Do you even train Bro?
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Do you even train Bro?
It's that just wrestling with shaved pubes?
No. That would be banging your old lady.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Nah, it's wrestling where it's ok to pull someone on top of you and hug them.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Wrestling is 1/2 of BJJ. I love when wrestlers come to the gym. It's so fun to strangle the ego out of them. Give them a clean look at a single leg and just triangle choke the afternoon away. Good times.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
I've tried it. The whole first year is basically just trying to survive. Once you can survive for awhile then you learn how to try and escape.
I prefer skiing.
It is very challenging. That's why I always liked grappling. Weak humans quit.....or become strong humans. Most quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by wicked_sick
could we get a dick measuring sub forum?
Same old dave.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is one of the main reasons the Brazilian armed forces are feared and respected around the world.
Like most South American countries their armed forces are only in feared within their country.Quote:
Originally Posted by iceman
Dave is very scawy though.
I'd be more into Defendu. Obecive is to kill, not to maim or merely injure.
Yeah, because clearly martial arts is all about dick measuring. There's a UFC thread so I figured maybe there were some other players....guess not.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Or strangling the ego out of weak humans... apparently.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
You sound like the Kevin Kline character in A Fish Called Wanda..
Not sure you're saying that wrestling is half as awesome, or it makes up half of BJJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
Most forms of wrestling focus predominantly on the takedown (e.g. Freestyle, Greco, and even more so Sumo, Mongolian, Turkish, Senegalese, etc.). American Collegiate/Folkstyle is pretty balanced compared to most. Even thought the US has more people involved in youth wrestling than any other country, this has prevented us from being the best internationally. In this country we spend too much time on the mat as kids to develop the technique that you see in the Russians or Iranians. I think we should scrap Folkstyle wrestling altogether and focus on Freestyle. An awesome throw should be worth 5 points.
BJJ comparatively ignores the takedown. This is a great equalizer for the old and the unathletic, which I should appreciate given my age and decreasing athleticism, but when I've "rolled" with BJJ guys I could't help thinking "this is the part of wrestling you've chosen to focus on?" The choking and bone snapping part is cool, I guess, but the falling on your back part pisses me off. I was also surprised how quickly guys ten + years younger than me would get gassed, then just lie down against a half-broken man pushing 40 (at the time). You don't develop the same fitness when you're on your back/knees. That said, the overall intensity and mastery is much better in BJJ than the judo clubs I've been to. If I ever need to move away from mountains I can see myself getting into it. It's not like my body can handle wrestling any more.
Wrestlers are not weak. They just don't understand submissions. Weak humans quit wrestling as well. I m not talking about physical strength and I almost never tap lower belts unless they roll with way too much strength and no technique..Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
..like every wrestler to ever come into a bjj gym myself included. I got mercilessly choked for a good 6 months before I figured it out.
This thread reminds me of giving oneself a nickname.
Wrestling techniques make up half of what JiuJitsu encompasses. BJJ does not ignore the take down. Judo is a part of JiuJitsu, and includes single legs, double legs, Hi Crotch entries, fireman's carries, ect. As well as all the grecco and freestyle throws including back arch techniques. Sombo was simply a russian who learned jiujitsu/judo in japan and went back to russia and taught it to a bunch of Russian wrestlers.Quote:
Originally Posted by I've seen black diamonds!
The IBJJF has made a rule set that does not penalize the guard pull. It has made for some very weird gi tendencies like double guard pulling. Other organizations like the ADCC have changed the rules and you don't see it at their events. In either case the IBJJF or ADCC is not JiuJitsu.
If you were a wrestler and went to a BJJ gym to roll, and the point of the roll is to submit the opponent, as it is, then the BJJ guy took the fight to the place he had the most advantage. Contesting the take down is dangerous, and ending up in bottom side control can suck against a wrestler because they understand pressure and control so sitting guard was to their best advantage, sounds like a good game plan. While I did enjoy freestlyle and grecco a lot more than folk style wrestling I think American Folk Style mat wrestling is awesome and would be a better preparation into full fledged submission wrestling. The tendency it teaches to go down to our stomach an obvious disadvantage in real world self defense, the pressure and control, even more so for leggers, directly translates where as the mat work in freestyle and grecco is almost completely detached from wrestling roots as a combat sport in pancration.
