have a west comb Kokanee hoody. Super lofty and 18oz makes it an extremely lightweight super warm jacket. I don’t use it to ski here in Utah though and it often sits untouched because it’s “too warm” for me.
I have a dumb question about down jackets… can they go over your shell/wind-shirt for frigid resort skiing or do they need to go under?
I have a BD Vision belay jacket that won’t fit under any shell I own but was cheap enough I don’t mind risking some tears.
enough with the stereotypes
Only an issue if it is wet out. The down jacket may wet out and lose the down lofting (insulating quality).
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I’m not too worried about moisture if it’s below 0F. I really mean frigid days when anyone with any sense stays home.Quote:
Originally Posted by bodywhomper
I know it’s stupid but I didn’t know if wind caused the down to lose a significant portion of its insulation or something. Like you had to trap the warm air in the insulation.
Yes, this is the vibe.Quote:
Originally Posted by SKIP IN7RO
I freeze my ass off below 0F and wanted to use what I already own.
yes, belay type jackets are designed to be worn over a shell.
For touring typicaly I wear down over soft shell over base layer. The soft shell might be better over the down to keep that heat in but I'm losing the down or putting it on lots so too much hassle for touring so I just take off/ put on the that top down layer at stops as needed
For Lift riding I'm mostly sitting on a chair so I put all the insulation layers under the shell layer
if down on the outside works for you then it works