I would disagree about the state of Freestyle and Grecco in the states vs abroad. We are consistently in the top 3 globally and have had many many international champions and icons. I think what gives Russia and Iran and the region in general the advantage is they are less removed from conflict and combat as part of their life and culture. Wrestling is their Football. As you can see above, our culture does not value this anymore as compared to ball sports.
BJJ has been as awesome way for me, also to old to hold up the rigors of wrestling practice, to continue to study and evolve as a grappler. I wrestle for position and use jiujitsu for submission. Good schools do not differentiate between wrestling and bjj, but there are a lot of not so good schools out there and there is quite a bit of animosity between the two arts in some places. I certainly felt it when I started, but now as a brown belt I realize it was because I was showing up to show what I knew as a wrestler vs BJJ and not to learn BJJ. That is the wrestler ego that I got choked out of me. Yes I could take down everyone in the gym, and then they would strangle and joint lock me to death so what good was the take down?
The wrestling is the hardest part to learn and most BJJ players won't have the time or interest to do the drilling needed to have tight take down games. When BJJ incorporates strong wrestling it becomes a very difficult skill set to deal with. I love it all.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X3BRF69w2s
One of the styles I train is called Arnis Jitsu, which is a combination of Modern Arnis (filipino MA that I train) and more traditional Jiu Jitsu. We do pull A LOT of BJJ into our ground game. I really like training with BBJJ practitioners as I learn great techniques. We likely don't roll as much as BJJ schools (at least the ones I've visited) though I try to roll as much as I can. We focus as much on lock flows (borrow a lot from empty handed techniques of Modern Arnis and Kubotan Jiu Jitsu) from the feet and takedowns. We also bring knives and strikes into our ground work as we advance, but I don't know if BJJ does that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
When it comes to wrestlers I think their learning curve is a lot less steep than non-wrestlers as they already have weight distribution techniques down. We have a couple wrestlers training with us. One is less than half my age at 20 and has a good 60 lbs. on me. When he first started I could tap him out, but after a year training with us now it is all I can do to hold my own. In fact he just entered a submission only grappling tournament in Milwaukee, WI last month, which was his second tournament and won his weight class (230 lbs.) at blue belt with I think an heel hook.
I'm currently working on chokes for my next promotion. Chokes kind of freak me out, because they are so quick and if I'm rolling with a guy that doesn't like to tap it could go bad.
I'm lucky to train with a high level Silat guy so we do blade work. We box, kickbox, and do stick work borrowing from indonesian martial arts. Chokes seem more safe to me than joint locks. If people don't tap it's not important to me to convince them too. If they go to sleep in class no big deal, If I tear an acl, rotator cuff, and fracture an elbow it's not so good. If I have a lock and someone won't tap I will use it to transition to a choke. People might take a pop to the knee or elbow....but everyone goes to sleep when there's no blood flow to the brain. :) I imagine you are not learning gi chokes? So Guillotines, back chokes, Triangles, arm triangles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Grange
Blades are the most terrifying aspect of conflict to me. With a good knifer, you'll never even know he's armed until your guts fall out and you paint the walls red.
Pffft. I’m a black belt in RunFu.
Damn DaveTV you are a brown belt? You must have a great ground game. I'll be going for my brown belt in Arnis Jitsu this year though our brown belt is really quite different than a BJJ brown belt. I'd guess my grappling techniques are maybe on par with a competent BJJ blue belt or if I'm really lucky a newer purple belt.
I'm going for my black belt this year in Modern Arnis and we always say that if you get into a knife fight no matter how good you are you are likely to get cut. I remember we were doing a live drill with training knife that you can put chalk on so you'll know where you got cut. My sensei came at me and by the time I dis-armed him I had several slashes with the most alarming one was along my neck over the carotid artery.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
I'm supposed to teach class tonight If the weather allows me to make it to the dojo and I'm planning on working some knife drills.
I train with a gi. For chokes air chokes are fairly easy, but the blood chokes are the ones I'm working on. Some are much easier than others, but for some reason a basic cross lapel choke has gotten me frustrated. I can get eventually but in live rolling I tend to miss my mark more than others.
Break the wrist, walk away.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
I do OK. I was a pretty tough wrestler back in Jersey and wrestled at some high level programs. I was a red shirt at Clemson when they were a top ten program, behind an all american when they canceled the program due to title 9 compliance issues. At that point I had been grinding for 10 years year round and quit to do other fun stuff for almost 15ish. A friend showed me some BJJ and I got hooked again. I feel like my ground game might be caught up with my take down game. I think I'm going to masters worlds this summer before my next promotion. I haven't competed much in BJJ but feel like I need to measure up in real event before someone tries to put a black belt on me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grange
Things must be slow in ECRC.
I assume you mean from the front. Okuri juji jime is pretty strong, but Giaku, Kata, and Nami really depend on a deep entry in my experience. Great combination attack with an arm bar. The collar chokes are easily defended, but open up an arm bar attack. When they lock their hands to defend the arm bar you can bounce back to the choke. This can all happen without ever releasing the deep collar grip. No one jiu jitsu attack works. They have to come in combination to be effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grange
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71EZLc-vyXw
I currently live in Brazil and started training a few months ago - wish I had started earlier. It’s been a humbling yet rewarding experience so far. Most of my time is drilling movements and functional training so far - need to learn how to walk before I can run. I enjoy that it’s challenging both physically and mentally - the black belts say the learning never stops, BJJ is constantly evolving. Recommend anyone to drop into a local school for an introductory class - I think most people would be pleasantly surprised.
Damn freezing rain made the roads treacherous so no training tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveVt
That's a nice transition I'll have to give it a go at open mat this weekend. As I grow with grappling I am definitely working on looking ahead and trying to set up moves. The one transition I am currently working on is going from an arm bar attack like the video above into a triangle.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOvtUZpBNyU
I like going to triangles from the back over mounted triangles from arm bar as in numbers 2 through 5 in that video. I also like 7 when I m stuck on someone's quarter guard.
Which one is best for mountain lions?
The one called Kill the Lion. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe4d_Pa8WkY
Never bring a knife to a gun fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNWbrit
Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Rex Kwon Do
^Running joke at our club. "Take My Doe" is what the Mc DoJos are known as.
I'm going to an annual seminar this month where we train different martial arts, self defense and knife drills with some pressure testing. A couple years ago we set up the situation with knife vs gun at close range. When the gun wielder had the gun point at the knife wielder it wasn't close, but if they were both holstered it was a lot more interesting and knife wielder got to have some fun. One of the instructors was a retire cop that talked about drawing a gun and he was also proficient with a knife. Add in tips from some of the Escrima and Modern Arnis instructors about the knife and the drill was a great.Quote:
Originally Posted by hutash
Dealing with hand guns at close range is interesting. Inside 20 feet you'd better be real good getting your gun out, specifically in a concealed carry situation. That distance can be closed quickly enough that a concealed gun is basically useless and against a trained martial artist will likely just get used to kill you in the end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grange
Dave, any thoughts on how a handgun, or knife wielding martial arts artist would fare against a blowgun w/ a curare tipped dart at various distances? My understanding is that curare takes ~1 minute to act on the central nervous system. If I'm correct this may allow the some time for the handgun owner or martial artist to inflict some bodily harm on the blow gunner if attacked within a certain distance.
Well, if it were me I would take the blow gun and shove it completely up your ass. Then, as I put my blade to your throat your fear-puckering rectum would suck the poison dart into your bowel and the curare would act fast, through the mucus membrane much like those old hobos giving themselves a wine enema at a rainbow gathering. In the end I would leave your corpse in a public bathroom and the authorities would assume you died of some auto-erotic fetish gone wrong. I walk away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Timberridge